Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
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- MattInTheHat
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Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
I've created a short video with suggestions for the best position to shoot video from when wanting to measure axis tilt and rotation. Let me know what you think, if it needs any refinement or corrections. I will add it to the wiki once the info is approved.
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]
- MathIsTruth
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Excellent work!! We appreciate your contributions to the forum and the wiki. If I have video questions I know who I am calling!!!!
- kellytehuna
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Ghostbusters? No, wait! I know this one...MathIsTruth wrote:Excellent work!! We appreciate your contributions to the forum and the wiki. If I have video questions I know who I am calling!!!!
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15lb Morich DestroyR, Mania, Perpetual Motion, Craze, Frenzy, Mojave
15lb Radical Yeti
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- Mo Pinel
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
YOU ARE A VERY POSITIVE ASSET TO THIS FORUM! YOU HAVE MY GRATITUDE!MattInTheHat wrote:I've created a short video with suggestions for the best position to shoot video from when wanting to measure axis tilt and rotation. Let me know what you think, if it needs any refinement or corrections. I will add it to the wiki once the info is approved.
[youtube][/youtube]
Combine this with the transparent overlay of the axis rotation and axis tilt grid and there's everything necessary to accurately analyze axis rotation, axis tilt, and initial rev rate.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- Buggs41
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
MattInTheHat,
That is very kind of you to provide for us. I will be getting more video at practices now.
Thanks!
That is very kind of you to provide for us. I will be getting more video at practices now.
Thanks!
- MattInTheHat
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- Positive Axis Point: 4 9/16 -> 15/16 ^
- Speed: 17-17.5 off hand
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: TR2
- Medium Oil Ball: QZ1 / TX1
- Light Oil Ball: RX1
- Preferred Company: Motiv
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Thanks! I'm glad I could help out in my own little way.
I am also willing to do this analysis for anyone who doesn't have video editing or photo editing software. Just get the video to me somehow (post online, email, ftp, snail mail, etc) and let me know about it. I should be able to work with most video formats so even if you just download the clip directly from your camera and send me that file I should be able to use it, and the higher quality the video the more accurate the final analysis will be (it doesn't need to be HD, most important factor is clarity / lack of motion blur). I know my email can handle up to 10mb at a time, I am pretty sure it can handle more but haven't tested it.
I've also updated the wiki page with a few more tips, and added a page of tips for shooting video for general bowler assessment. WIki Page --> http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... reRevsTilt
I am also willing to do this analysis for anyone who doesn't have video editing or photo editing software. Just get the video to me somehow (post online, email, ftp, snail mail, etc) and let me know about it. I should be able to work with most video formats so even if you just download the clip directly from your camera and send me that file I should be able to use it, and the higher quality the video the more accurate the final analysis will be (it doesn't need to be HD, most important factor is clarity / lack of motion blur). I know my email can handle up to 10mb at a time, I am pretty sure it can handle more but haven't tested it.
I've also updated the wiki page with a few more tips, and added a page of tips for shooting video for general bowler assessment. WIki Page --> http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... reRevsTilt
- BackInTheGame
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
If I ever find the time to go practice, I will have to bring my video camera and do this. I really need to get a better, more accurate idea of my tilt, rotation, and rev rate.
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Nice job. Makes me want to go borrow someone's video camera.
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
How can I get this overlay?
- MegaMav
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... verlay.pngproshop wrote:How can I get this overlay?
- MattInTheHat
- Member
- Posts: 420
- Joined: January 21st, 2010, 3:33 pm
- THS Average: 201
- Positive Axis Point: 4 9/16 -> 15/16 ^
- Speed: 17-17.5 off hand
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: TR2
- Medium Oil Ball: QZ1 / TX1
- Light Oil Ball: RX1
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: TX
Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Ive done a couple more bowlers using the transparent overlay and have noticed a couple of things. First is that being lined up just right both with the video camera and with the tape on the PAP is critical. Even just a little off (and I mean little...fractions of an inch) and the overlay could be off by 5° or more. I've confirmed this with armadillo measurements of tilt done at the time of shooting the video.
Secondly, I've noticed that if the PAP marking is off slightly that letting the ball settle on the lane for a few extra feet after the release seems to give a better axis tilt reading. I'm not sure exactly why this is (love physics but not so good at it), I have two bowlers I measured with an armadillo first and then used the overlay and the measurement with the overlay was closer to that of the armadillo with the ball a few feet past the release (it was still off by 3°-5° from the armadillo measurement). The PAP mark for these two bowlers was slightly off (maybe 1/8"), which I didn't notice until playing the video back in slow motion.
If anyone else with an armadillo and video camera is willing to test this out to see if we can find the "sweet spot" for the overlay, I would appreciate it! Or feel free to send me your video clip and your armadillo measurements and I will see where the ball needs to be for the overlay to give a similar reading.
Secondly, I've noticed that if the PAP marking is off slightly that letting the ball settle on the lane for a few extra feet after the release seems to give a better axis tilt reading. I'm not sure exactly why this is (love physics but not so good at it), I have two bowlers I measured with an armadillo first and then used the overlay and the measurement with the overlay was closer to that of the armadillo with the ball a few feet past the release (it was still off by 3°-5° from the armadillo measurement). The PAP mark for these two bowlers was slightly off (maybe 1/8"), which I didn't notice until playing the video back in slow motion.
If anyone else with an armadillo and video camera is willing to test this out to see if we can find the "sweet spot" for the overlay, I would appreciate it! Or feel free to send me your video clip and your armadillo measurements and I will see where the ball needs to be for the overlay to give a similar reading.
- Mo Pinel
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Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Matt,MattInTheHat wrote:Ive done a couple more bowlers using the transparent overlay and have noticed a couple of things. First is that being lined up just right both with the video camera and with the tape on the PAP is critical. Even just a little off (and I mean little...fractions of an inch) and the overlay could be off by 5° or more. I've confirmed this with armadillo measurements of tilt done at the time of shooting the video.
Secondly, I've noticed that if the PAP marking is off slightly that letting the ball settle on the lane for a few extra feet after the release seems to give a better axis tilt reading. I'm not sure exactly why this is (love physics but not so good at it), I have two bowlers I measured with an armadillo first and then used the overlay and the measurement with the overlay was closer to that of the armadillo with the ball a few feet past the release (it was still off by 3°-5° from the armadillo measurement). The PAP mark for these two bowlers was slightly off (maybe 1/8"), which I didn't notice until playing the video back in slow motion.
If anyone else with an armadillo and video camera is willing to test this out to see if we can find the "sweet spot" for the overlay, I would appreciate it! Or feel free to send me your video clip and your armadillo measurements and I will see where the ball needs to be for the overlay to give a similar reading.
This is great stuff! Maybe it needs a little tweaking. You should see how ugly some great engineering projects look in early stages of development. In reviewing what you've written, I have a couple of suggestions. First, wh want to use the first frame after the bowler's fingers clear the ball. Second, we need to make sure that the camera is placed behind the bowler in line with the trajectory of the ball, NOT parallel to the gutters. This will help to avoid the parallax created by having the camera off the trajectory line. Also, + 3* is an acceptable margin for error. Tilt can be backed up with the armadillo measurement. It's the rotation and the rev rate (done by frame count) that is the most critical info gleaned from this. GREAT WORK!!! I APPRECIATE IT IMMENSELY.
Rest In Peace (1942-2021)
- MattInTheHat
- Member
- Posts: 420
- Joined: January 21st, 2010, 3:33 pm
- THS Average: 201
- Positive Axis Point: 4 9/16 -> 15/16 ^
- Speed: 17-17.5 off hand
- Rev Rate: 270
- Axis Tilt: 17
- Axis Rotation: 75
- Heavy Oil Ball: TR2
- Medium Oil Ball: QZ1 / TX1
- Light Oil Ball: RX1
- Preferred Company: Motiv
- Location: TX
Re: Optimum Capture Position for shooting video for Axis Tilt
Hi Mo,
I had thought that right off the fingers was the right place to measure from, and it lined up well on a few but not so well on a few others. On the latter it was probably due to the PAP being slightly mis-marked, but just in playing around with the videos I noticed that after a few feet the tape settled into a tighter spin and at that point the tilt measurement with the overlay was closer to that of the armadillo, whereas it was further off measuring right at the release. I guess the important fact to gleam from this is that an accurate PAP marking is critical, followed by an accurate camera position. Which leads me to...
I actually was wondering about the camera alignment, one of the bowlers I shot has a 450 rev rate and swings the ball the whole lane, and I was wondering if I should be lined up off to the left, pointing along his ball path. I had thought I might need to be even further left, in this persons case on the next lane, but thought that would throw things off. Sounds like I was right...so I should be lined up directly behind the bowler, but then turn the camera slightly to point in the direction of their ball path, right?
I'm not much of a scientist but have always liked doing research, to try to understand and make things as good as they can be. I really want this overlay to work accurately and be as easy to use as possible, so any ideas are welcome and when I have time I will test things out and post the results.
I also have a somewhat crazy idea in mind if we can get this overlay figured out and working well...but don't hold your breath, I'm not sure it is even be possible.
I had thought that right off the fingers was the right place to measure from, and it lined up well on a few but not so well on a few others. On the latter it was probably due to the PAP being slightly mis-marked, but just in playing around with the videos I noticed that after a few feet the tape settled into a tighter spin and at that point the tilt measurement with the overlay was closer to that of the armadillo, whereas it was further off measuring right at the release. I guess the important fact to gleam from this is that an accurate PAP marking is critical, followed by an accurate camera position. Which leads me to...
I actually was wondering about the camera alignment, one of the bowlers I shot has a 450 rev rate and swings the ball the whole lane, and I was wondering if I should be lined up off to the left, pointing along his ball path. I had thought I might need to be even further left, in this persons case on the next lane, but thought that would throw things off. Sounds like I was right...so I should be lined up directly behind the bowler, but then turn the camera slightly to point in the direction of their ball path, right?
I'm not much of a scientist but have always liked doing research, to try to understand and make things as good as they can be. I really want this overlay to work accurately and be as easy to use as possible, so any ideas are welcome and when I have time I will test things out and post the results.
I also have a somewhat crazy idea in mind if we can get this overlay figured out and working well...but don't hold your breath, I'm not sure it is even be possible.