I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

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Phoenixlefty
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I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by Phoenixlefty »

Current stats:
Left handed
Rev = 250-275
Pap 4-3/4 by 3/4 up
Tilt = 11
Rotation = 50+
As a low rev lefty, I always favor early rev, high diff, low Rg equipment, consistent across all balls for the last 15 years I've been recording my success/failures. I just bought a 15lb Yeti Uncaged from Buddies. I sdhould mention the ball is sans my normal Vise IT. Just a normal thumb hole, no slug at all. Rolled it today for the first time along with a pin down Theory and pin up Mastermind Genius.
Uncaged dual angle comes out to 40 x 4 x 40. Pin is slightly up and left of ring, and Cg swung out around 45 with balance hole on midline.
I should mention that I chose the Uncaged not just because it was on closeout, but because I wanted to try to add a bit more skid/flip into my normally even and early rolling arsenal.
The reaction I saw was something I haven't seen in years, ever since an old Track Synergy. I call it "lope". I've only seen it (for me) on very high Rg balls (for me, that's 2.55 and above). It's a long, slow roll, never really revving up. There's a small amount of hook, but the ball is just not rolling, not starting up. To count revolutions I'd need a calendar. It's a very unique and obvious reaction to watch.
Had a few games to try diagnosing it....
First change... Thumb was a bit big, so I made it snug, which always helps. A little better, but not much. At this point I felt I was releasing it well. Overall fit (and subsequent layout double check) are spot on, as always when I get a ball from Buddies.
I tried throwing the Theory and Genius to see if I was doing something wrong in my delivery. Both rolled fine with normal revs and reaction.
I went with a pin up drilling on the Uncaged because I knew it would raise diff given the scoop core information I've read. I also have heard it would raise Rg, but I (perhaps incorrectly) considered that a minor issue. At 15 lb specs, I had plenty to work with in my usual "safe" range.
Frankly, I'm uncertain what to do next. Certainly I can change surface, etc, but the roll is so slow and weak, those types of adjustments are further down the road. We're not even in the ballpark yet.

Thoughts on what might be happening? I seriously haven't had a ball roll as weak as this in 10-15 years. I've made a mistake somewhere... Did my choice of pin up change the Rg that much with the scoop core? What else could it be?

Thanks in advance
FYI - My specs are:
Hand=Left
Speed=16.5 off hand)
Revs = 250
Rotation=70
Tilt = 11
PAP=4-3/4 by 3/4 up
Surface = Synthetic
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Mo Pinel
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by Mo Pinel »

Phoenixlefty wrote:Current stats:
Left handed
Rev = 250-275
Pap 4-3/4 by 3/4 up
Tilt = 11
Rotation = 50+
As a low rev lefty, I always favor early rev, high diff, low Rg equipment, consistent across all balls for the last 15 years I've been recording my success/failures. I just bought a 15lb Yeti Uncaged from Buddies. I sdhould mention the ball is sans my normal Vise IT. Just a normal thumb hole, no slug at all. Rolled it today for the first time along with a pin down Theory and pin up Mastermind Genius.
Uncaged dual angle comes out to 40 x 4 x 40. Pin is slightly up and left of ring, and Cg swung out around 45 with balance hole on midline.
I should mention that I chose the Uncaged not just because it was on closeout, but because I wanted to try to add a bit more skid/flip into my normally even and early rolling arsenal.
The reaction I saw was something I haven't seen in years, ever since an old Track Synergy. I call it "lope". I've only seen it (for me) on very high Rg balls (for me, that's 2.55 and above). It's a long, slow roll, never really revving up. There's a small amount of hook, but the ball is just not rolling, not starting up. To count revolutions I'd need a calendar. It's a very unique and obvious reaction to watch.
Had a few games to try diagnosing it....
First change... Thumb was a bit big, so I made it snug, which always helps. A little better, but not much. At this point I felt I was releasing it well. Overall fit (and subsequent layout double check) are spot on, as always when I get a ball from Buddies.
I tried throwing the Theory and Genius to see if I was doing something wrong in my delivery. Both rolled fine with normal revs and reaction.
I went with a pin up drilling on the Uncaged because I knew it would raise diff given the scoop core information I've read. I also have heard it would raise Rg, but I (perhaps incorrectly) considered that a minor issue. At 15 lb specs, I had plenty to work with in my usual "safe" range.
Frankly, I'm uncertain what to do next. Certainly I can change surface, etc, but the roll is so slow and weak, those types of adjustments are further down the road. We're not even in the ballpark yet.

Thoughts on what might be happening? I seriously haven't had a ball roll as weak as this in 10-15 years. I've made a mistake somewhere... Did my choice of pin up change the Rg that much with the scoop core? What else could it be?

Thanks in advance
Sounds like you don't have anywhere enough surface. The ball comes polished out of the box. Sand the ball with a new 2000 pad and then post what you see.
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snick
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by snick »

The balance hole (which is apparently akin to a P2) may not be reducing the drilling angle anywhere close to 40º (it's something like 75º from the pin to the thumbhole with that layout).
So instead of the expected 1:1 "early rolling" layout, you probably have something like 1.75:1 late rolling layout.
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Phoenixlefty
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by Phoenixlefty »

Thanks to both. Mo, I'll put it on the spinner this morning and test it again tonight. Snick, I'll recheck the angles, but not sure I'm catching on to why the drilling angle would be 75 degrees unless I did my dual angle calcs incorrectly. Let me think about that and will report back as well...
FYI - My specs are:
Hand=Left
Speed=16.5 off hand)
Revs = 250
Rotation=70
Tilt = 11
PAP=4-3/4 by 3/4 up
Surface = Synthetic
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by TheMilkMan »

He is referring to the PSA after drilling. Your initial drill angle was 40°, after drilling the PSA, in a symmetrical ball, will move 6-3/4" fr the low RG axis within 1/2" of the centerline, or near the thumb hole. That is why he estimates your DA to be 75°.
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by MegaMav »

Hint: If the balance hole is larger in volume than the thumb hole the PSA will be attracted more toward the balance hole.
Phoenixlefty
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Positive Axis Point: 5 x 1
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by Phoenixlefty »

Thanks to all. Sounds like my theory has gaps. More reading to do... back to the wiki...
Mo, you were right. I used a new 1500 (closest I had) and the revs picked right up. It was too much surface for the shot tonight, but the revs were back to normal. I had not anticipated the effect of surface on picking up roll. I would have thought the ball would, for lack of a better description... spins and slide, but it didn't. When surface was applied, the revs were clearly evident (even for a low rev guy like me). I still have a lot of work to do to find the right combo, but lesson learned.
Many thanks!
FYI - My specs are:
Hand=Left
Speed=16.5 off hand)
Revs = 250
Rotation=70
Tilt = 11
PAP=4-3/4 by 3/4 up
Surface = Synthetic
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Dustin
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Re: I don't understand my new Uncaged's reaction

Post by Dustin »

This older post on Core Dynamics may help if you have not seen it yet.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=82
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
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