Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

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tw13
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Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by tw13 »

I just bought a couple balls and layed them out with similar angle sums that have worked for me in the past. However I'd like to drill 2-3 more and build an arsenal. PAP 4 and 1 1/16 up. My ball speed is approx. 16 of my hand, I'm more up the ball of the ball with average tilt. Love to also get a suggestion for USBC nationals, always have trouble getting it face up correctly when chasing the oil left late in D/S. Any help will be appreciated.

current balls:
Storm Code Black 50 x 4" x 40
Storm Hy Road Pearl 65 x 4.5" x 35
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by SomyP »

Looks like you want to stay with the storm/roto family. If that's the case I would get a strong symmetric ball from them, either the haywire or phase 2 depending on your needs. If money was no issue I would go phase 2 with 4.5x5x4. I know that's very even, but I'm looking for the ball to be even and smooth instead of skid flip. A daredevil or iq tour solid would be another piece to add. You have a hy-road pearl but with these two we are looking for benchmark type reactions. The reason we want benchmark type reactions is to figure out if we need to ball up, down, or simply make a physical adjustment, ball speed, rev rate, tilt etc. A roto grip wreck-em would be a very good bang for your buck ball as a dry lane ball, or if you want a slightly stronger wrecker get the wreck-it but add some surface to it. I'm not technical when it comes to drilling, I let my ball driller handle all that. For me I tell him what I'm going to be bowling on and what I want the ball to do and he drills it.

While pin up balls do go longer, and pin down tend to be more early and even, surface and how you throw will be the main factors here. I bowled nationals last year and averaged and abysmal 165 for 9 games. It was a case of nerves and not reading the pattern right. Last year if I missed it left the ball kept going left even if I had enough speed. Miss right and the ball sailed forever. I tried to play around 10 the whole time and simply adjust speed and rotation. Personally I get a good deal of rotation and average tilt, so for me I had to work really hard on keeping my hand behind the ball so the change in direction wouldn't be drastic.

I'll be going towards the end of May for nationals so we will see how it goes. For team honestly if you know 9 other good bowlers who are similar to each other in terms of skill and ability to play all parts of the lane bring them as two teams of 5. This way you guys can build a game plan of breaking down the pattern exactly how you want it and keep chasing the oil left. When it gets to single and doubles if I remember correctly there are 6 people on a pair. So if all 6 of you play the same part of the lane and keep chasing the oil left there should be no reason for all events for anyone not to be around 1800. The only people on your team(s) who would be in trouble would be left handers as it is sink or swim for them most of the time. My sister who is a great left hander in her own right normally doesn't struggle too much on the left side.

My final word of advice is to learn how to shoot spares without a spare ball. In this case take your code black and learn how to flatten it out and try to pick off just the 10 and 7 pins in practice. My reasoning is if I don't have to carry around a plastic ball I can add another reactive ball in my bag I may need. Otherwise adding a urethane piece would be a way to go as well.
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by EricHartwell »

tw13 wrote:I just bought a couple balls and layed them out with similar angle sums that have worked for me in the past. However I'd like to drill 2-3 more and build an arsenal. PAP 4 and 1 1/16 up. My ball speed is approx. 16 of my hand, I'm more up the ball of the ball with average tilt. Love to also get a suggestion for USBC nationals, always have trouble getting it face up correctly when chasing the oil left late in D/S. Any help will be appreciated.

current balls:
Storm Code Black 50 x 4" x 40
Storm Hy Road Pearl 65 x 4.5" x 35
Welcome to BowlingChat

Estimated and incomplete release specs make it difficult to make recommendations.
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By looking at what you already have I would want something to read the lanes earlier, play straighter and roll sooner than the Code Black.

Alpha Crux ....... 30-5-40 P3 balance hole

Then I would add something more angular than the HyRoad for when you chase the oil inside and have troubles getting the ball to face up to the pocket.

Snap Lock ........ 70-4.5-30

For a 3rd ball I would like to recommend a Control layout but without your actual release specs It would be even more of a guess than what I have already suggested.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
tw13
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by tw13 »

Thanks Eric for the reply ....

I was thinking of an Alpha Crux as well, Ive heard a lot of good feedback on it. I have had limited success with balls with drill angles less than 50 because of my slower ball speed and being slightly rev dominant, and that's with symmetrical balls, much less an asymmetrical that revs up quite a bit sooner. They just tend to read much too early and I don't get the correct shape. That could be a product of what I'm bowling on I suppose as well. I don't get to use strong equipment much in league but ideally would have a Phaze II that rolls even and an Alpha for a little different shape.

I agree that an asymmetric pearl like the Snap Lock will outhook the Hy Road pearl downlane and I'll definately take that advice.

What type of condition would be an example to have a control drilling? Maybe really flat and not much room for error to keep the pocket in play?
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
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Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by EricHartwell »

It is difficult to get a Symmetrical ball with less than a 50* drilling angle. The drilling angle On Symmetrical balls is about the thumb hole. Balance holes will pull the PSA away from the thumb. To get one less than 50* you would have to have a Huge balance hole down on the VAL line. Just because the Cg is kicked out measuring less than 50* doesn't mean the drilling angle is less than 50.

Also a 5" pin to PAP on an Asym is nothing like a 5" pin to PAP on a Symmetrical.

If you expect to use the Shiny Code Black on the fresh at Nationals and be able to control the breakpoint and start far enough right so as to not destroy the condition in the middle and leave you something in the last set, good luck.
The Layout I suggested is about shape and being able to play the fresh straighter and more towards the outside to allow you to breakdown the pattern from the outside and give you some margin for error as the set progresses and you transition to the Code Black.

Control drillings work well when there is friction, wet/dry, very fresh clean backends, ugly chopped up conditions, House shots and many different transitioning conditions. I am a fan of Control drillings because of the versatility of their uses.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by krava »

So the Hy-road isn't a good ball if you have to chase the oil left? I used my storm rocketship which is about the same and I wasn't too happy having to use it chasing the oil left 10+ boards. I perfer using the guru supreme. How do you know how far to chase the oil left? Chase it left until the ball doesn't come back to the pocket? The snap lock is a polished ball, wouldn't it have trouble coming back if it runs into carry down? Wouldn't it be better with something with more matte surface?

I am asking because I might be in the same situation. I didn't have a "ball up" today. a 800 gritt or so guru supreme is way too much of a ball up. Maybe a 2000 gritt guru supreme might have been a ball up. Isn't a radical Ridiculous more angular then a benchmark ball also?
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by tw13 »

Eric,

I totally agree with your suggestion that I need a ball to play straighter early on the fresh, that's one reason for my inquiry here.

Regarding the conversation on the 50* drill angle. For example, I have a old Hy Road that is drilled approx. 45* x 3.5 x 65* I just assumed that that 45* drill angle, (the first angle) was creating too early a read on the lane. Maybe you can help me understand why this layout doesn't create much shape for me. Perhaps it's the second angle not allowing for enough quickness off the friction?
Bad ratio? Or perhaps I'm just not playing this layout correctly by not squaring up enough? I do typically like to open the angles through the front part of the lane most of the time as I'm playing on a house shot, quit possibly not the best time to use that layout?

Thanks again
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by EricHartwell »

The Hyroad is symmetrical, if there is No Balance hole the drilling angle is more like 75*. The Cg Does Not define the drilling angle for Symmetrical balls.

You are exactly right, the 2nd angle, the VAL angle is what is not allowing the quickness in the reaction.

That ball could us a balance hole 2" below your midline on the VAL line, to lower the drilling angle and get it to respond sooner. It will still be a long seeping type hook shape. As it is it is not a ball for freesh conditions. It would be better when used on broken down conditions when the lanes provide more friction.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
tw13
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by tw13 »

Eric

Thanks, I understand why the ball reacts like it does now, I appreciate your insight.

I'm still though confused about how to layout a symmetrical ball now in regards to changing the reaction in the front part of the lane (skid) if all symmetrical drilling angles are about the thumb hole. I have watched tutorials that draw the line through the CG and call it the drill angle. You're saying it doesn't matter where the CG is, other for than static purposes, it's always the thumb hole?


Also, back to a ball to turn the corner when chasing the oil in. You're suggesting that the Snap Lock would be longer than my HyRoad pearl? I understand it will be more dynamic at the break point, I was just hoping for the same length.

Again thanks :D
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EricHartwell
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Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by EricHartwell »

tw13 wrote:Eric

Thanks, I understand why the ball reacts like it does now, I appreciate your insight.

I'm still though confused about how to layout a symmetrical ball now in regards to changing the reaction in the front part of the lane (skid) if all symmetrical drilling angles are about the thumb hole. I have watched tutorials that draw the line through the CG and call it the drill angle. You're saying it doesn't matter where the CG is, other for than static purposes, it's always the thumb hole?


Also, back to a ball to turn the corner when chasing the oil in. You're suggesting that the Snap Lock would be longer than my HyRoad pearl? I understand it will be more dynamic at the break point, I was just hoping for the same length.

Again thanks :D
The PSA, Mass Bias is very close to the thumb hole for explanation purposes It is basically the thumb hole. UNTIL you add a balance hole. Then the balance hole has influence on the PSA and will pull it away from the thumb. The only way to really know how far it has moved is to spin it on a Determinator. Generally speaking it will pull it to a point between the thumb and the balance hole.

I chose the 70 drilling angle for the suggested layout for the Snap Lock based on the relationship of your thumbhole to the layout on the Hyroad to give you similar length. If it does travel too long adjust the surface duller to get it to read the lane sooner.
Eric Hartwell

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PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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Re: Suggestions for a couple more balls to fill the arsenal

Post by mrbean »

i just got an alpha crux and threw it today, its really strong and hits hard
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