Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

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Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by kajmk » July 4th, 2012, 10:30 pm

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Par Bowling: The Challenge
Thomas C. Kouros (Author)

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Last edited by kajmk on February 8th, 2013, 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » July 5th, 2012, 5:56 am

PAR BOWLING: The Challenge is "the bible". Get it. Read it. Read it again and again and again....
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by FruitFly » July 5th, 2012, 11:14 am

This thing just overflows with information.
If you want your "master" in bowling: Read this!
~ Frerk


"Obviously you're not a golfer" (The Dude)

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by kajmk » February 21st, 2015, 4:55 pm

Give a person a meal and you have fed him for a day.
Teach that person how to farm, harvest, cultivate, fish, hunt, and you give the person the means for lifetime sustenance.
Tom provides sustenance.

This book is still available. I've seen it from 20.00 to 40.00

Insofar as the physical aspects of bowling, if you master this book, you could realistically answer almost any question pertaining to the sport.

Aside fro direct answers, this book provides the means to understand and assemble solutions by virtue of the near tototallity of bowling knowledge.

The laws of physics have not changed.

Cheers!
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by Viper » February 22nd, 2015, 4:29 am

If you had only time for one book on bowling this is the one. I have read and re-read this book numerous times and I always get something useful from it. As my game has developed I find it an even better read. The discussion on mid-roll is priceless.
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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by pastordug » March 4th, 2015, 11:11 pm

I thought it was a bit outdated for todays game. Very few places have wooden lanes and very few use Urethane as primary unless of course the shot dictates. For example there is much more emphasis on playing the break point today due to the lane surface and steroid balls. And when is the last time you have played 10 to 12! lol While there was some useful info there are several more books I would go to besides this one. I might suggest a revision? Just my 3 cents....

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » March 5th, 2015, 7:34 pm

Pastordug-
I do enjoy reading your posts and thank you for taking the time to make some interesting observations on this site but if I may, let me provide the readers with an alternative perspective.
pastordug wrote:I thought it was a bit outdated for todays game
It is a "bit" outdated but given the immense volume of insightful information in the Tome one can get a great deal of valid knowledge from it. I will stand by my highest recommendation for the read. PAR BOWLING: The Challenge IS the Bible. One does not read it necessarily as fundamentalist truth but as a sacred text that you have an ongoing relation with. From a historical perspective: ongoing commentaries and other works should NOT be ignored. PAR BOWLING: The Challenge is THE foundational read.
pastordug wrote: I might suggest a revision
Tom has admitted to me the game is of far greater depth than the one he wrote about. He has informed me that he has done some rough drafts for a revision but at the age of 88/89 the project may be overwhelming for him.

Similar to the sacred texts in religion and the time honored works in philosophy, one does not ignore the great works in any field of interest. One reads and studies them to find new insights that have validity and creditably for your life-world. While the game passed Bill Taylor and Dick Ritger by, their works still offer value. And while urethane, in most cases, is not the first choice in ball selection, I consider Don Johnson's A PRO GUIDE TO BOWLING Volume 1 and 2; Jowdy's and Holmen's MAXIUM BOWLING; and Sybervison: BOWLING with Marshall and Johnny P essential views in order to start getting an insightful understanding of the sport. Historical works and commentaries DO offer essential and functional value and should not be ignored. And while that is my 5c for the day, I'll give you a penny for your thoughts.
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by pastordug » March 5th, 2015, 8:45 pm

Thanks for the remarks. I must admit that from your point of view the book does offer all that and a bag of chips! I took up bowling later in life so it did allow me to see what and where much of the debate comes from today concerning equipment.
I think I expected a book that was geared towards bowling today by addressing issues such as reading the lanes, learning how to adjust and the such on the conditions bowled today. As you mentioned the game has changed drastically since the book first published. Again, my expectations exceeded the Authors intentions for the period and when that happens someone is disappointed. Otherwise the book is filled with history, facts, fundamentals and much more that anyone could benefit from. However, it would not be the first book I would recommend to bowlers starting today unless it was for history. Just my opinion.
Btw I have both Jowdy's and Johnson's book. I might suggest Mark Bakers "The System" in either the book or DVD.
Keep up the good work and bowl well!

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by georgeh » March 5th, 2015, 9:09 pm

The best $2.99 I ever spent on a new book. Oh wait, that was 'Par Bowling' ( black cover, the prelude). At the time it was the most comprehensive bowling text book around. It now sits dog eared, spine broken (but complete) and I still find valuable info every time I pick it up and read a bit. Any beginner to intermediate bowler will learn something in every chapter.

I intended to buy 'The Challenge' when it first came out, but it took me longer than I expected to actually buy the book. Cost about $30 on Amazon several years ago. It's not as dog eared as the black cover but it is still a well used text. It definitely shows it's age concerning the modern game, but I don't believe there is a better written, easy to understand book for any league bowler that wants to improve their basic game.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » March 5th, 2015, 9:12 pm

pastordug wrote:Again, my expectations exceeded the Authors intentions for the period and when that happens someone is disappointed
Understood.
pastordug wrote:Btw I have both Jowdy's and Johnson's book. I might suggest Mark Bakers "The System" in either the book or DVD
I, by no means, did not intent to exclude Mark's THE GAME CHANGER or THE SYSTEM or Norm Duke's important video of a couple of years ago. All three are essential for a more complete understanding of the contemporary game. It just, from my perspective, the historical works can still give us insightful knowledge and provide us with a foundation to ask meaningful questions and carry on credible conversations on any topic including bowling-as-a-sport.
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by kajmk » March 8th, 2015, 12:39 am

Just a reminder, we have a number of rate/review topics on the forum.
I also added a spot on the wiki with direct links.
If you'd like to see the others, you can start at this link and go from there.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... l_Material" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Capture.JPG
This link has a page from the Kouros Book with what he called "The Bowling Tree"
Though far from an index, it provides a flavor for what the book covers.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10407&hilit=tree" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No discussion of contemporary bowling instruction would in my opinion be complete without a nod and tip of the cap to Brian Voss for his book "Bare Bones Bowling".
I'd love to see e-reader formats for the Voss book as well as Kouros and others.

The Hat Trick of contemporary Bowling Instruction in my opinion.
Dukes video - Bakers Book/Video as an item - Voss's book.
Do not overlook Brian's book.

In any form of research and quest for knowledge, one should never limit or confine oneself to any one or few sources. No one source is likely to resonate with everyone nor is it likely to be infinite in content.
This is only one of the reasons I've created posts requesting reviews from our members.
Those posts are intended to serve as does a light house does for mariners.
I continue to lament the utter dearth of response, but it so well lends credence to what book store staff have repeatedly told me about the public's consumption of bowling instructional material.
This is not a new phenomena, though.

Just like this forum, do not keep these instructional gems a secret.
Knowledge is the key.

Here is a quote from a post recently made in this forum

"I just cant get my head around how addressing all my poor approach habits will affect the release."
see viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10798" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you'd like to lend some words of well intended enlightenment to that bowler, give it a go.
;)
Mark Baker likened the release as being analogous to the center piece of a puzzle, and that's pretty much what I learned from coaches that tried to make a bowler out of me over the years.
Too many of us put the cart before the horse; education is the key.

I know this is a further divergence, but there are a number of internet resources and we also mention them on the wiki.
The videos by Jason Doust, Dean Champs, Richard Shockley, the articles by Ron Clifton, Joe Slowinski, just to name a few.

Jim Merrell continues to mentor bowlers via his analysis. With the value he adds to bowlers, he should be able to quit his day job.

I'm glad to see some discussion of bowling educational material. Again, don't keep it a secret nor the need for it. A lot of good points and observations have been rendered.

Take care all!
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It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » March 8th, 2015, 10:20 pm

kajmk wrote:No discussion of contemporary bowling instruction would in my opinion be complete without a nod and tip of the cap to Brian Voss for his book "Bare Bones Bowling".
kajmk wrote:The Hat Trick of contemporary Bowling Instruction in my opinion. Dukes video - Bakers Book/Video as an item - Voss's book. Do not overlook Brian's book.
Total agreement- add anything by Mo Pinel as well.
kajmk wrote:In any form of research and quest for knowledge, one should never limit or confine oneself to any one or few sources. No one source is likely to resonate with everyone nor is it likely to be infinite in content
The more one studies the greater chances of a productive Q&A one can have with one's self and with others. Thus true learning comes about.
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by pastordug » March 18th, 2015, 3:52 am

After reviewing this book recently I wanted to make another remark in regards to the authors suggestion dealing with reviving the sport of bowling verses just recreational bowling. He says that bowlers should "demand" that a more challenging shot be put out in order to make a person "learn" the sport of bowling. He "assumes" that those who have a trouble bowling the inflated scores will resort to practicing.
Here is the psychological problem with this approach. Most "men" will only stay with something they believe they can be competitive at. Take golf for instances. Many a men have started only to stop due to the "practice" involved in becoming somewhat competitive. Companies know this and thus the equipment which make golf much more "forgiving."
When we put out a "sport shot" for our scratch league, after letting everyone know their scores WILL go down and everyone agreed to give it a go. After the FIRST week guess how many didn't come back? It's difficult to keep a league together when almost HALF the league QUITS because the spot is too hard.
So I am not sure that is the answer. I have come to the conclusion that bowling is regional also. That idea might work in a "bowling" area. I don't know. But here in the South it doesn't and it won't right now.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by kajmk » March 18th, 2015, 4:24 am

Doug, have you read the topic on leagues in Sweden?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10202&p=79067&hilit=sweden#p79067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by pastordug » March 18th, 2015, 9:27 pm

kajmk wrote:Doug, have you read the topic on leagues in Sweden?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10202&p=79067&hilit=sweden#p79067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Went back and watched the video and read the comments. My take is they are embracing bowling as we did some 40 years ago (give or take 10 years). I wonder what will happen in say 10 years? 20 years? I would like to think they will get stronger but isn't that what happened here?
I have NEVER seen a Bowling Center here in the US with a dressing room and showers either!
I will continue trying to promote the sport of bowling by working with Youth. Every Saturday morning as we do our stretching I ask a simple question: Why do we do this? And in unison they answer "Because bowling is a SPORT!" I just think we have gone too far to turn back the clock. Not being negative just giving my point of view based on what I have seen. I believe there will always be a "sports" side of bowling but not to the degree it was before.
In the book the author states that if you make the shot harder and you lose bowlers so be it. I am certain this guy is not a proprietor trying to make his house payment or feed his kids.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » March 18th, 2015, 10:04 pm

pastordug wrote: I wonder what will happen in say 10 years? 20 years? I would like to think they will get stronger but isn't that what happened here
The European attitude was prevalent in this country, without showers, from the 30s to the 70s. They will remain strong so long as they do not go recreational.
pastordug wrote:Every Saturday morning as we do our stretching I ask a simple question: Why do we do this? And in unison they answer "Because bowling is a SPORT!"
PERFECT!!!!!!!
pastordug wrote:I believe there will always be a "sports" side of bowling but not to the degree it was before.
Maybe, maybe not- the sport WILL make a comeback in 6-8 years. "Recreationalism" WILL consume itself very soon.
pastordug wrote: I am certain this guy is not a proprietor trying to make his house payment or feed his kids.
If you are referring to PAR BOWLING's Tom Kouros, he was a proprietor the last time I talked to him a few years ago. But since he is approaching 90, he may have given it up.
-Gary Parsons
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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by Nord » March 19th, 2015, 5:49 am

pastordug wrote:...And when is the last time you have played 10 to 12! lol...
I am a Full Roller, use urethane on a light house shot exclusively and 10 to 12 is my "A game."
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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by Dax » March 19th, 2015, 5:13 pm

Guru - I shared your passion for bowling history.

Whilst the basics are still intact for that (and most books of that era), its relevance to today's game is questionable. I gave it 3 and I am more inclined to go with pastordug POV
"You see only what you look for; you recognize only what you know"

There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by guruU2 » March 19th, 2015, 10:06 pm

Dax wrote: its relevance to today's game is questionable.
I repeat- PAR BOWLING: The Challenge IS the Bible for the sport of bowling. If one reads it with a fundamentalist interpretation than one misses the point. If one reads it as a sacred text that inspires wonder, questions, conversation about the sport than it has done its job. Most of the content in the tome is still relevant. Have we gone "beyond" it- yes we have/no we haven't. Like any body of knowledge that is "living"- it grows and bowling is "bigger" than PAR BOWLING but it is still highly recommended for those who are beyond the "beginner" stage. If you can obtain a copy, by all means get it and have a dialogue with this sterling piece of work.
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: Request for your rating of - Par Bowling: The Challenge

Post by kajmk » March 20th, 2015, 11:36 pm

guruU2 wrote:
I repeat- PAR BOWLING: The Challenge IS the Bible for the sport of bowling. If one reads it with a fundamentalist interpretation than one misses the point. If one reads it as a sacred text that inspires wonder, questions, conversation about the sport than it has done its job. Most of the content in the tome is still relevant. Have we gone "beyond" it- yes we have/no we haven't. Like any body of knowledge that is "living"- it grows and bowling is "bigger" than PAR BOWLING but it is still highly recommended for those who are beyond the "beginner" stage. If you can obtain a copy, by all means get it and have a dialogue with this sterling piece of work.
I could not agree more. To limit ones understanding of the game to the changes that occurred at a timeline is to limit ones adaptive and inventive range.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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