Multiple balls with same layout

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Ryan5508
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Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

Sorry in advance if this is vague. I am new to taking more of an interest into serious bowling.

I currently have two balls drilled. A DV8 deviant pearl and a Storm timeless. Both are similarly drilled for finger tips with inserts(sorry I have no idea on measurement's). Pin up around an inch and over from the ring finger an inch. around a 5 inch spread from thumb to fingers. The Timeless is the same but has a balance hole. I can add a picture of it later today.

I just purchased a Storm Sure lock and would like some recommendations before I drill it.

I am naturally speed dominate stroker with low revs. I tend to stay behind the ball allot. Average around 17.5mph at the pins. I am currently working on slowing down to help get more hook and better release. If I stay around 16mph at the pins I have a much more pronounced hook and score better.

Would you recommend based off my little information that I drill the ball similar to the timeless with a balance hole? I like the way the ball rolls just need some extra hook for a few places I currently bowl at. They tend to do a poor job cleaning there back ends. My deviant runs through and hooks too late. and the timeless doesn't always hook enough to hit the pocket if its really bad on the lane. I am hoping the solid cover on the sure lock will fill that gap when I need it.

Thanks in advance!
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by EricHartwell »

Ryan5508 wrote:Sorry in advance if this is vague. I am new to taking more of an interest into serious bowling.

I currently have two balls drilled. A DV8 deviant pearl and a Storm timeless. Both are similarly drilled for finger tips with inserts(sorry I have no idea on measurement's). Pin up around an inch and over from the ring finger an inch. around a 5 inch spread from thumb to fingers. The Timeless is the same but has a balance hole. I can add a picture of it later today.

I just purchased a Storm Sure lock and would like some recommendations before I drill it.

I am naturally speed dominate stroker with low revs. I tend to stay behind the ball allot. Average around 17.5mph at the pins. I am currently working on slowing down to help get more hook and better release. If I stay around 16mph at the pins I have a much more pronounced hook and score better.

Would you recommend based off my little information that I drill the ball similar to the timeless with a balance hole? I like the way the ball rolls just need some extra hook for a few places I currently bowl at. They tend to do a poor job cleaning there back ends. My deviant runs through and hooks too late. and the timeless doesn't always hook enough to hit the pocket if its really bad on the lane. I am hoping the solid cover on the sure lock will fill that gap when I need it.

Thanks in advance!
Welcome to BowlingChat

To give layout recommendations there is more information needed to give you an accurate layout.
Check out this link...
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Adding some pictures of your existing balls showing the pin and balance hole would be helpful. Knowing your PAP, release specs and the actual layouts on your existing would be best.

Do you have a good proshop to work with?
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Ryan5508
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

I don't have any pictures of the storm timeless on my phone at work here, but here is the dv8.

I had the same pro shop do both my previous balls but they were just sold to New owners. The shop is now under construction. They seemed knowegable but didn't really give me much information on what they were doing and why. He had watched me throw the dv8 and added the balance hole to the timeless after watching me. I will get a picture of it up later when I get home.
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TonyPR
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by TonyPR »

If your shop has a prosect, a grease pencil and an armadillo they can find out your PAP and axis tilt, those two numbers would be of great help for layout recommendations. Also, you can significantly affect a ball's reaction by changing it's surface.
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Ryan5508
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

Here is the timeless layout-

Lets simplify what I am asking I guess.

I like the way the timeless goes down the lane. If I drill the Sure lock exactly the same its should in theory have the same general shape outside of the coverstock and it effect on the hook/roll? Correct or no? Sorry if I view this simpler then I should.

For me currently the deviant and the timeless act the same but the timeless turns in earlier and a little harder. I generally throw the timeless from about the 18th board to 5-8 and back to the pocket. I want the sure lock to be stronger to make up for my speed and or heavy oil.
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by snick »

The Surelock has a strong asymmetric weightblock; the Timeless has a symmetrical weightblock.
The pin-pap distances and drilling angles will work differently for these two ball designs.
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Your proshop will have to measure your PAP in order to discover the layout that is on the Timeless.
This information, along with the empirical data from actually watching the ball motion on the lane, will help determine the ideal layout for you on a strong asymm like the Surelock.
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

Good information to know. Thank you!

If I am measuring correctly on my own it looks to be 4.5 x 4.5 x 2 on the timeless with 6 inches between the center of the thumb and finger holes. also not sure if it helps but my oil rings are 1 inch from the 1st finger hole.
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by TonyPR »

To know the layout (4.5x4.5x2) you need your PAP. What is your PAP? Also, did you find out your axis tilt. We want to help and are qualified to do so but without this information we can't do so in a precise way.

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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by EricHartwell »

Ryan5508 wrote:Good information to know. Thank you!

If I am measuring correctly on my own it looks to be 4.5 x 4.5 x 2 on the timeless with 6 inches between the center of the thumb and finger holes. also not sure if it helps but my oil rings are 1 inch from the 1st finger hole.
When I mapped out the layouts with a ~5" PAP they do resemble your pics so, let us assume that you are measuring correctly....

4.5 x 4.5 x 2 .........................75-4.5-30 measuring the drilling angle to the thumb assuming the balance hole is close to your PAP and there to just take out side weight reducing flare coupled with the reduction in flare due to the 4.5" pin to PAP.
The equivalent Asym layout would be 70-2.75-35.

Here is my proposal for a layout on the Sure Lock
3 1/2" x 4 5/8" x 1 7/8 ........................................ 50-3.5-35 P2 balance hole on PAP
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Ryan5508
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

Thank you.

At least this way I can ask to have my ball meassured to verify when I go to the new shop on friday. And have a better idea on what I am looking for on the sure lock.

I will post back on the actual measurements then
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by JohnP »

Your spans are fairly long, I'd like to see a picture with your thumb fully inserted and your fingers laying over their holes. Spans are normally measured from gripping surface to gripping surface. -- JohnP
Ryan5508
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by Ryan5508 »

Here you go
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JohnP
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Re: Multiple balls with same layout

Post by JohnP »

You do have a large hand! Still, I'd say your spans are about 3/16" (MF) & 1/4" (RF) long. The gripping surface should fall half way between the two joints. If you've got an old ball, try plugging and redrilling it to the shorter spans before you drill your new ball. -- JohnP
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