OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

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snick
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Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

I entered a large competitive doubles league last night.
The shot for this league is a fairly short block with moderate volume in the front. Basically this shot is over/under from Hell for me with my current arsenal.

I played the shot from 3rd arrow to a breakpoint around 5.
First two games were a disaster; constant splits and muti-pin spares (154, 158) with the Ride and Cyclone.

Second two games were much better using Tropical Breeze @ 4000/polish (245, 212)
Although I can get the 'Breeze to the breakpoint @ 5 with a consistent backend reaction, it is somewhat volatile on this pattern. My stronger balls were much easier to control, but length was an issue. Push it too hard and the ball does not make the corner.

Here's the arsenal:
Storm Tropical Breeze 78º x 3.75" x 48º
Storm Ride 77º x 3.75" x 46º
Hammer Arson Low Flare 83º x 4.125" x 41º BH @ PAP
Ebonite Honor 65º x 2.75" x 35º P3
Ebonite Cyclone 75º x 5 x 30º
C300 Freeze 75º x 5.25" x 43º P1

I'm considering drilling up another 'Breeze @ 60º x 3.375" x 55º with BH 2" down the VAL.
(I'm also in a have-a-ball league, where I can get the Breeze)

Any recommendations on surfaces/balls/strategies to match up with this short blocked pattern would be appreciated.
My delivery style is up the back with a lot of forward roll, average speed, and higher than average rev-rate.
Thanks
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PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
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Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
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Rev Rate: 300
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by ads »

What lines did those bowlers with good results play? Are most of them rev dominant or speed dominant?
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
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snick
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

Rev-dominant bowler with somewhat higher axis rotation and tilt averaged 250 for four games on my pair. He was playing a deep inside line out to about 5-6 at ~40' with a Hammer Blue/Orange Spike.

My doubles partner has similar specs to mine and he also experienced some over/under problems in all four games.

The strokers I bowled against shot low 200's and had a fairly good reaction.
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Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
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DarkHorse
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by DarkHorse »

I notice you don't appear to have any Pin Down layouts.

When you say "short block" are you referring to the length of the pattern?
A larger VAL angle will give less flare and a slower response to friction, which would be recommended on shorter patterns.
I'd go with slightly more surface when experiencing over/under - gets rid of the under.
Right Handed
Speed: 18 mph (foul line)
Rev Rate: ~350 rpm
Tilt: 10*
Rotation: 55*
PAP: 5 1/8" right, 1/2" up
SomyP
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by SomyP »

Main reason I love pin down drilling on balls is to get it to start up early but be smooth on the backend. My favorite and go to ball is an IQ tour solid with the pin 4.5 inches from my PAP with the pin down between the bridge of my fingers. I have average speed and slightly higher revs at 16-18mph and 350-400 rpms. My axis of rotation is 55* and tilt is 15*. I would like my tilt down about 2-3 more degrees and rotation down 5 degrees. Reason being is to give me a more consistent read of the lanes but that's something I have to work on.

As DarkHorse said your best look would be something with minor surface to get rid of the under. We as bowlers regardless of our bowling styles need to do one thing consistently. That is get your ball to exit the target board at the breakpoint at the right time to increase your chance of being in the pocket and striking. I'll be honest. Give me 10 perfect shots in the pocket and I'll shoot at the 10 pin all day instead of 10 bad shots that were lucky enough to strike.
cheech
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Positive Axis Point: 3 13/16
Speed: 18 off hand
Rev Rate: 395
Axis Tilt: 7
Heavy Oil Ball: brunswick alpha max
Medium Oil Ball: bluevibe, iq tour solid
Light Oil Ball: topical breeze
Preferred Company: columbia 300
Location: rochester, ny

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by cheech »

ill agree with the suggestions. sounds like you need something pin down. this would also allow you to play straighter. a little bit of surface will help as well. i would look at something like a viral, wipe out or even another cyclone or freeze pin down with the polish off.
ryan chinnici
sacred heart university class of 2013
PAP-4 1/8 x 1/8 up
speed-18 (off hand)
RPM 395
tilt 10*
axis rotation *
when in doubt.....throw a vibe!
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snick
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
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Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

What is a pin-down layout for a high track bowler?
45º VAL flares very close to the finger holes for me.
Last edited by snick on June 1st, 2015, 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
cheech
Member
Member
Posts: 393
Joined: February 7th, 2010, 8:50 pm
THS Average: 224
Positive Axis Point: 3 13/16
Speed: 18 off hand
Rev Rate: 395
Axis Tilt: 7
Heavy Oil Ball: brunswick alpha max
Medium Oil Ball: bluevibe, iq tour solid
Light Oil Ball: topical breeze
Preferred Company: columbia 300
Location: rochester, ny

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by cheech »

before i increased my tilt and lowered my track i had a couple 4 3/4" x 55* VAL angle sym balls that were great. my track was <1/2" from the holes and i never clipped them. i also had a 35x4"x65 vapor zone that is great on short patterns.
ryan chinnici
sacred heart university class of 2013
PAP-4 1/8 x 1/8 up
speed-18 (off hand)
RPM 395
tilt 10*
axis rotation *
when in doubt.....throw a vibe!
User avatar
snick
BCU Graduate Layouts
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

Can I use a balance hole to move the track away from the holes?
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
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Posts: 657
Joined: November 22nd, 2014, 6:07 am
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Positive Axis Point: 5 5/8 up 3/4
Speed: 14 mph off hand
Rev Rate: 300
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 60
Location: Hong Kong

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by ads »

I don't the bal hole will affect where your track is but your ball fit will, i.e., length and pitches of MF and RF.
Adrian
Right handed
PAP: 5 1/8 up 3/4
Speed: 15.5 mph (Kegel Specto)
Rev: 350 RPM
Axis tilt: 18-20*
Axis rotation: 60*
User avatar
snick
BCU Graduate Layouts
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

Right now, the finger pitches on my balls point the fingers in exactly the same direction: 1/2 reverse middle, 1/4 reverse ring, with spans on the safety line. This gives me a very strong forward roll and high track.
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Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
SomyP
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by SomyP »

Simply try to get your hand a little bit around the ball more. Increasing your tilt by a 2-3 degrees should move your track away enough that you don't clip your fingers. I have 15 degrees of tilt with 55 degrees of rotation and have a medium track. I would like my tilt and rotation a little lower so my ball can burn enough energy to roll a little harder in the back ends, but a decrease in speed is more than enough to suffice for me having enough roll and hitting power in the pocket.
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snick
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

Thanks, I'll give that a try.
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
Dave800
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by Dave800 »

i wouldn't say you necessarily need a pin down ball, it wouldn't' be a bad idea though
you could also consider a pin in the finger on a stronger symmetric piece
the Gamebreaker 2 is a great rolly predictable piece and its 109 bucks

if you don't want to drill another ball, remember that surface is 50% of overall ball reaction
take the cyclone to 2000 and see if that helps keep it more predictable
you can try some more surface on a few pieces or even try 500 or 1000 + polish
Some of the new EBI products are lower underlying grit and then polish over that, it get the ball through the heads and still has some teeth left in it for down lane
User avatar
snick
BCU Graduate Layouts
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Posts: 759
Joined: August 31st, 2014, 8:00 pm
THS Average: 196
Sport Average: 180
Positive Axis Point: 5.5625" x .625 up
Speed: 17 off hand
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Physix
Medium Oil Ball: Storm Streetfight
Light Oil Ball: Rotogrip Hustle Pearl
Preferred Company: Rotogrip
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by snick »

I found that my Arson Low Flare ( 83º x 4.125" x 41º ) worked very nicely on the short pattern with surface sanded to 3000/no polish.

I drilled a 1x1 balance hole 1.5" below the midline in the VAL for the Cyclone.
I'll try adding some surface to it; maybe 3000 when my new pads arrive next week. (my existing 3000/4000 pads are totally shot)
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.5625 x .625 up
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 17º
Dave800
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Re: OK...I'm lost on this oil pattern

Post by Dave800 »

I have had the low flare since it came out, i was told to drill it stronger than you normally would due to it being on the weak side.
and that was true with the OBB surface and the clean n sheen polish on it
as soon as i started changing the surface to 3000- 2000 - 1000 dull, that ball was a good 3-5 boards stronger and a beast on the short patterns

I recently bowled a tournament where i knew 2nd shift was going to be burnt heads and a deep inside line. took the low flare to 4000 + polish + TRACK delayed reaction and was able to get it through the heads while staying further out than anyone else, very nice arcing motion

its still a ball that is in the bag come tournament time, I'm curious about the new Arson High Flare coming out......
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