Board index » General Forums » Ball Talk




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:52 pm Post Number: #1 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 445
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
Senior lefty, good solid, consistent bowler (former coach). Low speed/revs, but fairly well matched. Most of his equipment tends toward strong covers, high flaring cores with lower ratios, like 30-3.5-25, 40-4-40. Likes to knock the polish off with a 4000 grit on house shots like Stone Street with lower friction Pro-Anvilane.

Tends to have an ok look on the fresh, but starts leaving corner pins and has difficulty moving into the oil, and still creating angle. Is most comfortable playing 1st to 2nd arrow, but working on that.

Speed off hand: 14 mph
Rev: 160-175 rpm
Tilt: 15*
Rotation: 45*
PAP: 4.25 x +0.5

He's purchased a Paradox Trilogy (low RG, hybrid cover) and would like something that goes longer and is stronger off the break point. I have him at 95 total, with 1.5:1 ratio for a benchmark, but unsure how to adjust for overall low speed/revs and lower traffic on left side.

Based on my experience with my own Trilogy, BW Legend, etc. I would be tempted to go with a "long and strong" with a longer pin (5+) and something like 70x5x35. Get the pin closer to the fingers and drill them a little deeper to reduce the differential a bit. Alternately, a lower flare layout with a shorter pin but my personal experience is mixed.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:27 pm Post Number: #2 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3046
Reputation: 443
Reputation Power: 5
stevespo wrote:
Senior lefty, good solid, consistent bowler (former coach). Low speed/revs, but fairly well matched. Most of his equipment tends toward strong covers, high flaring cores with lower ratios, like 30-3.5-25, 40-4-40. Likes to knock the polish off with a 4000 grit on house shots like Stone Street with lower friction Pro-Anvilane.

Tends to have an ok look on the fresh, but starts leaving corner pins and has difficulty moving into the oil, and still creating angle. Is most comfortable playing 1st to 2nd arrow, but working on that.

Speed off hand: 14 mph
Rev: 160-175 rpm
Tilt: 15*
Rotation: 45*
PAP: 4.25 x +0.5

He's purchased a Paradox Trilogy (low RG, hybrid cover) and would like something that goes longer and is stronger off the break point. I have him at 95 total, with 1.5:1 ratio for a benchmark, but unsure how to adjust for overall low speed/revs and lower traffic on left side.

Based on my experience with my own Trilogy, BW Legend, etc. I would be tempted to go with a "long and strong" with a longer pin (5+) and something like 70x5x35. Get the pin closer to the fingers and drill them a little deeper to reduce the differential a bit. Alternately, a lower flare layout with a shorter pin but my personal experience is mixed.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

Steve
Mo loweres the ratios a little for the left side to avoid squirting he calls it. For long and strong layouts, he shortens the pin a bit. The 5" pin would be a mid-lane layout pin. 5" makes the ball face up early where you want long.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:49 pm Post Number: #3 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 445
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
Thanks, that was exactly what I was wondering about.

The pin to pap on asyms continues to confuse me. I understand the conventional wisdom about longer pins, but my experience runs counter. What I am finding is that 5"+ pins on strong asyms are producing less flare for me than a 4" pin. My 4" pin Paradox has 5-6" of flare and my 5" pin Trilogy has perhaps 3-4". The tighter track is very noticeable. Perhaps surface and pin closer to fingers is also a factor?

Perhaps something more like 55x4.5x30?, 60x4.5x35?

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:16 pm Post Number: #4 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3046
Reputation: 443
Reputation Power: 5
stevespo wrote:
Thanks, that was exactly what I was wondering about.

The pin to pap on asyms continues to confuse me. I understand the conventional wisdom about longer pins, but my experience runs counter. What I am finding is that 5"+ pins on strong asyms are producing less flare for me than a 4" pin. My 4" pin Paradox has 5-6" of flare and my 5" pin Trilogy has perhaps 3-4". The tighter track is very noticeable. Perhaps surface and pin closer to fingers is also a factor?

Perhaps something more like 55x4.5x30?, 60x4.5x35?

Steve

Little Joey Rimshot (Joey Cerrar) told me that he liked to put a very long pin on too high of angles. The high ratio /higher totals seemed to work good with the roll forward for his bowlers. Blueprint followed what Mo has said though. It depends on the drilling angle. See page 4 where with a 90* drilling angle it does as you have noticed, but with a 50* it does not. page #4 is with a 30* Val angle. see also large VAL angles page #6. http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ntLine.pdf
Lower totals do fit in better with the balls he has now.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:01 pm Post Number: #5 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 445
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
Thanks. I don't see a 90* drill in that document (old Gradient Line Balance Hole), but I do understand what you are talking about. The longer pin balances off the larger ratio/totals.

My own experiments are with lower ratio/total benchmark layouts. Same core, different covers. Possibly something I am doing with my release to change tilt and rotation and that is compensating as well.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:58 pm Post Number: #6 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3046
Reputation: 443
Reputation Power: 5
stevespo wrote:
Thanks. I don't see a 90* drill in that document (old Gradient Line Balance Hole), but I do understand what you are talking about. The longer pin balances off the larger ratio/totals.

My own experiments are with lower ratio/total benchmark layouts. Same core, different covers. Possibly something I am doing with my release to change tilt and rotation and that is compensating as well.

Steve

sorry. My copy and paste isn't working properly. this is the one I thought I had copied:
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... lained.pdf


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:58 pm Post Number: #7 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 445
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
That's a great article. I'll try and get some data from my Paradoxs and measure the flare using a consistent target and release.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Paradox Trilogy for Senior Lefty
 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:06 am Post Number: #8 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 445
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
I decided to use 55 x 5 x 30 on the Trilogy. He was able to use it on Thursday night with very good results. Never missed the pocket in games 1-2, although was slow to move when he started leaving 6 pins and had a couple of splits in game 3.

Definitely provides a new motion (more angular) for him and is very satisfied. Should be a great ball with a bit more experience with it and being proactive with moves to stay ahead of the transition.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

Board index » General Forums » Ball Talk


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: