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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:18 am Post Number: #21 Post
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MWhite wrote:

Yes bouncing here is equivalent to ball deflection.

Lets assume the ball is rolling straight down the lane and impacts the head pin on the right side.

Before the impact, the ball has a mass and velocity. Since it is rolling straight down the lane, none of that velocity is in a right to left direction.

The pin has a mass, but a velocity of 0.

After the impact, the sum of the pin's mass and it's velocity, and the ball's mass and it's velocity have to be equal to the mass and velocity of the ball before impact.

Also the mass and velocity of the pin moving to the left has to equal the mass and velocity of the ball moving to the right.

So like I said, the less the ball bounces (less velocity to the right), the less the pin bounces (less velocity to the left)



Yes down lane friction matters, however since the significant change they made was too the core, the friction encountered by this ball should be the same as encountered by the equivalent shelled ball without the new core.


Unless of course if this is their new core http://sploid.gizmodo.com/nasa-reveals- ... 1614549987


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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:56 am Post Number: #22 Post
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MWhite wrote:

Yes bouncing here is equivalent to ball deflection.

Lets assume the ball is rolling straight down the lane and impacts the head pin on the right side.

Before the impact, the ball has a mass and velocity. Since it is rolling straight down the lane, none of that velocity is in a right to left direction.

The pin has a mass, but a velocity of 0.

After the impact, the sum of the pin's mass and it's velocity, and the ball's mass and it's velocity have to be equal to the mass and velocity of the ball before impact.

Also the mass and velocity of the pin moving to the left has to equal the mass and velocity of the ball moving to the right.

So like I said, the less the ball bounces (less velocity to the right), the less the pin bounces (less velocity to the left)

Yes down lane friction matters, however since the significant change they made was too the core, the friction encountered by this ball should be the same as encountered by the equivalent shelled ball without the new core.




2 further questions :oops:

Should sum of mass after impact = ball (mass) before impact + pin (mass)?

Plastic balls deflects much more than resin balls after impact with the pin (assuming same mass and velocity). Is it because of friction, entry angle or some other factors (e.g. plastic ball seldom arrives roll phase)?

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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:19 pm Post Number: #23 Post
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ads wrote:


2 further questions :oops:

Should sum of mass after impact = ball (mass) before impact + pin (mass)?


The only way the sum of mass after, is different than the sum of mass before, is somehow part of the pin, or part of the ball is broken off and no longer considered part of the pin, or ball.

Bottom line the sum of the mass doesn't change.

But you don't look at the masses only, the issue is kinetic energy, which is a combination of mass, and velocity. KE = 0.5 * mass * velocity^2

You further break down the KE into it's orthogonal components (KE(y) down the lane, and KE(x) across the lane).

Such that if the ball was entering the pocket at a 6 degree angle of entry, then KE(x) = KE * sin(6 degrees), and KE(y) = KE * cos(6 degrees)

The sum of KE before impact = sum of KE after impact.

Also in terms of deflections.

for each object, you calculate the KE(x) which is 0.5 * mass * velocity^2 * sin(angle)

The sum for all objects after impact has to equal the sum for all objects before impact.

So if the ball had an entry angle of 6 degrees, and the only thing moving was the ball, the total KE(x) would be the balls KE in the (x) direction.

After impact, both the ball and the pin are moving, so the sum for KE(x) of the pin, and KE(x) of the ball has to equal the same KE(x) value that the ball had before impact.

ads wrote:
Plastic balls deflects much more than resin balls after impact with the pin (assuming same mass and velocity). Is it because of friction, entry angle or some other factors (e.g. plastic ball seldom arrives roll phase)?


Actually a plastic ball and a resin ball will deflect very close if not exactly the same amount.

The deflection occurs in a VERY short period of time.

The difference is what happens after that short time.

Again lets assume the ball has 6 degrees of entry angle, and will deflect 20 degrees.

After impact, the ball is back in the hook phase because the axis rotation (6 degrees left) is not in line with the path of the ball (20 degrees right) so the ball will not continue on a straight line.

How effective the ball is in this new hook phase is related to the cover stock material.

Before the ball has the opportunity to make significant changes in direction, it impacts the 3 pin on the left. So we go thru all those calculations again,

A proper strike ball will actually deflect right (off the head pin), then left (off the 3 pin) then right (off the 5 pin) then left (off the 9 pin).

If the ball deflects too much to the right off the head pin, or by hitting the head pin too far on the right, the 3 pin is sent back at an angle which doesn't drive the 6 pin either directly into the 10, nor by bouncing the 6 off the wall into the 10 pin.


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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:01 pm Post Number: #24 Post
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gunso wrote:

Unless of course if this is their new core http://sploid.gizmodo.com/nasa-reveals- ... 1614549987



This is similar to putting a bird in a bird cage, then hanging the cage on a scale.

If the bird stationary, the scale should indicate the mass of the cage + the mass of the bird.

But what do you expect the scale to indicate if the bird is flying around in the cage?


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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:32 pm Post Number: #25 Post
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MWhite wrote:

Actually a plastic ball and a resin ball will deflect very close if not exactly the same amount.

The deflection occurs in a VERY short period of time.

The difference is what happens after that short time.

Again lets assume the ball has 6 degrees of entry angle, and will deflect 20 degrees.

After impact, the ball is back in the hook phase because the axis rotation (6 degrees left) is not in line with the path of the ball (20 degrees right) so the ball will not continue on a straight line.

How effective the ball is in this new hook phase is related to the cover stock material.


Before impact, the ball is on a straight line to the pocket (e.g. at 6 degrees left). Once it hits the head pin, the deflection will push the ball to the right, will the ball struggle to continue its journey at 6 degrees left (or close to) , or a right turn pointing to a new path at a new angle (close to 0 degrees)?

Is it where cover stock comes to play to maintain the angle?





Thanks for the physics lesson. I shouldn't drop it in secondary school.

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PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*


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 Post subject: Re: C300s new HyperSHOCK technology any thoughts?
 Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:26 pm Post Number: #26 Post
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ads wrote:

Thanks for the physics lesson. I shouldn't drop it in secondary school.



Is it where cover stock comes to play to maintain the angle?


Nope.

Once the ball hits the pins, the motion is dominated by the rotational inertia of the ball assembly. Created by the core structure!


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