Lesson Learned ??

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Glenn
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Lesson Learned ??

Post by Glenn »

I apologize up front for this long-winded post.

Although I hashed this over with T-Hawk previously, I thought I would post it to the public.
It is a classic example of me doing the same thing over-and-over, and expecting different results.
And, me not paying attention to what the lanes were telling me and assuming I knew the lane conditions.

Before Covid curtailed my bowling for a while, I bowled at two different centers: 1) one with synthetic lanes, and 2) the other with hybrid syn and wood. Both houses run their version of the “house pattern”.
I learned that the #2 house oil pattern was 40-ft, 23.4 mL total oil, 12:1 ratio, and buff length of 3-ft. It is used for everything including tournaments.
I basically had two arsenals with different layouts (most of my layouts are 4-4.25 P2P with a couple at 4.5 P2P) and surfaces (duller for syn lanes and wood, and shinier for hybrid lanes) to accommodate these THC differences. I was doing OK.

Covid lock-downs happened, I sat out bowling for one full season plus, and resumed bowling with this fall season.
Things had changed:

• I had two of my bowling balls crack beyond repair (one was a favorite).
• All of my leagues are now bowled at center #2 because center #1 wouldn’t accommodate.
• Center #2 had added the tracer markings down-lane, and upgraded the furniture (ugh).
• Masking is generally ignored by the center staff and league bowlers.

Since my return to bowling, I have struggled. My scoring is all over the place.
Most of my equipment now hits high and hooks – a lot, or makes no move whatsoever. I figured I was just a little rusty.
Moving left and throwing it right, softening my hand, more speed, or lofting didn’t help.
Changing balls (ball down) and shiny surfaces didn’t help, just added to my inconsistency.
Even my polished equipment hit high and hooked (including my spare ball polished like a marble). Frustrating.

I noticed that I wasn’t the only one having problems.
One guy would loft a strong ball to the arrows in an attempt to be more successful (lefty).
Most were having good game / bad game / good game, or some combination thereof.
I would see 1st game scores of 210+, 2nd game scores in the 150s, and 3rd game scores in the 175s.
A few seemed to be successful and holding a 190-205 average.
With so many different skills and equipment, it was hard to know what was successful.

Using the tracers as a point of reference, I noticed balls were rolling/hooking at the closest tracer.
This is when I hunted down the lane oil man to try and get a read on the oil pattern in use.
Once we got beyond the “it’s just a house pattern” posturing, I learned the oil pattern had changed, too.
Center #2 uses an older machine for our daytime leagues that they kept after buying a new battery-operated model.
No idea of how regularly it is maintained, or when the brushes were last changed.
The pattern is now 42-ft, 20.65 mL of total oil, and a buff length 5-ft. – surprise!

Armed with this information, my favorite stuff will probably stay at home, and I will be looking in my bag for weaker pearls with polished surfaces and layouts with a P2P of 4-1/2 to 4-5/8 (maybe even re-drill one or two).
How did I miss this for so long ?? LOL !!
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EricHartwell
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by EricHartwell »

Comments in color ...[

quote=Glenn post_id=116833 time=1642364461 user_id=5287]
I apologize up front for this long-winded post.

Although I hashed this over with T-Hawk previously, I thought I would post it to the public.
It is a classic example of me doing the same thing over-and-over, and expecting different results.
And, me not paying attention to what the lanes were telling me and assuming I knew the lane conditions.

Before Covid curtailed my bowling for a while, I bowled at two different centers: 1) one with synthetic lanes, and 2) the other with hybrid syn and wood. Both houses run their version of the “house pattern”.
I learned that the #2 house oil pattern was 40-ft, 23.4 mL total oil, 12:1 ratio, and buff length of 3-ft. It is used for everything including tournaments.
I basically had two arsenals with different layouts (most of my layouts are 4-4.25 P2P with a couple at 4.5 P2P) and surfaces (duller for syn lanes and wood, and shinier for hybrid lanes) to accommodate these THC differences. I was doing OK.

Covid lock-downs happened, I sat out bowling for one full season plus, and resumed bowling with this fall season.
Things had changed:

• I had two of my bowling balls crack beyond repair (one was a favorite).
in my humble opinion... Don't store balls long term without oil in them. They are like dry sponges, brittle. And reactive balls seem to keep curing, shrinking as time goes on. Keep oil in them for best longevity.
• All of my leagues are now bowled at center #2 because center #1 wouldn’t accommodate.
• Center #2 had added the tracer markings down-lane, and upgraded the furniture (ugh).
• Masking is generally ignored by the center staff and league bowlers.
I see the same thing here too except the older peoples seem to adhere to the masking
Since my return to bowling, I have struggled. My scoring is all over the place.
Taking breaks from anything has adverse effects.
Most of my equipment now hits high and hooks – a lot, or makes no move whatsoever. I figured I was just a little rusty.
Moving left and throwing it right, softening my hand, more speed, or lofting didn’t help.
I kind of ran into the same thing. I just couldn't seem to keep my speed up after taking the "Covid" break. Maybe all the alleys are skimping on oil to try to make up for there losses. The last couple of weeks I'm scoring better, same pattern but I am getting back the speed. Slowly but surely.
Changing balls (ball down) and shiny surfaces didn’t help, just added to my inconsistency.
Even my polished equipment hit high and hooked (including my spare ball polished like a marble). Frustrating.
What Pin to PAP are you using?
I'm guessing it is too long. On Asyms shorter Pin to PAP will give longer more controllable hook.

I noticed that I wasn’t the only one having problems.
One guy would loft a strong ball to the arrows in an attempt to be more successful (lefty).
Most were having good game / bad game / good game, or some combination thereof.
I would see 1st game scores of 210+, 2nd game scores in the 150s, and 3rd game scores in the 175s.
A few seemed to be successful and holding a 190-205 average.
With so many different skills and equipment, it was hard to know what was successful.
Gone are the days of needing the Strongest ball/layout you can get.
I'm using polished Urethane. Granted it is a high differential drilling, lots of flare.


Using the tracers as a point of reference, I noticed balls were rolling/hooking at the closest tracer.
This is when I hunted down the lane oil man to try and get a read on the oil pattern in use.
Once we got beyond the “it’s just a house pattern” posturing, I learned the oil pattern had changed, too.
Center #2 uses an older machine for our daytime leagues that they kept after buying a new battery-operated model.
No idea of how regularly it is maintained, or when the brushes were last changed.
The pattern is now 42-ft, 20.65 mL of total oil, and a buff length 5-ft. – surprise!
12:1 Ratio, What board is the cliff at. Adult bumper bowling. Lots of available friction

Armed with this information, my favorite stuff will probably stay at home, and I will be looking in my bag for weaker pearls with polished surfaces and layouts with a P2P of 4-1/2 to 4-5/8 (maybe even re-drill one or two).
What are your release specs these days?
It has been a while since we talked about layouts.

What balls do you want to drill?


How did I miss this for so long ?? LOL !!
[/quote]
Last edited by EricHartwell on January 17th, 2022, 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Glenn
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Posts: 293
Joined: May 11th, 2015, 11:00 pm

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by Glenn »

Eric,

Tell me more about the oil thing.

And, the senior bowlers here are just as stupid about not masking. Last week, in two leagues of about 40 players each, only two or three wore a mask.

Glenn
Bowling Is More Art Than Science
"Glenn is not an expert..."
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by EricHartwell »

The oil thing?
12:1 ratio _____~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_____ No blending. Wet/Dry, over/under.
I would recommend slower reacting layouts especially if you are getting it out in the friction.

Do you have a specific question?
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Glenn
Member
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: May 11th, 2015, 11:00 pm

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by Glenn »

Eric,

LOL ! A classic example of how mis-communication occurs.

I want to know your recipe for applying oil (what type, how much) to a bowling ball when you plan to store it.
Do you rejuvenate it when pressing it back into service?

Also, I have generally used a 4-inch Pin-to-PAP. I gave up on short pins - I just couldn't make them work for me.

Glenn
Bowling Is More Art Than Science
"Glenn is not an expert..."
User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 4080
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
Location: Michigan

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by EricHartwell »

How short Pin to PAPs?

What balls have you had short pins on ? Symmetrical? Asymmetrical?

Again what specs are you working with?

When the Blue and Black Hammers originally came out you had to add some oil to the surface, they were so dull.
The first throw out of the box was an immediate left turn.

I don't have any formula or scientific data, just observation.

I just don't de-oil them until they actually need it. While also planning on using after cleaning it to replenish some of it.
If I were to put a ball up and not use it I will not de-oil until I was ready to put it back in service.

I've lost 3 balls to cracking. Each one was stored "clean".
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Glenn
Member
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: May 11th, 2015, 11:00 pm

Re: Lesson Learned ??

Post by Glenn »

Eric,

I hadn't lost any balls to cracking until last year.

I misunderstood.
I thought you were applying a coat of oil before you stored them.
These conditions here are so dry that you get few oil rings unless you are very deep or throwing up the middle.
Even after many games, I get very little oil out of them when I rejuvenate.
I had a 2-inch Pin on an ASYM, and tried a 3-inch Pin on a SYM. They are both gone - didn't like them.
My ASYM benchmarks are usually 4 x 4 x 2, and my SYM benchmarks are 60 x 4 x 35 - pretty strong.
A couple of my ball down pearls are 70 x 4.5 x 40.

I won't be able to respond further for a couple of days.

Glenn
Bowling Is More Art Than Science
"Glenn is not an expert..."
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