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 Post subject: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:33 am Post Number: #1 Post
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Today at a 6 game tournament, i moved lanes to where a urethane had been used, we both bowled down 10 board. After my 1st shot i had no hook, moved right twice to get my ball got back to the pocket, half way through that game i started moving back left as the oil went, also the urethane carry down went also. So did my reactive soak up the urethane carry down? We all move 2 game blocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:40 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Impossible to say for sure but it sure seems that way.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:34 am Post Number: #3 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
Today at a 6 game tournament, i moved lanes to where a urethane had been used, we both bowled down 10 board. After my 1st shot i had no hook, moved right twice to get my ball got back to the pocket, half way through that game i started moving back left as the oil went, also the urethane carry down went also. So did my reactive soak up the urethane carry down? We all move 2 game blocks.


What ball were you using?


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:52 am Post Number: #4 Post
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Roto's Critical Theory, its a strong pearl. The urethane was on the pair for the 2 game block.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:54 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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It's interesting that when you moved to a new pair of lanes, your ball wouldn't hook, and you ASSUMED that it was oil-related. You might want to take a look at an article that I wrote recently for BTM entitled, "Of Black Holes and Other Unseen Obstacles." I have a hunch that you were seeing differences in topography rather than carry down from one urethane bowling ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:35 am Post Number: #6 Post
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At 250 RPM and 20mph off hand, pretty speed dominant to begin with I'd think.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:59 am Post Number: #7 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
It's interesting that when you moved to a new pair of lanes, your ball wouldn't hook, and you ASSUMED that it was oil-related. You might want to take a look at an article that I wrote recently for BTM entitled, "Of Black Holes and Other Unseen Obstacles." I have a hunch that you were seeing differences in topography rather than carry down from one urethane bowling ball.

Rob Mautner


Ok, i read your article and your right, the lanes can have a influence on your ball. My initial comment was the urethane carry down effected my ball hook, then i moved back left bowling to the pocket. So i stand by my comment of what i saw. I also bowl league with this bowler, and have the same issue with his carry down, after may be a couple of games i start leaving 5 pin then 5 & 7 pin, which i put down to his carry down effecting my hook. I just move out of his track area. But if your right...how do you know which is causing the effect??? i would just bowl away from that area...yes?

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:01 am Post Number: #8 Post
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56bird wrote:
At 250 RPM and 20mph off hand, pretty speed dominant to begin with I'd think.

Yes, that correct. So? i do know how to get to the pocket.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:45 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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Just saying with those stats it's not hard to throw past your break point. Whether topography, carry down, oiling inconsistency, whatever it is. Carry down someone else night not even notice could give you fits. I have trouble understanding how it could be a topography issue as this wouldn't go away as stated. I face some similar issues due to high tilt, always working to reduce this.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:54 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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When I measure the PAP on med-high-diff reactive balls, there is a flare pattern of oil on the surface.
When I measure the PAP on med-high-diff urethane balls, there is a flare pattern of oil on the surface.

Somebody please explain to me why the urethane ball causes carrydown and the reactive ball does not.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:07 am Post Number: #11 Post
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I will try one more time although every single time I’ve tried in the past my efforts were wasted.

One pictures a ball rolling, picking up oil and then depositing it downlane. One figures “it’s flaring so that doesn’t happen.” Fine.

Consider though that there are three phases of ball motion. Skid. Hook. Roll.

What is happening during skid phase?

I submit that the ball, because it is skidding, *pushes* the oil downlane in streaks. I imagine a little pillow of oil. Kind of like a bow of a boat. Kind of like you were dragging a golf club... a putter, say, head down thru the head oil. Delaying hook phase. Which delays roll phase.

I can’t *see* any of that happening. I can’t prove it. But I know what happens and I know (usually) what to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:28 am Post Number: #12 Post
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ballspoint wrote:
Ok, i read your article and your right, the lanes can have a influence on your ball. My initial comment was the urethane carry down effected my ball hook, then i moved back left bowling to the pocket. So i stand by my comment of what i saw. I also bowl league with this bowler, and have the same issue with his carry down, after may be a couple of games i start leaving 5 pin then 5 & 7 pin, which i put down to his carry down effecting my hook. I just move out of his track area. But if your right...how do you know which is causing the effect??? i would just bowl away from that area...yes?


Your misses at the breakpoint will tell you whether it's oil or topography. If it's topography, then your misses right won't come back or leave you a flat 10, and your misses left will hold pocket. If it's carry down, then your misses left will hold pocket, and your misses right will come back to strike.

From what I've seen, unless that one bowler throwing urethane is extremely accurate, hitting the same board at the end of the pattern on each shot, there will not be enough volume of oil in the streaks off the end of the pattern to affect reactive resin balls... particularly those with surface rather than polish.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:27 am Post Number: #13 Post
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RobMautner wrote:

Your misses at the breakpoint will tell you whether it's oil or topography. If it's topography, then your misses right won't come back or leave you a flat 10, and your misses left will hold pocket. If it's carry down, then your misses left will hold pocket, and your misses right will come back to strike.

From what I've seen, unless that one bowler throwing urethane is extremely accurate, hitting the same board at the end of the pattern on each shot, there will not be enough volume of oil in the streaks off the end of the pattern to affect reactive resin balls... particularly those with surface rather than polish.


Thank you for a answer which makes sense to me, on your last paragraph i will try to walk down the lane gutter (if i am allowed) next league night to check out the urethane bowlers track area at the end of the pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:59 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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For me it’s always subtle. Start to ring or flat ten more. Maybe a bucket-style leave on a shot I didn’t catch as well that might have been a mixing strike or 9. “Just wouldn’t hook”, I don’t know that I’ve seen that. Honestly in my case, if I had just rolled it more (not my strong suit with my tilt) or been matched up better...


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:34 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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snick wrote:
When I measure the PAP on med-high-diff reactive balls, there is a flare pattern of oil on the surface.
When I measure the PAP on med-high-diff urethane balls, there is a flare pattern of oil on the surface.

Somebody please explain to me why the urethane ball causes carrydown and the reactive ball does not.


Because the reactive ball absorbs the oil into the coverstock and only causes carrydown on the bowtie.

The urethane ball, when you wipe the ball, it smears oil all over the ball and doesnt absorb. Oil sits on the covestock of the ball. The entire track flare of the ball deposits oil on the lane, most notably past the end of the oil pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:43 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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Oh, that all-over greasy feeling after a few shots with urethane. Soon we won’t even be able to use “legal during competition” cleaners since there will be no such animal.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:50 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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that all over greasy feeling is non existent with a good shammy


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:49 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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So, you’re going to clean your *opponent’s* urethane ball in between shots with your shammy?

Maybe they are that much more absorbent than a clean micro-fiber, I don’t know... but it won’t help you when following urethane on a pair.


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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:17 am Post Number: #19 Post
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My urethane has 1/2" between the flare rings, I clean the ball religiously with a leather shammy, and if on heavy oil I will use a cleaner until the new rule goes into affect Aug 1 2019. I do not mess up the pattern with carry down any more than someone rolling reactive as long as I am diligent in my preshot routine. I have to remove the oil myself the reactive rollers let the ball do it for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Bowling on Urethane carry down.
 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:16 am Post Number: #20 Post
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56bird wrote:
So, you’re going to clean your *opponent’s* urethane ball in between shots with your shammy?

Maybe they are that much more absorbent than a clean micro-fiber, I don’t know... but it won’t help you when following urethane on a pair.


From my experience, which is not in the USA, is that people who play urethane regularly, especially in tournaments, wipe their urethane ball off religously.


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