The 2017 urethane ball thread

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by MegaMav »

SST wrote:I'll receive a True Motion next week. With a high tilt (25°), I'll drill this ball with a RICO layout.
Why would you do that? Unless you want it to hit like a wet noodle.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by pjape »

EricHartwell wrote:Lane shined to me means the lane acting like an abrasivee and actually making the surface of the ball smoother.

I completely understand what Nord is saying. The oil is all on the surface and microfiber towels do not get it all off. I have starting using a suede leather ball shammy. It works much better. I have been bowling on short but heavy oil pattern for the last month. After 1 game my ball was completely slimy and pretty much unusable. Each week after that I was trying diffrent methods including using an approved ball cleaner between each frame. Finally in the 4th week I used the leather shammy and had a consistant ball reaction for all 4 games.
Eric, what do you do when your shammy gets soaked with oil? Can you wash a leather shammy? I just bought two pairs where I work and am going to try them tonight when I practice with urethane. I hope I don't have to continually buy more.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by EricHartwell »

pjape wrote:
Eric, what do you do when your shammy gets soaked with oil? Can you wash a leather shammy? I just bought two pairs where I work and am going to try them tonight when I practice with urethane. I hope I don't have to continually buy more.
I have read and ben told to just throw it in the laundry. I just started using them. Its not totally soaked with oil yet.
When it is ready to be washed I am going to wash it by hand with Dawn dish soap and let it hang to dry slowly. Drying leather quickly will make it shrink and become very stiff. I am using the suede style not an actual Shammy. With the suede type a nylon bristled brush can be used to loosen the fibers on the surface to restore the natural knap of the suede. I got this tid bit of info reading abou the care of suede leather products.
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Post by bowl1820 »

pjape wrote:Can you wash a leather shammy?
YES!

I clean my leather shammy with warm water and soap and a nylon suede brush and it's fine.

You have to treat it more like a car chamois, you got to use a very mild soap.

DON'T use dish soaps, laundry detergents (So don't put it in the laundry and don't put it in the dryer!), chemicals , alcohol or you'll remove the natural oils from the leather. A Chamois usually gets stiff because they get too dry from the loss of the natural oils in the leather.

Remember leather is "skin"

I washed mine by hand with a hand soap and gently scrubbed it with the nylon brush, then rinsed it thoroughly and squeezed/wrung it dry. I then stretched it out and clipped it to a coat hanger and let it air dry. Don't put it in the sun, UV is bad for it.

Here's Storm's Shammy Pad Cleaning Instructions:

The Storm Shammy Pad needs cleaning after some use
The proper procedure will make the pad last longer
Remember the Shammy Pad is made of leather

1. Wet the pad with warm water.
2. Use a soft bristle brush and gently rub the pad using a
mild dish soap to exfoliate the surface of the pad.
3. Rinse the pad with warm water to remove the soap.
4. Ring the pad out and let it air dry before putting it
back in your bag.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

MegaMav wrote:
Why would you do that? Unless you want it to hit like a wet noodle.
I agree, such a high VAL angle combined with high tilt will run the risk of never getting into a roll. List your other specs so we can recommend a layout. You want urethane to roll early and a very large VAL angle will prolong the hook phase too much. If we were to go generic, something like pin besides the ring finger (or on RF depending on PAP) and a 3/4" wide x 3" deep hole on the VAL 1.5" below the midline would work much better.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

SST wrote:I'll receive a True Motion next week. With a high tilt (25°), I'll drill this ball with a RICO layout.
For God's sake don't drill a urethane ball like this.
You have high tilt and naturally will get much more length on a ball due to your tilt.
This particular urethane ball will go straighter and have less side to side motion due to its design anyway.
You can see this in the "Lane Side" review I posted.
You should drill this ball as strong and early as you can and with your tilt it should roll up fine for you and give you plenty of control.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

To give you a quick idea of how potentially strong a urethane ball can be, tonight I bowled in the Parkway no tap tournament.
I won my division last year with my Dark Legend Solid playing second arrow all night.
This year I only brought my Visionary Midnight Scorcher at 600 grit Scotch-Brite.
I was the only bowler in the whole tournament using urethane.
I walked the whole complex and looked at everyone's balls and they were all reactive.

With the Scorcher I was able to stand right foot on 16 and play up second arrow on the first pair, but had to keep inching left with my feet a half board every 5 frames.
When we moved right to the next pair after two games, this pair was so fried I had to move to right foot on 24 playing third arrow out to 10 and back and the Scorcher was still trying to inch high!
Did you get that? With urethane I had to make an 8 and 5 move left!

By comparison, everyone using reactive who moved to this pair virtually could stay in the exact same spot with their feet and target. Only a couple of them moved left two boards with their feet and one with their target. While my ball was hooking off my feet, everyone else was getting excellent length and a nice snap off the back end. This is how strong urethane can be!

For me strong urethane is always much earlier than any reactive ball I have ever used.
Even my Dark Legend Solid with its high flare layout and at 500 grit is much longer and later than my Scorcher.

I am wondering what the Black Widow Urethane will be like compared to the Scorcher.
I already placed my order and will drill it as strong as possible.
But even then it will probably be weaker than my Scorcher and can be a ball down option for me when the Scorcher gets out of control like it did tonight during the tournament.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

just bought a hot cell. excited to see what it can do.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

mrbean wrote:just bought a hot cell. excited to see what it can do.
Please let us know what you think.
A video would be great too.
Maldonado was using the Hot Cell in the Scorpion.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

will let you know what i think, as for a video i don't have a good camera.
can anybody recommend one of the following layouts for a rev dominate bowler who wants to play a straighter line on a THS.
layout1.jpg
layout2.jpg
layout3.jpg
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by EricHartwell »

mrbean wrote:can anybody recommend one of the following layouts for a rev dominate bowler who wants to play a straighter line on a THS.
What are your release specs?
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

mrbean wrote:can anybody recommend one of the following layouts for a rev dominate bowler who wants to play a straighter line on a THS.
If you want to play a straighter line on a house shot why get a Hot Cell?
Just get a Pitch Black or Purple hammer or the new Pure Roll.
If you get a Hot Cell, designed to be a strong asymmetric, heavy flaring and early rolling, please drill it to max it out and take advantage of what it was designed to do. Why buy a porsche and always drive it in green mode?

Also consider, a urethane release is different than a reactive release. I have learned this the hard way.
I have mostly used urethane on house shots and have learned how to roll them, but when I would use this same release on reactive balls I kept wondering why these reactive balls would not move or react.
It was baffling me for some time and I was basically ready to throw my reactive balls away out of frustration. Then recently I learned how to release reactive balls so they will snap and it was a revelation! Now I have two releases, a urethane release and a reactive release. One is gentle and smooth at the bottom (urethane release) and the other snappy at the bottom (reactive release).

Reactive balls like to be revved and urethane balls like to be rolled.
Think about that when considering your layout.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

Nord wrote:If you get a Hot Cell, designed to be a strong asymmetric, heavy flaring and early rolling, please drill it to max it out and take advantage of what it was designed to do. Why buy a porsche and always drive it in green mode?
thats a good point, i will drill it strong.
as for a different release, i have watched REmarcaBOWL throwing all kinds of balls (urethane, reactive, plastic, and even a quantum helix.) and he seems to have the same release for all of them.
here he is throwing the hot cell
[youtube][/youtube]
and for comparison here he is throwing one of my favorite balls the paradox tx3.
[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by magicmike »

I'll do some video of my Tank Rampage, and Rebel Tank from Motiv one of these weekends.

I use them both fairly often, but it's usually on flat patterns where I want to control the backend and play out closer to the gutter, not a house pattern. I have extremely rarely found urethane to ever be a good option on a house pattern compared to reactive with really high sum layouts to get them to "act" like urethane. Just my 2cents.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

mrbean wrote: thats a good point, i will drill it strong.
as for a different release, i have watched REmarcaBOWL throwing all kinds of balls (urethane, reactive, plastic, and even a quantum helix.) and he seems to have the same release for all of them.
Good. Don't muzzle the Hot Cell. Lol.

As to the urethane release vs. the reactive release.
Pete Weber is the perfect example of a player who was a master of urethane who had to take several years to adjust his release technique to be able to throw reactive.
Watch some old videos of him using urethane and then watch some modern videos of him using reactive, you will see what he is doing differently.
If reactive had never emerged and we stuck with urethane, I am sure Pete would have 80 titles by now!

Based on my experience with urethane and reactive, what I have found is this, true or not:

Since urethane reads the front of the lane so strongly, you want to ease off the torque, If you torque it too much it will lose too much in the front of the lane and hit weakly in the back of the lane. This is, once again, because urethane reads the front, hooks in the front, and then is done and rolls longer in the back. You have to let the ball spread that hook out so it has something left to hit with.

With reactive, by nature, these balls skid way further than urethane and read the front very little. Their magic happens in the back of the lane. They skid and skid and as soon as they hit that dry they grip hard and turn left and pop! That is their advantage, losing much less energy in the front and saving it for the big move in the back. So with reactive you can hit it hard at the bottom and know it won't burn up and will hold the line to the back where it will unleash that power.

The two videos below show how I do the two releases. I am playing the same line on the lane, basically trying to go up 10. With my Midnight Scorcher I am being softer at the bottom so the ball will not roll too early since it is reading the front so hard. I follow through and pull the ball through more, trying not to hit it too hard with my fingers, letting it roll off softer. With my Dark Legend reactive I am free to put more hand in the ball because I know it will get way down the lane easily and then jump off the spot. So I am torquing it more at the bottom.

Watch the ball motions closely and the rev rates and where the balls start to grab and the different roll distances.
Hope this helps.


Urethane Release

[youtube][/youtube]

Reactive Release

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

i see what you mean now. you seem to be rolling the urethane/particle ball and pitching the reactive ball more. although i still think REmarcaBOWL has the same release for both, but maybe it works for him (also he is the only one i have seen loft the gutter with a urethane ball, ha ha)
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by jazlar »

A few things I don't agree with that have been posted recently.

#1 - Urethane balls do soak in some oil, but not quickly. I have never seen a urethane ball soak in oil going down the lane. I had a 500 grit Black Hammer out of the box and it stayed pretty much that dull for weeks. I actually sat it on a table after using it in practice and in the 3rd game those oil rings were just as thick. Others noticed this as well. Even on the burn, urethane picks up oil and it sits on the cover.

#2 - This goes with the above. Lane shining does not seem to happen the same with urethane as resin. As mentioned, I can go weeks without having to adjust the surface on urethane.

Two things are more likely to happen than the above. One, is not wiping the ball well enough. Two, is carry down. It won't happen immediately, but it will happen. Actually, a third. Urethane can also burn too much energy because of its early hook. I've already seen it happen with my Hot Cell. Pulled out the Purple Hammer and saw just how much they were hooking.

#3 - This notion that you need to alter your release to throw urethane. False. You generally can't swing urethane the same as resin, but you do not need to change your release. Urethane wants to hook early. Going away from the pocket too much is not wise. However, you can still attack the ball the same way. If you can find that oil line, you can rev it up and tuck it in there. The ball will ride that oil and smash the pocket. No need to baby the ball just because it is urethane.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

just got the hot cell today, will drill it Saturday. has a 2.5-3 inch pin (haven't measured it exactly)
can anyone recommend a surface? comes at 1000 abralon, and was wondering if i should take it to 500 or even 360.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by pjape »

I found this interesting regarding ball surface. Last week during a practice session, I decided ahead of time I was going to bowl several games with my Pitch Blue. I wanted to put the surface at 360g, but discovered I didn't have a 360g pad. So, I took a 240g Siaair pad that I think I used one time, and did four sides for 30 seconds a side pretty lightly.

I thought it would probably hook before the arrows, but was surprised at my ball reaction. I kept moving right, and didn't get flush until I went straight up six. My carry was good, so I knew the ball wasn't hooking early. I even had a full board of pull area.

This perplexes me since, though I don't have a lot of hand, even with the surface at 240 and very little oil that far out, I had a good shot and reaction. I really only had one bad hit that resulted in a lot of deflection, but I still struck.

Ideas?
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

jazlar wrote:A few things I don't agree with that have been posted recently.

#1 - Urethane balls do soak in some oil, but not quickly...urethane picks up oil and it sits on the cover.
Two things are more likely to happen...One, is not wiping the ball well enough. Two, is carry down.

#3 - This notion that you need to alter your release to throw urethane. False. You generally can't swing urethane the same as resin, but you do not need to change your release. Urethane wants to hook early. Going away from the pocket too much is not wise. However, you can still attack the ball the same way. If you can find that oil line, you can rev it up and tuck it in there. The ball will ride that oil and smash the pocket. No need to baby the ball just because it is urethane.
In my experience using almost exclusively urethane balls, wiping is essential to prevent the ball from losing its traction. Yet despite this, the ball will get oil in its pores and become lubricated and unless you clean the ball with a cleaning solution during play, it will lose its initial reaction and stabilize at some level of traction depending on the volume of the lane. Because of this, during practice I do not wipe my urethane ball because I want it to get to that point of equilibrium as soon as possible so I can see what my true reaction on the fresh is going to be and get lined up. With virtually all of my urethane balls, the first shot will hook across the lane, then the next shot will be less and so on until finally the true reaction starts to emerge.

Carry down for a modern, heavily flaring urethane ball, is no more than it is for reactive. The only real difference is the urethane ball keeps the oil on top while the reactive sucks it in. But if you wipe the oil off the urethane ball then it is gone from the ball and the lane and there is nothing to carry down on the next shot. Carry down was a big issue with non-flaring urethane because the ball rolled over the same oil line as it went down the lane drawing a nice oil stripe down the lane like a paint roller.

Different releases for different types of balls: I would not agree that this is totally false. As I do it all the time and need to do it to get a proper ball reaction. If I use my urethane release on a reactive ball, it simply does nothing in the back end and will actually just skid most of the way and be super lazy and have no hitting power. The same release with urethane will get it into a controlled, powerful roll, that will allow it to spread its hook out over the lane's length and prevent the ball from rolling out or overreacting in the back end. Urethane is not meant to snap in the back end and there is no reason to chase that reaction by trying to hit it at the bottom. That said, Jesper torques the heck out of his Pitch Black with shocking results. But Belmo in the latest animal tournaments used urethane and rolled the ball more by coming more up the back of it rather than around it like he does when he plays reactive.

My advice: See what works for your release specs for each style of ball. Try different releases and watch the results as the ball go through the three phases of motion. Discover the optimal method to provide control and hitting power for each ball type with your release.

If you want to see what I consider to be one of the greatest modern performances with urethane, watch the 2016 Wolf competition. Tom did the things that I am talking about as far as changing your release for urethane, he backed off the snap and got slow and easy. Watch him carefully, he is amazing.

[youtube][/youtube]
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