The 2017 urethane ball thread

Bowling ball related topics including new products, arsenals and comparisons.

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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote: What I am saying is the Black appears stronger (front to back) because it comes out of the box at 500 grit surface, some people never change the out of box surface. The Purple comes 500, 1000, 2000... of course it's going to be weaker front to back and have more reaction in the back. What I would like to see is a more apples to apples comparison: both balls, same layout, both at 500 grit, then both balls, same layout both at 500, 1000, 2000. My hypothesis is that the Purple will be stronger front to back (earlier) if both balls were rolled at 500 grit.
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I have both and drilled both the same. Its amazing how I can hit the pocket with the purple hammer and then throw the black hammer on the same line and go 3-6 pocket.
It sounds like Purple is stronger. Even David O'Sullivan mentioned this in his Facebook Urethane tech talk. He said this ball (Purple) was significantly stronger than anything on the market when it came out, including the Black. So what does this mean? Stronger front to back, or stronger side to side, or both?
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by MegaMav »

It means its urethane.
I cant believe the micro analysis thats going on in this thread.
The urethane look can be done with reactive for high, medium and low track players.
There are no nasty side effects in/on/beyond the oil pattern with a reactive ball.

Take a medium to low level covered symmetrical ball.
Set the Pin at least 5.25" from PAP and set the VAL for medium and low track players below the fingers. Probably 70-80* VAL.

For high track players place it just above the fingers, likely 5.5" from PAP. Probably 45*ish VAL.
Sand the ball to a fresh 1000 pad by hand.

Boom, slow transitioning ball with surface. Very similar look.

I have no solution for full rollers, other than a low flare ball, low level cover and sanded.
Think Rack Attack or Fanatic BTU Pearl.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by gunso »

MegaMav wrote:It means its urethane.
I cant believe the micro analysis thats going on in this thread.
The urethane look can be done with reactive for high, medium and low track players.
There are no nasty side effects in/on/beyond the oil pattern with a reactive ball.

Take a medium to low level covered symmetrical ball.
Set the Pin at least 5.25" from PAP and set the VAL for medium and low track players below the fingers. Probably 70-80* VAL.

For high track players place it just above the fingers, likely 5.5" from PAP. Probably 45*ish VAL.
Sand the ball to a fresh 1000 pad by hand.

Boom, slow transitioning ball with surface. Very similar look.

I have no solution for full rollers, other than a low flare ball, low level cover and sanded.
Think Rack Attack or Fanatic BTU Pearl.
There is absolutely nothing similiar about the front to back ball motion you describe and a urethane ball. You could take the fanatic btu pearl and sand it with 360 grit and it would still read the lane 10 feet later than urethane.

Can't you believe the micro analysis on a thread named "the 2017 urethane ball thread" ? I would have expected a thread to attract the urethane lovers where they would argue how they see the urethane market. I've tried a lot of urethane and there is loads of different reactions available on the market. Do they share some charactheristics? Yes. But they are definetly different.

Of course there are side effects of throwing a reactive bowling ball. They are just different than when throwing a urethane bowling ball.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Come on Eric, let us love our urethanes, if anything this thread has brought participation to the forum and may attract more people to search and participate in different topics. I still have an undrilled Rack Attack Purple which I am saving for later when I finish with the physical game overhaul I'm going through now, it's a very smooth ball that if sanded will roll early, love it.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by davidjr113 »

It was very surprising on yesterdays bowling telecast to see Tom Smallwood’s Arsenal & see the Rack Attack Solid assigned a hook rating of 10, same as More Cash
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Radical says about the Rack Attack: "will provide strong midlane hook motion on medium to heavy oil", it's a great simple ball.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by scotts33 »

Urethane users. What I see is majority have hard time controlling ball on back end. Many have slow ball speed can't get resin to check up some because they have to much axis rotation and can't forward roll ball. Layouts and surface can help. I have a Crow that has as much track flare as any of the urethane aysmm's ie. Hot Cell etal. I can use it on medium house shots but what's the point when I can average 10 pins higher with the correct resin ball with better carry. To me it's a form of sand bagging. :mrgreen:

IMO urethane is for shorter lower volume patterns ala Cheetah or playing more of an outside line. Phil C wasn't too far off in his assessment.

Nothing special about urethane and those that use it aren't special either when changing techniques can help a bowler in the long run.

The main reason manufacturers are bringing out more urethane is it's the old/new craze and a way for them to sell more balls. That's the real factor with urethane. Make it...it's new some ball junky will buy it.

Eric/MegaMav's post was right on!
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by gunso »

I think the main reason manufactures are bringing out urethane is that for 75% of bowlers who throw on something that isn't the same old house shot again and again have a use for urethane. Their pros are demanding urethane and the international market is demanding urethane.

I can destroy a house shot with any ball I want and would never throw a urethane on something bone dry outside of 10 but on anything else 42 feet and under I want to have the urethane option for the fresh. There is a reason a majority of the pros bring a urethane bowling ball with them for tournaments and it is not because they are missing your ability to forward roll the ball.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

MegaMav wrote: The urethane look can be done with reactive for high, medium and low track players...
Take a medium to low level covered symmetrical ball.
Set the Pin at least 5.25" from PAP and set the VAL for medium and low track players below the fingers. Probably 70-80* VAL.
For high track players place it just above the fingers, likely 5.5" from PAP. Probably 45*ish VAL.
Sand the ball to a fresh 1000 pad by hand.
Boom, slow transitioning ball with surface. Very similar look.
I have no solution for full rollers, other than a low flare ball, low level cover and sanded.
Think Rack Attack or Fanatic BTU Pearl.
Phil and Mo told me that the Rack Attack would give me a urethane reaction in a resin ball.
I bought one, put the low flare full roller layout on it and tired it at different grits and I have yet to get it behave like urethane.
It will still go much longer than urethane and hook harder and faster in the backend.
Also when the Rack it is not reading the lane, strong urethane will read, even if the Rack and urethane ball are at the same grits.
So I can't really agree with your statement based on my personal experience with trying to get a resin ball to act like urethane.

Here is the Rack Attack in action. You can see how long it is.
Is definitely goes very straight, but the reaction is all in the back of the lane unlike urethane which is all in the front of the lane:
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

For a two hander urethane can be a good option for WTBA 2017 Stockholm and 2016 Stockholm, Beijing and Los Angeles.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by mrbean »

if anyone can throw 10 lbs there is a storm sword perfect on ebay (not from me)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Storm-Swor ... SwnTdaKCR8
also a 16 lb used storm pitch out
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Overseas- ... SwRbtaLtuf
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

Tonight I used the Widow in doubles league in our sweeps no tap
I was worried there would not be enough volume and there wasn't, but it was still more than last time.
The problem is, it took me too long to realize I could just jump in and play a shot through the oil the whole way and the Widow would get length but also turn the corner and roll up smooth.
I am always nervous to play in the oil the whole way, especially with urethane since I am a low rev bowler.
But the Widow is a different animal. Almost had a no tap 300 in game 3.
Was playing 14 out to 10 1/2 and back.
I tried using my Dark Legend on the same line but it was very over/under, but this way: a miss inside would overreact and a miss outside would not come back.
The Widow never had this problem.
I was also getting the most flare I have ever seen out of the Widow so far.

Check it out:
Widow Flare.JPG
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by MegaMav »

Nord wrote: Here is the Rack Attack in action. You can see how long it is.
Is definitely goes very straight, but the reaction is all in the back of the lane unlike urethane which is all in the front of the lane:
I spoke with a member here during our challenge league about this very point.
Urethane mostly comes heavily sanded OOB and with more mechanical friction due to the rough texture.
Reactives are a more fine finish, so they will read the lane later.
This is why urethane gets the reputation of "reads early".
People dont touch surfaces as much as they should.
Play with heavier surface on the rack attack.
Try a smooth 800 or 1000. It looks shiny in the video. Probably box finish.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

MegaMav wrote:
I spoke with a member here during our challenge league about this very point.
Urethane mostly comes heavily sanded OOB and with more mechanical friction due to the rough texture.
Reactives are a more fine finish, so they will read the lane later.
This is why urethane gets the reputation of "reads early".
People dont touch surfaces as much as they should.
Play with heavier surface on the rack attack.
Try a smooth 800 or 1000. It looks shiny in the video. Probably box finish.
Yes, it was at box finish in the video. I could take it down to 500 like my Widow.
I have tried it at 1000 but it still doesn't hook as heavy and early as the Widow or Midnight Scorcher, it will tend to still skid too long and at 1000 grit it won't react anymore in the back like it does when it has a higher grit such as 3000.
Isn't the whole point of reactive resin balls, to skid through the front, conserving energy for the big release down lane?
Isn't that how they carry so well, by having all that pop downlane?
If I dull a reactive ball then the backend pop is gone.
Isn't that like declawing it?

One thing I will say, when I went to my Dark Legend Solid and saw it snapping in the back and making control of the lane very difficult, it was a relief to go back to the Widow and its smooth arc and subtle roll. I had confidence again that if I made a good shot I would be rewarded rather than shocked and disappointed by a ball (Dark Legend) that did something I did not want, even though I thought I made a good shot. I am very tempted to get a Purple Hammer as a ball down option when I am forced left with the Widow.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by gunso »

MegaMav wrote:
I spoke with a member here during our challenge league about this very point.
Urethane mostly comes heavily sanded OOB and with more mechanical friction due to the rough texture.
Reactives are a more fine finish, so they will read the lane later.
This is why urethane gets the reputation of "reads early".
People dont touch surfaces as much as they should.
Play with heavier surface on the rack attack.
Try a smooth 800 or 1000. It looks shiny in the video. Probably box finish.
i've never been afraid of surface and at some point all my bowling balls have had a maroon scotch brite on them. none of them has ever given me a similiar look as urethane. the closest to it was probably a heavily sanded hammer scandal which I often switched to on cheetah when urethane read too early or didn't have enough bite at the end of the pattern. none of my weak solid reactives heavily sanded have ever given me a similiar front to back look
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by TonyPR »

Some reactives are designed to like you say "pop" in the back and some are designed to read early and be smooth, a big ball with a smooth early reading layout and surface, like for example a Tremendous or a Mako, can be a good option for short sport. Nord, the reason everything jumps in the back for you is your extremely slow speed combined with your 90* axis rotation. I teach my high level youth bowlers that when the pattern length isn't revealed, on a practice shot, to roll a ball doing the finish position drill through the middle of the lane with high axis rotation using a shiny reactive ball and to observe where the ball jumps, that will tell them the length.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote: Nord, the reason everything jumps in the back for you is your extremely slow speed combined with your 90* axis rotation.
Because of my release specs, isn't wise then to use balls that will give me more control rather than balls that will jump too much in the back? If there is enough volume, I have found I can play a down and in shot with my Dark Legend Solid and that jump works very well because the ball will ride the pattern and jump right into the pocket pretty consistently. But if the volume is lower then I can't play this shot with Resin or Urethane, so moving inside with urethane allows a smooth arc, while with resin I can get the over/under effect.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by MegaMav »

Tony is right. Use more surface on your reactives.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by MegaMav »

gunso wrote:none of my weak solid reactives heavily sanded have ever given me a similiar front to back look
You're not following directions then.
Symmetric, weak cover, weak layout, sanded.

NOT Strong cover, weak layout, sanded.
NOT Weak cover, strong layout, sanded.
NOT Weak cover, benchmark, sanded.

Symmetric, weak cover, weak layout, sanded.
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Re: The 2017 urethane ball thread

Post by Nord »

MegaMav wrote:
You're not following directions then.
Symmetric, weak cover, weak layout, sanded.

NOT Strong cover, weak layout, sanded.
NOT Weak cover, strong layout, sanded.
NOT Weak cover, benchmark, sanded.
Symmetric, weak cover, weak layout, sanded.
Sounds like my Rack Attack at 500 grit then.
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