The 2017 urethane ball thread

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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TonyPR
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Urethane likes to read early, low tilt and low ball speed will cause it to have difficulty clearing the heads.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote:Urethane likes to read early, low tilt and low ball speed will cause it to have difficulty clearing the heads.
Yep, that's me. It seems odd, but strong urethane is earlier and stronger for me than reactive.
When the oil starts drying up and urethane is dying out, I have to go to reactive to get the ball up the lane and still have some carry power.
But the problem with reactive is the potential loss of control because it can get too jumpy in the back.
I am wondering if it would be possible to create a house shot arsenal composed entirely of urethane.

Maybe you can help me fill in the blanks:

Strongest: Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Strong: Black Widow Urethane
Medium:
Weak:
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by gunso »

I'd add the purple pearl and pitch blue to the list. the pitch blue is by far the weakest of them and will clear the heads on most conditions. the purple pearl clears the head more easily than the solids but has a quicker response to friction than regular urethane
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

gunso wrote:I'd add the purple pearl and pitch blue to the list. the pitch blue is by far the weakest of them and will clear the heads on most conditions. the purple pearl clears the head more easily than the solids but has a quicker response to friction than regular urethane


So is this the line up you are recommending?

Strongest: Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Strong: Black Widow Urethane
Medium: Purple Hammer
Weak: Pitch Blue
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Would like to see a side by side comparison of the Purple and Black Hammer both using the out of box surface of the Purple Hammer (500, 1000, 2000) I think that the only reason the Black may appear stronger is because it's earlier and that I think is because of the 500 surface. I have rolled a pin over bridge Black that has never been resurfaced so it's probably 4000 lane shine and it goes longer and smoother than my properly mantained 500, 1000, 2000 Purple, Purple has a similar VAL angle but a 4 3/8" pin to pap, pin above the bridge Black is about 5.5" pin to pap for me although I don't think layouts matter much with such a weak core. Both have a third hole more or less where a thumbhole would be (I'm two handed no thumb).

Curious note, my Purple rolled earlier with only the finger holes drilled. When I drilled the third hole (down 4" from the fingers and 1/2" right 15/16"x3") the ball went longer and harder out the back. My theory is even though it was suspected according to theory that the P4 would make it earlier what it actually did was engage the core and caused a later stronger reaction with more flare (although still not much). Without the third hole the coverstock dominated the reaction and read earlier, with the hole the core delayed the hook phase by setting the PSA, maybe if the hole would have been 2" down the VAL then it would have been another story. Finger holes were drilled standard depth not deep as suggested by Mo in his no thumb drilling document...
Last edited by TonyPR on December 13th, 2017, 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Nord, if you could learn to release the ball with much less axis rotation, maybe 45*, then you could probably not have reactives be so uncontrollable. Being able to have your regular axis rotation along with a much lower one in your bag of tricks would serve you much better than getting more balls.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote:Nord, if you could learn to release the ball with much less axis rotation, maybe 45*, then you could probably not have reactives be so uncontrollable.
I have experimented with 45 degrees and what happens is almost immediate rollout and loss of hitting power.
My bowling hero Billy Hardwick rolled a full roller too, but had a very straight end over end roll, probally closer to 45 degrees or less.
But he had higher ball speed and was using rubber.
You can see a vid here of me comparing my normal release to a 45 degree release with the same ball.
You can see the dramatic difference in ball reaction.
The 45 degree ball carries but deflects while the 90 degree ball goes through the pins:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Have you tried coaching to see if maybe you could increase your speed to at least 13 mph in the monitor, I have seen your videos and you seem to be good at repeating and hitting your mark with your style. If not, a Widow spare could be an interesting option, Widow core with a plastic cover.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote:Have you tried coaching to see if maybe you could increase your speed to at least 13 mph in the monitor, I have seen your videos and you seem to be good at repeating and hitting your mark with your style. If not, a Widow spare could be an interesting option, Widow core with a plastic cover.
Some coaches who have watched my videos have said I am matched, a couple of others have said slightly rev dominant.
I have a Widow Spare that on occasion can be used on super, super dry conditions.
The Widow urethane is generally perfectly fine on normal volume or higher volume house shots.
But if there is less oil than normal, or the shot is broken down in the front, then I need to be prepared to ball down to a weaker option that will let me keep my angles closed down so I don't have to give away the pocket.
An arsenal of urethane balls of different types or grits I think could work.
At the top of hook potential would be the Widow and then down from there Hammer Purple Pearl and then perhaps True Motion or Blue Hammer.
One of those should be fine for a normal down and in shot depending on volume of the house shot.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

what about one of the motiv tank balls (tank rampage or tank combat)
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

mrbean wrote:what about one of the motiv tank balls (tank rampage or tank combat)
I would think the new "Hybrid" Combat Tank would be a nice option.
It is designed to be able to scoot over a broken down front but still have good friction in the back without over reacting.
It could be a nice ball down option, or a first ball out of bag if there is not enough oil in the fronts as happened to me with the Widow.

http://www.motivbowling.com/products/ba ... -tank.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Zman06 »

[quote="TonyPR"]Would like to see a side by side comparison of the Purple and Black Hammer both using the out of box surface of the Purple Hammer (500, 1000, 2000) I think that the only reason the Black may appear stronger is because it's earlier and that I think is because of the 500 surface. I have rolled a pin over bridge Black that has never been resurfaced so it's probably 4000 lane shine and it goes longer and smoother than my properly mantained 500, 1000, 2000 Purple, Purple has a similar VAL angle but a 4 3/8" pin to pap, pin above the bridge Black is about 5.5" pin to pap for me although I don't think layouts matter much with such a weak core. Both have a third hole more or less where a thumbhole would be (I'm two handed no thumb).

I have both and drilled both the same. Its amazing how I can hit the pocket with the purple hammer and then throw the black hammer on the same line and go 3-6 pocket. 45x4x70 with a hole 2 inches below the midline on val. Layout was given to me by Del Warren.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

Zman06 wrote:I have both and drilled both the same. Its amazing how I can hit the pocket with the purple hammer and then throw the black hammer on the same line and go 3-6 pocket. 45x4x70 with a hole 2 inches below the midline on val. Layout was given to me by Del Warren.
And this is exactly what David O'Sullivan pointed out in his Facebook Urethane tech talk. He said Purple has more backend and less early read but more shape downlane. Black will read earlier and lay off. It needs to be pointed more like classic urethane.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by jazlar »

Nord wrote: And this is exactly what David O'Sullivan pointed out in his Facebook Urethane tech talk. He said Purple has more backend and less early read but more shape downlane. Black will read earlier and lay off. It needs to be pointed more like classic urethane.
The black doesn't need to be pointed at all. It just needs to be used on the right conditions. It is definitely the stronger cover of the two, but it does not cover as many boards as the purple when used at the wrong time. It is better on fresh patterns. It definitely handles more oil than the purple ball. Heavier short patterns are better suited for this ball. Some medium patterns as well. It's the least suited for a house shot out of the three. That's more where you might need to point it.

Hammer's site lists the purple as having a weaker cover. Ball strength should be measured from front to back, not side to side. The purple appears to be stronger because it will often cover more boards, but it is actually just cleaner with more back end motion. I can't rely on this ball for 10 pins because of this.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

jazlar wrote:
The black doesn't need to be pointed at all. It just needs to be used on the right conditions. It is definitely the stronger cover of the two, but it does not cover as many boards as the purple when used at the wrong time. It is better on fresh patterns. It definitely handles more oil than the purple ball. Heavier short patterns are better suited for this ball. Some medium patterns as well. It's the least suited for a house shot out of the three. That's more where you might need to point it.

Hammer's site lists the purple as having a weaker cover. Ball strength should be measured from front to back, not side to side. The purple appears to be stronger because it will often cover more boards, but it is actually just cleaner with more back end motion. I can't rely on this ball for 10 pins because of this.
Interesting. Thank you for the clarification and for pointing out the difference between front to back and side to side strength.

Maybe this story fits the comparison.

Yesterday in league at Poway they put down a mystery pattern.
I tried to use my Karma Urethane at 1000 grit up 10, outside of 10 and inside of 10 with no control or hitting power.
A miss right would stay right and a miss inside would cross over or go high.
Then I tried my Rack Attack and it would not hook at all, it would just skid to the end of the pattern.
I had a 130 in the first game and my doubles partner who has a 220 average bowled a 133!
In game two I bowled a 156.
Finally in game three I pulled out my Grizz urethane, a ball with no core, no flare and finished at at 1000 grit.
After a shot it would come back with a single thin oil stripe.

I moved left with right foot on 18 rolling over 12 out to 10 or 9 and the ball was so silky smooth and controllable, but it turned the corner when it got to the back and came across with wonderful continuation and carried hard. I closed with a 201.

What the heck was going on here???

I mean, really? The Grizz? An ancient no core, non-flaring ball drilled with CG in palm center yet rolling strong on lanes that a reactive ball would not even grip on and a modern urethane (Karma) at the same grit with a high flare layout would not roll up well or carry.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by bowl1820 »

Nord wrote: Interesting. Thank you for the clarification and for pointing out the difference between front to back and side to side strength.
Just a FYI about front to back and side to side strength:

[youtube][/youtube]

USBC Gold coach Bryan O’Keefe and USBC Hall of Famer Carolyn Dorin-Ballard discuss the difference between strong and weak bowling balls and the common misconception of what it means for a ball to be considered strong.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

bowl1820 wrote:
Just a FYI about front to back and side to side strength:

[youtube][/youtube]

USBC Gold coach Bryan O’Keefe and USBC Hall of Famer Carolyn Dorin-Ballard discuss the difference between strong and weak bowling balls and the common misconception of what it means for a ball to be considered strong.
So in my example of the Grizz working wonderfully on a pair that did not allow the Rack Attack to even roll and the Karma to hit weakly, would you say the Grizz was weaker front to back and saved more energy for down lane giving it a stronger backend reaction that carried? Note I was trying to play the Rack and Karma down and in.

Or would you say the Grizz was actually a stronger ball and that is why when I moved my target into the oil and never allowed the ball to get right of the oil, (a tip shot) it rolled strongly and carried?
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

i would like to see storm make a high end urethane ball. maybe with the core from the code series, or the lock series, maybe a urethane phaze.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

mrbean wrote:i would like to see storm make a high end urethane ball. maybe with the core from the code series, or the lock series, maybe a urethane phaze.
I agree, this would be cool.
Perhaps that is what is on the horizon of the game, a whole new era of modern urethane balls with differnt reactions.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

jazlar wrote:
The black doesn't need to be pointed at all. It just needs to be used on the right conditions. It is definitely the stronger cover of the two, but it does not cover as many boards as the purple when used at the wrong time. It is better on fresh patterns. It definitely handles more oil than the purple ball. Heavier short patterns are better suited for this ball. Some medium patterns as well. It's the least suited for a house shot out of the three. That's more where you might need to point it.

Hammer's site lists the purple as having a weaker cover. Ball strength should be measured from front to back, not side to side. The purple appears to be stronger because it will often cover more boards, but it is actually just cleaner with more back end motion. I can't rely on this ball for 10 pins because of this.
What I am saying is the Black appears stronger (front to back) because it comes out of the box at 500 grit surface, some people never change the out of box surface. The Purple comes 500, 1000, 2000... of course it's going to be weaker front to back and have more reaction in the back. What I would like to see is a more apples to apples comparison: both balls, same layout, both at 500 grit, then both balls, same layout both at 500, 1000, 2000. My hypothesis is that the Purple will be stronger front to back (earlier) if both balls were rolled at 500 grit.
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