Looking for Perfect Ball

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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ctriopelle
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Posts: 3
Joined: March 19th, 2017, 8:38 pm

Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by ctriopelle »

Hi all, new to the forum and it looks like a great resource!

I've been bowling for 30+ years but only got decent in the last 15 or so. At my peak I averaged almost 210, but was over 200 for several years. Then something happened about 3-4 years ago and I've regressed back to 180-185 average with an occasional 250+ game a couple times a year. My strong part of my game when I was on was a decent strike percentage, a bad night was 15-16, with good nights in mid 20's.

What I feel has changed most was when my Vortex V2 Particle cracked in half one summer while in storage. I could play that ball more or less straight down 10 and it would come in for smashing strikes. I've had several balls since and they all of them hook so much that I'm having to play all the way left on the alley just to keep it on the RH side of the pocket. I really struggle with keeping my shoulders that far open during my delivery and miss way left quite often (I miss a lot of 10 pins inside also, even throwing plastic). When I hit my targets any of my balls have worked great but my confidence is mostly shot for repeating my mark. On one hand I know I should work on my shotmaking to get better at all angles, but life is getting in the way of devoting much extra time at changing my game much. I just miss being able to shoot up the RH side fairly square and happily finding the pocket!

I bowl on synthetic lanes, THS for league, ~40' pattern. Have bowled in the same house for the past 20+ years. On the house speed indicators I throw from 14.5-17 mph depending on the length of my approach and amount of hook (20+ with spare ball), and I tended to do well at about 16 with the Vortex playing down and in. I throw decent medium revs but it's been a while since I checked them and I don't remember exactly where they fall (350-375 maybe?). In recent years I've tried Brunswick Twisted Fury Solid, Storm IQ Tour Fusion, Motiv Jackal (hated that ball, glad it was recalled!), Track 503T, and my current ball, Motiv Paranoia. Even with the Paranoia's designed length I have to stand way left and angle it quite a bit to hit a breakpoint at 10 and bring it back to the pocket. It hits like a freight train when I can make my marks though.

So, anyone think I am just using the wrong equipment for how I'd like to play, or do I really just need to buckle down with practice and find a way to improve my accuracy from inside to play with the latest stuff? Local pro shops seem to just want to sell me the the most expensive new balls they have so I'm a little cynical on their motivations with ball suggestions. I do plan on trying a summer fun league this year with my family, so that could give me opportunity to try some new things without pressure to perform. It's in a totally different house though that I know reacts quite a bit different than my regular league house.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by EricHartwell »

It is almost as if you were talking about me. Even to the point about your particle ball cracking. The difference in our story was I took 3 years away from the game and came back this year to find I wasn't as good as I was.
Higher rev rates without the needed speed is not a good combination with today's conditions and stronger coverstocks. Typical House Shots (THS) just don't have enough oil outside to be able to play where you used to. Without changing your game, which many pros have done to stay competitive, you will need to be able to play the deep inside lines. Ironically you will need to change your game anyway to be more consistent and comfortable swinging the lane.

There is some information you didn't give in the description of your game. Tilt and Rotation.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The information needed for layouts also makes it easier to understand your game and why your ball reaction is not optimal. The perfect ball is also going to have the perfect layout. Also there isn't just one perfect ball/layout that will be needed for ever changing lane conditions.

I have resorted to using urethane. Ball of choice for me has been the Blue Hammer. I will be spending time this summer to change my game and find a better balance between my speed and revolutions.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
ctriopelle
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Joined: March 19th, 2017, 8:38 pm

Re: Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by ctriopelle »

Thanks for the info! You got me thinking and I found some old video I shot last year when I figured out my rev rate. Turns out I'm about 300-325 off some slo-mo I shot on my go pro. I also got an average ball speed using the links you gave me and I'm at 19mph over the course of the lane and I'm guessing closer to 24-25 off the hand (but I couldnt see the arrows in any of my shots so I had to guess the 15' mark). I definitely have historically considered myself a speed dominant player if I don't watch out, which is why it's frustrating that I am overhooking the pocket nowadays (or more accuratly just flat out missing left when I start left).

Unfortunately, I don't have good enough video to accurately find my tilt and rotation info so I'm a bit in the dark there. If I had to guess looking at the overlay and just knowing how my ball comes off my hand, I'd say I have 50-55 degrees of axis rotation and 15-20 degrees of tilt. Those could be way off though, as my POV vs what's required to match the overaly are way off. I think Im going to do a practice session this week in preparation for our upcoming roll off match though so maybe I can get better data then.
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by EricHartwell »

First off I would like to welcome you to BowlingChat. I forgot to do that in my first post.

Tilt is best measured by measuring the first oil track. It is one of the most important specs to figuring out layouts.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... =Axis_tilt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If your average speed is 19 to the headpin then off your hand is 21 mph.
Definitely speed dominant not quite the problem I described earlier.
I am guessing that your normal favorite shot is off the corner and you are playing the very dry boards on the outside. I haven't been able to play out there on THS since the introduction of the reactive balls. Even with the urethane my house shot is so dry it is nothing but brooklyns.

I think your issue is in where you are trying to play the lanes. You have to let the lanes tell you where to bowl. Trying to play the lanes the way you want doesn't always work out so well.
Your equipment may not be optimal I would need to know what the layouts are to be able to analyse that. With your speed dominance, to play in the oil, stronger balls and layouts would be needed. This is in line with what your local proshop is trying to sell to you.

We have a coaching section here where you can gain some very good insight on how to improve your game. The Certified Coaching section only lets the Certified Coaches respond so you are assured in getting good advice. The community section allows anybody to respond. Not that you can't get good advice there. You just have to sort through what might not be the best advice.

viewforum.php?f=12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
ctriopelle
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Member
Posts: 3
Joined: March 19th, 2017, 8:38 pm

Re: Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by ctriopelle »

Thanks a ton for your insight and I will definitely work to get more accurate on my release specs. I wipe my ball after every shot otherwise I'd try to check what the leftover tracks might show. Practice session on Wednesday if I can shake my nasty cold!

I see you are in Michigan...if you are on the west side I normally use Mike Mark's pro shop for my stuff. Good guys but I end up with someone different there every time. The other bad thing is that I always end up getting new stuff over Christmas holidays or right at the start of the season when they are super busy so I haven't had a chance for 1 on 1 time to follow up once the ball is drilled. I have a daughter that is starting to show some promise at the HS level so we are both planning to work on our games together this summer, I've not ever done anything in the offseason since I started bowling!

I'll also probably post some stuff in the coaching section...this site seems like it is an amazing resource for help!
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Qman
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Posts: 548
Joined: October 15th, 2012, 5:14 pm
THS Average: 185
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/8 1/2 up
Rev Rate: 280
Axis Tilt: 23
Axis Rotation: 20
Heavy Oil Ball: Roto Grip Sinister
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Solid
Light Oil Ball: Rack Attack Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical/Storm/Roto Grip
Location: Montevideo Minnesota

Re: Looking for Perfect Ball

Post by Qman »

IQ Tour solid. Can't argue with success. Favorite ball of all time.
Adapt or perish!

PAP 4 1/8, 1/2 up
Axis Rotation 20
Axis Tilt 23
Rev rate 280
Speed Dominate / Rev Challenged
14-16mph at monitor
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