Introduction

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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JohnB
Member
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: March 16th, 2013, 6:55 pm
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 R 0 Up
Speed: 13 mph at Camera Qubica
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 30
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Track and Radical
Location: Odessa, TX

Introduction

Post by JohnB »

Short introduction.

I am a senior bowler (70s). Have been bowling 50 years or so. Bowl right handed. Most of the other pertinent data should be listed in my bi-line. I am a USBC Silver Level Coach and was a Certified Level One Instructor before USBC decided that material would be better presented with online courses.

I have been reading the materials and various posts here for the last couple of years. I have studied the materials about the dual angle drilling, etc. I have followed most of the hand fitting procedures for the last forty years.

I have three new pieces to drill and would appreciate some thoughts on how to set up theses balls for a new arsenal. I bowl primarily on a THS and travel some to bowl in Senior All Star Bowling (Brunswick Senior Tour) tournaments. Most of those tournaments are bowled on the house shot for the host center.

My stats are: PAP =4R Up 0
Tilt 30 Deg
Rotation 55 Deg
Revs 300
Speed 15 at camera (Qubica Conqueror)


The New balls are Track Tour X Solid, Legion and Paradox (all 15#).

Thanks for any thoughts and suggestions.
Right Handed
PAP 4 R X 0
Axis tilt 30
Axis rotation 55
Rev rate 300
Speed 14.5 at Qubica camera
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EricHartwell
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Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Introduction

Post by EricHartwell »

JohnB wrote:Short introduction.

I am a senior bowler (70s). Have been bowling 50 years or so. Bowl right handed. Most of the other pertinent data should be listed in my bi-line. I am a USBC Silver Level Coach and was a Certified Level One Instructor before USBC decided that material would be better presented with online courses.

I have been reading the materials and various posts here for the last couple of years. I have studied the materials about the dual angle drilling, etc. I have followed most of the hand fitting procedures for the last forty years.

I have three new pieces to drill and would appreciate some thoughts on how to set up theses balls for a new arsenal. I bowl primarily on a THS and travel some to bowl in Senior All Star Bowling (Brunswick Senior Tour) tournaments. Most of those tournaments are bowled on the house shot for the host center.

My stats are: PAP =4R Up 0
Tilt 30 Deg
Rotation 55 Deg
Revs 300
Speed 15 at camera (Qubica Conqueror)


The New balls are Track Tour X Solid, Legion and Paradox (all 15#).

Thanks for any thoughts and suggestions.
Hi JohnB welcome to BowlingChat.

I like to start with figuring out a benchmark.
You are basically matched speed to revs but your high tilt has you playing speed dominant

Asym benchmark 80* Total 1:2 Ratio 25-4.5-55 . Legion 2000 grit

Oil Ball......60* Total 1:2 Ratio 20-5-40 1000 grit surface Paradox

Long and strong Sym...using the Cg for the drilling angle 50-3-35 tune with Double thumb balance hole. Tour X solid factory surface to start, you might want to knock off the polish if it goes too long.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
JohnB
Member
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: March 16th, 2013, 6:55 pm
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 R 0 Up
Speed: 13 mph at Camera Qubica
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 30
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Track and Radical
Location: Odessa, TX

Re: Introduction

Post by JohnB »

Eric, While putting your recommended layout on the Legion, I ended with the pin on center line right under the finger holes (both holes would take out part of the pin).

Which of the three parameters would you suggest changing in order to move the pin into a finger hole? Lengthen the pin to pap or change the drill angle/val angle?

Thanks, John
Right Handed
PAP 4 R X 0
Axis tilt 30
Axis rotation 55
Rev rate 300
Speed 14.5 at Qubica camera
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Introduction

Post by EricHartwell »

I would go for pin in the Middle finger. This will make the pin to PAP a little longer, more like 5".
Even if you have to change the VAL angle a little bit its a minor adjustment. The longer Pin to PAP will burn tilt of better than my original suggestion.

Going the other way pin in the ring finger will make the Pin to PAP shorter And the VAL angle smaller. This would make the layout more like 25-4-45 This will retain tilt longer and The Smaller VAL will be more angular at the break.

Both the Legion and the Paradox will benefit from properly positioned balance holes to be figured out after you have rolled them and evaluated the reactions/carry.

The Paradox suggestion will have the pin positioned close to the fingers on top of the bridge. Again it is ok to adjust the pin position to effectively clear the finger holes. On this one moving the pin directly up will lengthen the pin to PAP distance and make the VAL angle smaller. Both adjustments here will aid in getting the ball into a roll on oilier conditions.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
JohnP
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Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: Introduction

Post by JohnP »

Which of the three parameters would you suggest changing in order to move the pin into a finger hole? Lengthen the pin to pap or change the drill angle/val angle?
Just give your driller the layout you wanted to use and tell him to shift it so the pin is in the middle finger (or wherever you decide to put it). He'll know how to do it, or if he doesn't you should question his ability. -- JohnP
JohnB
Member
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: March 16th, 2013, 6:55 pm
THS Average: 210
Positive Axis Point: 4 R 0 Up
Speed: 13 mph at Camera Qubica
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 30
Axis Rotation: 55
Preferred Company: Track and Radical
Location: Odessa, TX

Re: Introduction

Post by JohnB »

John P

I drilled the Legion 25 x 5 x 50 to move the pin into the middle finger. Only had enough time last night to throw about two games with the Legion and the Tour X Solid.

Had not changed the surface on the Legion. The Tour X Solid is box stock no balance hole yet.
The Legion will definitely need a surface change.

Will get some time to work on them today and then off to Ft. Worth for a tournament.

Will not have time to drill the Paradox before I leave.

JohnB
Right Handed
PAP 4 R X 0
Axis tilt 30
Axis rotation 55
Rev rate 300
Speed 14.5 at Qubica camera
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Introduction

Post by EricHartwell »

JohnB wrote:John P

I drilled the Legion 25 x 5 x 50 to move the pin into the middle finger. Only had enough time last night to throw about two games with the Legion and the Tour X Solid.

Had not changed the surface on the Legion. The Tour X Solid is box stock no balance hole yet.
The Legion will definitely need a surface change. What surface are you thinking? I ask because I would highly recommend a balance hole as low on the VAL as the static weights will allow. Even if you have to drill the fingers deeper. The Legion is a weaker Asymmetrical so the PSA will need to be Strengthened preferably with a P3 or P4 balance hole. In this case 25-5-50 the marked PSA will land about 2.5" below the midline on the VAL.
My recommendation would be to knock the factory polish of it with 1000 grit. Use it dull like that till you get the Paradox drilled


Will get some time to work on them today and then off to Ft. Worth for a tournament.

Will not have time to drill the Paradox before I leave.

JohnB
Comments in color above

Remember the Tour X is for the dryer burned up lanes don't get too aggressive with the surface till you bowl on some hooking lanes and see what that ball is for. Does the static weight require a balance hole? If so use the double thumb position and start with a 7/8" hole just deep enough to make it legal. Then evaluate if you need to make it deeper for a stronger reaction.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
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