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 Post subject: pin to pap? what to use
 Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:30 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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I've had success using pin distances of 5" or more. Using an Onslaught drilled 70 5 1/2 70 no BH rolled 300's in 3 different houses wood and synthetic. Using colossus pearl 50 5 1/2 20 no BH and most recently having success with Solid levrg 30 6" 45 no BH. Just recently drilled Ntense Levrg 55 3 3/4 25 BH in P1(wanted to put in P3 but static weight would not allow even with fingers drilled deep) location. Have a hard time using it on my league shots. I did shoot 700 with it one night but I was lofting the sh** out of it. I just recently came to York PA for Mo's seminar. The lanes there were much different than what I bowl on in my leagues. As I was testing the mania and craze I was playing the same area on the lanes I would normally play in league. And the balls reacted nice. It wasn't until I pulled out some of my equipment did I realize there were more units of oil on lanes than I was accustomed too. The onslaught barely wrinkled. The only ball I owned at the time that gave me a good look was the ntense levrg. What I was wondering is why I have had success with longer pin distances? Should I continue using longer pin to pap layouts? I'm LH with 4 1/2 3/8 up pap speed is about 18mph of hand (can vary it) , axis tilt is low about 10-11 degrees, rev rate is about 280 (can vary it)

Balls in bag
ntense levrg 55 3 3/4 25 bh p1
solid levrg 30 6 45
awesome finish 65 4 1/2 70
ez levrg 47 4 1/4 30 bh p3
colossus pearl 50 5 1/2 20
onslaught 70 5 1//2 70

retired balls
awesome flip 35 3 3/8 30 bh p3
awesome flip 30 5 50 bh p1
ravage 50 3 3/8 30 bh p1 (great ball)
seek and destroy 60 3 70 bh p1
total annihilation 3" pin to pap, 6" psa to pap, 1 1/4" pin above ml (mo layed out for me and i scored well on the sport conditions I was bowling in at the time)


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 Post subject: Re: pin to pap? what to use
 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:07 am Post Number: #2 Post
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mosome300 wrote:
I've had success using pin distances of 5" or more. Using an Onslaught drilled 70 5 1/2 70 no BH rolled 300's in 3 different houses wood and synthetic. Using colossus pearl 50 5 1/2 20 no BH and most recently having success with Solid levrg 30 6" 45 no BH. Just recently drilled Ntense Levrg 55 3 3/4 25 BH in P1(wanted to put in P3 but static weight would not allow even with fingers drilled deep) location. Have a hard time using it on my league shots. I did shoot 700 with it one night but I was lofting the sh** out of it. I just recently came to York PA for Mo's seminar. The lanes there were much different than what I bowl on in my leagues. As I was testing the mania and craze I was playing the same area on the lanes I would normally play in league. And the balls reacted nice. It wasn't until I pulled out some of my equipment did I realize there were more units of oil on lanes than I was accustomed too. The onslaught barely wrinkled. The only ball I owned at the time that gave me a good look was the ntense levrg. What I was wondering is why I have had success with longer pin distances? Should I continue using longer pin to pap layouts? I'm LH with 4 1/2 3/8 up pap speed is about 18mph of hand (can vary it) , axis tilt is low about 10-11 degrees, rev rate is about 280 (can vary it)

Balls in bag
ntense levrg 55 3 3/4 25 bh p1
solid levrg 30 6 45
awesome finish 65 4 1/2 70
ez levrg 47 4 1/4 30 bh p3
colossus pearl 50 5 1/2 20
onslaught 70 5 1//2 70

retired balls
awesome flip 35 3 3/8 30 bh p3
awesome flip 30 5 50 bh p1
ravage 50 3 3/8 30 bh p1 (great ball)
seek and destroy 60 3 70 bh p1
total annihilation 3" pin to pap, 6" psa to pap, 1 1/4" pin above ml (mo layed out for me and i scored well on the sport conditions I was bowling in at the time)


Those pin distances (> 5") are probably working because of wet/dry or very hooking house conditions on which you are bowling. I do not know where you are bowling. If your tilt measurements are accurate, I usually recommend pin to PAP distances between 2 1/2" and 4 1/2" for 10-11* of tilt.. That being said, your layout patterns are obviously working on the conditions that you bowl on.


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 Post subject: Re: pin to pap? what to use
 Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:20 am Post Number: #3 Post
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do you remember what kind of angles were on the test balls? Were the textures changed or were they out of box? You are a lefty, were the test balls drilled for a righty? or is it that Mo's new balls just hook that much more than the Intense? what kind of pins were in the test balls?


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 Post subject: Re: pin to pap? what to use
 Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:43 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Sorry it took so long for reply, I had the flu. The balls being tested were double thumb drilled for lefty. The oil pattern was house, but with more units of oil than my league conditions. My equipment would not read anything inside of seven board if that. The balls being tested the craze and mania both gave me a look inside of ten. The mania I could almost get as deep as twenty with. Big difference, I was so glad I brought some of my equipment to compare it to. Otherwise I might not have thought these balls were anything special. As regards to pin to pap distance, Mo I read a great post you put in Mo and friends and have a much greater understanding. Basically the longer pin distances give more contol in the backends. This is probably why I sometimes realy struggle with a look even when other lefty's are killing the shot at some tournaments. The bowling centers I currently bowl at are Mt. Morris Lanes and Livingston Lanes in geneseo NY.


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 Post subject: Re: pin to pap? what to use
 Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:04 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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elgavachon wrote:
do you remember what kind of angles were on the test balls? Were the textures changed or were they out of box? You are a lefty, were the test balls drilled for a righty? or is it that Mo's new balls just hook that much more than the Intense? what kind of pins were in the test balls?


Since we don't have PAPs when we set up demo balls, we use a generic layout for a vast majority of PAPs. We use factory box finishes on the balls: FRENZY is 4000; Craze is 2000; mania is 1000.

Here's how the balls are layed out. Pin and PSA are 1 1/2" right (for right handers) of the centerline of the grip. Pin is 3 1/2" above the midline. Balance hole is 4" over and 2 1/2" down (results in a P3.5 hole position). Balance hole is 1" diameter, 3" deep. If you mark these spots on an existing ball of yours, you can measure the "Dual Angle" layout for you. It averages about 75% of the reaction strength possible from that ball.


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