Refreshing surface, how often?

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Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by BackInTheGame »

I posted this over on BR but I figured I would see what people have to say over here as well.

My C-System 3.5 after 6 games (plus shadow balls) seemed to have lost it's "pop" yesterday. I heard somewhere that the 3.5 and perhaps other balls may need to be refreshed after 6-9 games to maintain OOB reaction. I do have a spinner (although its not an innovative spinner) so I can do this if I need to, but it "seems" excessive.

What do you think and what is the proper way to refresh? 5-10 seconds per side with light pressure using 500 abralon/siaair and then same with 4000?

Thanks
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by MegaMav »

Depends how much wear on the surface of the bowling ball there is.
If I have something at 1500 grit, and it appears to be getting shiny, I refresh the surface.
It usually ends up being every 16 games, or 4 weeks for me.

My method for refreshing the surface, I typically do 5 strokes each side for 6 sides.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by RevZiLLa »

I leave it alone until I am no longer getting the reaction I want. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by MegaMav »

RevZiLLa wrote:I leave it alone until I am no longer getting the reaction I want. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
For that one week you break it, you cant fix it.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Mo Pinel »

BackInTheGame wrote:I posted this over on BR but I figured I would see what people have to say over here as well.

My C-System 3.5 after 6 games (plus shadow balls) seemed to have lost it's "pop" yesterday. I heard somewhere that the 3.5 and perhaps other balls may need to be refreshed after 6-9 games to maintain OOB reaction. I do have a spinner (although its not an innovative spinner) so I can do this if I need to, but it "seems" excessive.

What do you think and what is the proper way to refresh? 5-10 seconds per side with light pressure using 500 abralon/siaair and then same with 4000?

Thanks
Good pros redo their surfaces after every block. The further your surface is from 2000, the more often it needs attention. Ballspinner, please address the technique portion of this thread. You're our expert!
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by ballspinner »

If you are serious about your game... you should refresh the surface every time when you finish bowling. This gets the dirt off of the ball and helps prevent oil absorption in to the cover.

The surface of the ball begins to change due to friction as soon as it is put in to play. To make accurate decisions you need to know what type of ball you have (cover nature) what layout it has and what surface is on your ball. Refreshing the surface after every block or set is the only way to be sure you have what you think you have on the ball.

You should use brand new or very close to brand new Sia Air, Abralon Pads or sand paper every time out if you really want it right. That is the only way to guarantee the surface. Some may say this is expensive - so is losing.

The corrct procedure to refresh is to go 1 number more aggressive than the final surface and then finish with the final surface. Cut it harder and finish it lighter. Some manufacturers recommend cutting it hard with 500 and finishing soft with 2000 or 4000 which works great on some balls. Just make sure that whatever you did originally you can repeat it so write it down. This way the separation between the balls in your arsenal will remain the way you set them originally. Doing it this way allows you to trust that the decisions you make will work.

Also, since we are on ball maintenance, for a very good bowler who is serious about their game...they should put the ball in the Revivor after every 20 games or less. Keep the ball fresh.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by BackInTheGame »

ballspinner wrote:If you are serious about your game... you should refresh the surface every time when you finish bowling. This gets the dirt off of the ball and helps prevent oil absorption in to the cover.

The surface of the ball begins to change due to friction as soon as it is put in to play. To make accurate decisions you need to know what type of ball you have (cover nature) what layout it has and what surface is on your ball. Refreshing the surface after every block or set is the only way to be sure you have what you think you have on the ball.

You should use brand new or very close to brand new Sia Air, Abralon Pads or sand paper every time out if you really want it right. That is the only way to guarantee the surface. Some may say this is expensive - so is losing.

The corrct procedure to refresh is to go 1 number more aggressive than the final surface and then finish with the final surface. Cut it harder and finish it lighter. Some manufacturers recommend cutting it hard with 500 and finishing soft with 2000 or 4000 which works great on some balls. Just make sure that whatever you did originally you can repeat it so write it down. This way the separation between the balls in your arsenal will remain the way you set them originally. Doing it this way allows you to trust that the decisions you make will work.

Also, since we are on ball maintenance, for a very good bowler who is serious about their game...they should put the ball in the Revivor after every 20 games or less. Keep the ball fresh.

Excellent info! I'm not a serious enough bowler to justify refreshing after every set, but 6-9 games sounds somewhat reasonable. I'll need to stock up on siaair pads, lol.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by n00dlejester »

This is what I do. I bowl two leagues a week and practice at least once a week:
Clean ball with a cleaner after every set. This will help your ball absorb less oil after you're done bowling. For every ~20 games on a ball, I will use a spinner and a much stronger cleaner. I personally use Clean'n'Dull. This knocks off lane shine from sanded/solid covers, and restores the tack of shiny/pearl covers. For every ~60 games on a ball, I will chuck it into the Rejuvenator oven to extract the oil that did see into the cover.

For surface touch-ups, I will hit them when I feel that it's time. If my Clean'n'Dull step doesn't effectively clean the cover, I will hit it with an Abralon pad or hit it with some polish. Then, every 120 games or so (usually a bit more because I am lazy), I will do a resurface starting off with a 500 Abralon pad and going up the ladder until I'm back to the surface I want. Only when a ball is completely seemingly dead is when I will do a complete resurface with the cutters my pro-shop operator has. I have only ever had to do this once to a ball the past 3 years.

I hope this helps.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by magicmike »

Great info guys, I tend to hit my balls after 15-20 games on the spinner with the final step of the finish, like if I have a ball at 4000, every 15-20 i just touch it up with it. Around 40-50 I use the revivor and do a hard cut and finish the surface, then around 75-100 another revivor trip and full resurface.

Using that and cleaning after every set i've barely noticed ball death, i've seen some balls mellow a bit, but nothing major.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Motogp69 »

I'm sure this has been beaten to death, but if we don't have access to a rejuvenator oven in our area is the hot water method effective? and if so what is the most effective process?

How long?
How much dawn?
What surface should the balls be taken to in order to open the pores?
Should the balls be scrubbed at all during the bath or left alone till taken out then cleaned with simple green?

Thanks ahead of time
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Graaille »

Yes it has, but not yet on these boards.

Does it work - yes. Does it work as well as a Revivor? It can but isn't as efficient.

Ball prep work is exactly the same - sand on all 4 sides w/360 to open up the pores. Plug the finger, thumb and xholes - wine corks work well for me, others have reported decent use out of duct tape. Your mileage may vary.

Here's where philosophies differ - you have the bucket method and the dishwasher method. For both you have to know - not guess - know the temp of your hot water mains. If it's 125-130, you're in business - if too low and you can't adjust it - it will take much longer to do, and not pull out all the oil. If too hot and you can't adjust it at the tank, then you've got to gauge how much cold water to add in to make it around 130 degrees.

Bucket method: Simplest method I've heard is to put the ball in a 5 gallon bucket, then put that bucket in the bathtub. Fill the bucket to just over the ball with warm (warm = body temp) water. Add in a couple of shots of liquid soap (Dawn is what I used), then leave the hot water on a very slow stream and turn off the cold water alltogether. What you're doing here is bringing the ball up to temperature. Keep going until the water has overflowed the top for a minute or so. Then turn off the hot water and let stand for 5 minutes. Dump most of the water from the bucket (ball level again), and if the hot water is at 125-130 degrees, turn back on the hot water again, again a slow stream. Do this 3x w/Soap, 2x w/out soap to rinse. Set the ball aside, clean the bucket completely, put the ball back in, refill w/hot water - then walk away. The Thermal mass of the water will allow the ball to cool down to room temp slower and lessen the potential of cracking. Afterwards, clean the ball w/an approved cleaner, return the surface to whatever you prefer, then set the ball aside for 48 hours to fully dry.

Dishwasher method: Put ball(s) in the lower tray of the dishwasher (get approval from spouse if needed), put the machine on the longest wash cycle, soap is neither encouraged nor discouraged - I never noticed any difference. Make sure the dry cycle is on air dry instead of heat dry, run the balls thru 2x - the second time don't open the dishwasher - just come back in another hour (the closed system will cool down slow enough that cracking potential is lessened - not eliminated especially in thin shelled balls - but lessened). Again, bring the ball(s) back up to preferred surface and set aside for 48 hours to fully dry.

As a bonus - I'll throw in the DIY Revivor Oven.
Find or buy a circular food dehydrator and a 3 gallon circular terracotta planter. Line the planter w/aluminum foil, put the ball on the dehydrator and turn it on, and cover w/the planter. Open up every 20 minutes, wipe down the ball, keep it going as long as you like - probably a minimum of 2-3 hours though. Once the ball stops sweating, hit it with your standard cleaner, return it to your favorite surface, and set aside for a couple of hours.

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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Motogp69 »

Wow, I really should of thought of that, because my wife watches Good Eats all the time, and I remember him making a low grade smoker that works like that. I will probably go with the dehydrator method. Do you know what temp yours gets up to?
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by MattCosta7 »

I just started getting the hang of some day to day maintaining of my balls :D

I typically will do a towel wipe before every throw, with a surface cleaner before it goes back in the bag.

When i get home, I give a deeper cleaning just to ensure no oil sits in there. I've seen other petroleum based products degrade with time, and wouldn't want that junk in my cover.

I give a surface refresher every 3-4 sets. 9 - 12 games (or after any longer sets ie long format tournaments). Every 45 games or so, I take it down to 360, do a deeper cleaning, then to 500, and finish it with whatever products.

Looks like i'm going to be finding a revivor, or looking into building a similar device in the near future.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Graaille »

Motogp69 wrote:Wow, I really should of thought of that, because my wife watches Good Eats all the time, and I remember him making a low grade smoker that works like that. I will probably go with the dehydrator method. Do you know what temp yours gets up to?
This is one that I've not built myself - but several people who've used it say that the temp doesn't really get above 100 degrees - unless you're doing it outside during the spring/summer. Then you might require a thermal probe that Alton espouses every household having to make sure temps don't get out of line.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by MattInTheHat »

I built a food dehydrator oil extractor and the problem I ran into was that it either didn't get hot enough, or it got too hot for my liking.

With a decent seal the inside would get too hot, since the heating element was constantly running. There also wasn't very good airflow within the planter since the only fan was on the bottom of the unit. I added a fan to the top of the planter, blowing air down, which helped the circulation but didn't help the temperature issues. On the flip side, when I tried venting some of the air through small holes in the planter, it wouldn't hold enough heat to be effective and the heat varied a lot from top to bottom.

From my own research and experimentation I've found that without accurate thermostatic control there isn't an effective and safe way of baking the oil out of a ball using a heating element. The only effective and safe way of doing it without such control is to use the hot water bath method.
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Re: Refreshing surface, how often?

Post by Mo Pinel »

MattInTheHat wrote:I built a food dehydrator oil extractor and the problem I ran into was that it either didn't get hot enough, or it got too hot for my liking.

With a decent seal the inside would get too hot, since the heating element was constantly running. There also wasn't very good airflow within the planter since the only fan was on the bottom of the unit. I added a fan to the top of the planter, blowing air down, which helped the circulation but didn't help the temperature issues. On the flip side, when I tried venting some of the air through small holes in the planter, it wouldn't hold enough heat to be effective and the heat varied a lot from top to bottom.

From my own research and experimentation I've found that without accurate thermostatic control there isn't an effective and safe way of baking the oil out of a ball using a heating element. The only effective and safe way of doing it without such control is to use the hot water bath method.
The key to effective oil extraction WITHOUT negatively affecting the polymer is thermostatic control and good air circulation to guarantee a constant temperature within the chamber. My preference: THE REVIVOR OVEN!
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