General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

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Glenn
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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 7:46 pm

Dr. Rancourt's paper was entitled "Masks Don't Work A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy", and was published by Research Gate at researchgate.net.
Professor Rancourt (PhD in physics) is an outspoken libertarian who is a mask denier. He is also a prominent climate change denier. It appears that the professor’s political ideology, rather than an objective examination of available evidence, is driving his agenda. That is decidedly not the way scientific inquiry is supposed to work.

I will rely on Dr. Anthony Fauci when he states in very clear terms that wearing masks helps to prevent further spread of the corona-virus. Dr. Fauci is a world-renowned epidemiologist, and very much respected in Europe (apparently more so than in the US - sad).

Masks work. Masks have helped Hong Kong suppress this plague. Hong Kong is essentially Asia’s version of New York City — a global hub that is similar in population, density and reliance on mass transit. Yet while New York has buried tens of thousands of its residents, Hong Kong has recorded only seven COVID-19 deaths out of about 1,200 total cases. Masks are a key reason why. Facial coverings helped limit both the contagion and economic damage in Hong Kong. Residents here have never received blanket stay-at-home orders; most shops and restaurants have remained open. In May, children returned to classrooms for the first time since January — providing that they wear masks, as do their teachers. And yet, America doesn’t get it.

Wearing a surgical mask may be able to reduce the transmission of the novel corona-virus by as much as 75 percent, according to a new study by the University of Hong Kong. Although apparently not peer-reviewed yet , the paper was released Sunday and is expected to be published in the Clinical Infectious Diseases medical journal. The research was led by Dr. Yuen Kwok-yung, a leading microbiologist from the university who helped discover the SARS virus in 2003.

Oh, and by the way, the Cherokee County School District in north Georgia has directed 826 students and 42 teachers to quarantine as a result of exposure to COVID-19 after being back to school for only six days. The district reopened without a mask mandate for students and it is unclear if the recent potential spread of the virus may lead the district to implement one. Staff have been required to wear one on school grounds.
Last edited by Glenn on August 11th, 2020, 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 7:47 pm

I have laid out the scientific framework that is over a hundred years old that is needed to prove a pandemic.
There are a myriad of scientific protocols involving pandemics and COVID-19. Is this one of the main protocols to study COVID-19 listed in IJMSAT? Please cite your specific reference. Thanks.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 8:09 pm

Initially, "wellness" states there is little confirmed proof that washing hands has an effect on the transmission of a disease.
Tell your surgeon to forego scrubbing up before surgery ....
Current evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus is transmitted through respiratory droplets or contact. Contact transmission occurs when contaminated hands touch the mucosa of the mouth, nose, or eyes (we touch our faces more than 20 times per hour). The virus can also be transferred from one surface to another by contaminated hands, which facilitates indirect contact transmission. Consequently, hand hygiene is extremely important to prevent the spread of the COVID-19 virus. It also interrupts transmission of other viruses and bacteria causing common colds, flu, and pneumonia, thus reducing the general burden of disease.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by boomer » August 11th, 2020, 9:17 pm

It's funny - we have one side providing one side, and Ph.D.'s providing their very educated opinions, and the other side saying that because they have an opinion that differs from the "consensus" that they are, by nature, invalid.

Be wary of consensus, my friends. Even gravity does not have a consensus (you realize that gravity is an artificial force, not an actual force. The "law of gravity" is actually a function of mass and spacetime interacting, and physicists cannot agree on why it works or how it works - a universality without a consensus. . .) - any time you see science in a consensus, ask yourself, where is the argument?

Science does not progress without argument. Consensus is where we were when we were letting blood. Consensus is where we were with the Copernican model. Consensus is where we were with Newton's law of gravity (which Edison kinda blew out of the water.)

Science said that Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine are ineffective - but there are arguments in favor of it even though FB and YT will delete them. Argument is good.
Science said that a vaccine for a coronavirus or a rhinovirus was impossible (we'd been trying for decades, unsuccessfully) and yet there are at least four past stage-3 trials.

Fauci is not infallible. He doesn't practice what he preaches, himself, as we've seen.

Controversy is GOOD when it comes to science. Controversy is how we progress.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 9:35 pm

How does the bowling industry move forward, safely.....
I am not convinced it can ... until this virus is contained or a vaccine is readily available.
Several states have issued guidelines specific to bowling centers that seem to identify the issues and how they need to be addressed:
stay at least six feet apart, wear a mask, wipe down frequently touched surfaces, meet in a building with sufficient filters in its ventilation system, use a portable air purifier and a humidifier, clean those filthy public restrooms, and stay clear of crowded rooms/areas.
I recently saw an article listing the 7 Places You Should NOT Visit; bowling alleys was one of them.
I believe the biggest threat to success is the mask and social-distancing deniers.
Winter is rapidly approaching the northern states, everything moves indoors, and bowling leagues start. Bowling is a congregating sport/activity.
Indoors for the winter brings the heightened risk of spreading the corona-virus (enclosed spaces). Outdoors, there is enough air for the virus to be “rapidly diluted,” as well as the helpful “virus-killing action of sunlight" (after 10 or so minutes). Many bowling centers in my area are what is called "sick buildings". They are older structures with few (none) windows, and "closed" HVAC systems (no fresh air being circulated), and haven't been well-cleaned since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Indoors, the virus can build up (duct work and air filters that are seldom changed?) and be more easily inhaled (aerosols). And with the heat turned on, it can lead to dry air which is more hospitable to the virus. And, we get to add in the cold and flu season - what could possibly go wrong?

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 9:48 pm

and Ph.D.'s providing their very educated opinions
Expertise in one area of science often doesn’t translate to expertise in even closely related areas.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by Glenn » August 11th, 2020, 10:02 pm

Fauci is not infallible. He doesn't practice what he preaches, himself, as we've seen.
As the virus continues to spread everywhere, experts are having to update their understanding and approach in real time, and in full public view.
This criticism of Fauci and others is an unhelpful and inaccurate way of looking at the situation. When knowledge is evolving, we shouldn’t view it as scientists “getting things wrong.” We should view it as scientists in the process of getting things right. In this stage of the pandemic, our knowledge is incomplete, but growing. The scientific method is used for a simple reason: It offers the best path to accurate and trustworthy results. We make observations, come up with a hypothesis to explain them and test that hypothesis by making more observations. If there is a disconnect between the hypothesis and the observations, we reject the hypothesis, not the observations. We do this because the observations are facts. And scientists have to be willing to go wherever the facts lead, not double-down on their position like conspiracy theorists do.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by boomer » August 12th, 2020, 2:48 pm

Glenn wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 9:48 pm
Expertise in one area of science often doesn’t translate to expertise in even closely related areas.
Thank you.

In fact, as one who works in academia, I've noticed that the farther along one moves along the educational chain, the more that is true. A Bachelor's degree with a major in an area means you have FOCUSED on that area but are supposed to have a fairly rounded body of knowledge (the GEs). A Master's degree indicates you have mastered the area in which you have your degree. A Ph.D. really only indicates you have contributed original research (the Dissertation) to the area in which you received your degree. So, outside of your very narrow focus, your knowledge typically is very limited.

Further reasons why "scientific consensus" in any area is a problematic phrase.

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Re: USBC Nationals for 2020 Cancelled - good or bad thing?

Post by MegaMav » August 12th, 2020, 5:47 pm

I feel like this topic should be split.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by MegaMav » August 12th, 2020, 5:54 pm

Topic has been split.
Please continue in a respectful, fact based manner.
Also, please site your sources with links or attachments.

Thanks.
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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Daryl » August 12th, 2020, 8:10 pm

Interesting responses my bowling friends. Let me take these one at a time:

This may also help out with TomaHawk’s comment, but Glenn you mentioned that there was a sharp increase in all cause mortality for two months. The all cause mortality data I have seen does show that there was a sharp peak right after the pandemic was announced by the WHO. This can be confirmed in some of Denis Rancourt’s interviews where he shows various graphs illustrating the weekly deaths through many years. But this spike only lasted about three maybe four weeks in the jurisdictions it occurred and only where they did certain things. This peak does not occur in jurisdictions like California, Texas and the other five states that did not do lock downs and other extreme measures like New York during this same time period. And in the jurisdictions that this anomaly happened, it happened at the exact same time all over the world. Right after the WHO announcement of a pandemic and that certain drastic steps needed to be taken immediately. New York was a leader in the steps as well as deaths. A virus all of a sudden hits the world at the exact same time after the announcement? The other interesting observation is that it occurred very late in the flu season, which has never been seen before in past statistics even during so called past pandemics. But the overall deaths through this year so far statistically are no different than previous years. But you do have this anomaly for about 3 to 4 weeks than the death rates dropped significantly to lower than average levels and than leveled up to normal rates statistically speaking. So for the year no the death rate is statistically no different than previous years.

So the question is did the sharp increase over this very short span of time occur because of some unknown virus or was it because of the measures taken to allegedly stop it’s supposed spread?

This is Dr. Rancourt’s analysis, and let me remind people the he does believe there is a virus that has killed people, but it is no more deadly than any flu virus. Anyway his analysis is that the momentarily increase in deaths of immune vulnerable people, namely the elderly, [that was by far the majority of deaths labeled covid-19] was the result of the steps taken to [allegedly] reduce the spread of an [alleged] virus. What were those steps? They were isolated from their families. Hospitals moved their infected elderly to institutions. The elderly were locked down into institutions. The institutions were shut down tight so no fresh air could circulate well, so if there was a virus it would remain in the institution and continue to concentrate. These people were not care for as well since the institutions were over whelmed and hospitals were instructed to only prepare for covid patients only. No visits to their doctors. Elective surgeries were all canceled. No family members were allowed to visit. Elderly were stressed from worry about this pandemic announcement. So all of these stressors on the elderly is known scientifically to be a major cause of faulty immune responses and causing other diseases as well. Just think if you were elderly, locked up alone and unable to have visits from your family for comfort and worrying about what was going on. If you felt sick you could not go to your doctor and get checked. How would you feel? Now Dr. Rancourt’s conclusion is that this accelerated elderly deaths who would have died weeks or months later anyway. This is a reasonable conclusion because the over all death rate for the year is no different than previous years statistically. If this spike in death was an additional cause of death the over all death rate for the year would also be way up, but it is not. People cherish the value of observation well these are the observed facts correlated to the hard data. And even if one wants to believe this virus exists, according to the CDC the over all infection fatality rate is only 0.26%! That is right on power with the common cold, which is what a corona virus is. One can confirm in a medical encyclopedia.
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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Daryl » August 12th, 2020, 8:16 pm

Now to masks Glenn. I do not know anything about Dr. Rancourt’s political ideologies. I just look at the science. If you think that you can stop a mosquito with a chain linked fence than wear a mask. Because that is the same physical effect a mask has on stopping aerosolized particles in the nanometer range like this alleged virus. And all Randomized Control Trial studies with verifiable outcome assessments (RCT) say the same thing. Masks do not reduce the risk of infection either to the wearer or the community. This is established fact. It is not in dispute scientifically. All RCT studies since the 1940's are in agreement. Here are a few studies from trusted sources:

CDC:
The CDC reviewed 10 of these studies in May 2020 in their journal entitled Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures, Jingyi Xiao1, Eunice Y. C. Shiu1, Huizhi Gao, Jessica Y. Wong, Min W. Fong, Sukhyun Ryu, and Benjamin J. Cowling (Emerging Infectious Diseases Volume 26, Number 5, May of 2020. Here are quotes from pages 970-972 of the review: “In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs [randomized controlled trials] that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks…”

“Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids… There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.” https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/pdfs/19-0994.pdf

That is the CDC, the same people who are telling people to wear masks?

Here is one from pubmed:

“Masks can spread all virus, but coronavirus specifically. Exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and may concentrate in the nasal passages. “
Perlman S et al. Spread of a neurotropic murine coronavirus into the CNS via the trigeminal and olfactory nerves. Virology 1989;170:556-560. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2543129/

From the World Health Organization (WHO):
World Health Organization states there “is no evidence wearing a mask by a healthy person in a community setting can prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19” and further concludes “universal community masking” is ineffective at preventing “infection from respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.” The WHO recommended against wearing medical masks as they “may create a false sense of security” against COVID-19, while it further went out of its way to reiterate that there is “no evidence available on a [mask’s] usefulness to protect non-sick persons.” Reference: Advice on the Use of Masks in the Context of COVID-19 – Interim Guidance, World Health Organization (April 6, 2020) [June update says the same thing]

The British Medical Journal notes that cloth face masks may INCREASE spread of virus: “This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.” https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577 A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers ; published in 2015.

I have at least 15 more RCT studies on my computer that even go into the harmful effects of wearing masks all day, but my point is made. People can argue all they want, but until an RCT study comes out and proves all of the RCT studies on masks in the past are wrong the established science says masks do not reduce the risk of infection from a virus. It will be interesting to see if Dr. Yuen’s study was a RCT and if it is rejected after peer review study. Happens all the time. Scientifically his findings you speak of do not make sense considering no study has confirmed the existence of the novel corona virus. I am assuming you are talking about the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Dr. Mercola just published a good article on the subject of masks at the end of July. Said the same thing. Mask do not work. So if you want to wear one go ahead. I know I do not need to.
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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Daryl » August 12th, 2020, 8:21 pm

My deepest apologies Glenn if my statement about the scientific framework to prove the existence of a virus was to vague. My bad. I assumed every one has read my posts from the beginning. I was referring to Koch’s Postulates. You can search for the details, but this is the gold standard used for the last hundred years or so to determine if a virus exists and causes an infectious disease. Dr. Koch published these steps in 1890. It has not been done for the SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19.

And finally I agree “expertise in one area of science often doesn’t translate to expertise in even closely related areas”. How true that can be. But by the same token it does not mean that an expert in one field of study cannot prove or disprove experts in another field of study even if the are far apart. Additionally, just because someone is called an expert in a field of study does not make him or her an expert in that field of study. As they say follow the money. Thus when there are two side to an issue of concern what can one do to find the truth. Search and follow that rabbit hole and see which side is the truth. Peace my bowling brothers and sisters
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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by kajmk » August 12th, 2020, 8:26 pm

MegaMav wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 5:54 pm
Topic has been split.
Please continue in a respectful, fact based manner.
Also, please site your sources with links or attachments.

Thanks.

Kudos to all for keeping things that way.

This from Johns Hopkins, a set of short videos.
There are no doubt other resources, this is one.

As I have no medical expertise, I have nothing constructive to add, only opinions based on a layman's perspective.

Upon completing this course, you will be able to:

Describe characteristics of the COVID-19 disease, including how it is diagnosed and treated
Understand the development of the COVID-19 pandemic, and emerging trends throughout the world
Discuss societal challenges raised by COVID-19 and opportunities to address them

UNDERSTANDING THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC
Insights from Johns Hopkins University Experts
Johns Hopkins University is hosting a free, publicly available course titled Understanding the COVID-19 Pandemic: Insights from Johns Hopkins University Experts. This course is set up as a series of short modules to explore the COVID-19 pandemic. Registration is not required. The modules build on each other. The course begins with a discussion of the virus that causes COVID-19 and works its way to the pandemic’s broader implications for society. This course features original content that was created after the imposition of social distancing measures.


https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/covid-19-ba ... g-covid-19


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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Glenn » August 12th, 2020, 8:55 pm

I assumed every one has read my posts from the beginning. I was referring to Koch’s Postulates. You can search for the details, but this is the gold standard used for the last hundred years or so to determine if a virus exists and causes an infectious disease. Dr. Koch published these steps in 1890. It has not been done for the SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19.
The postulates were formulated by Robert Koch and Friedrich Loeffler in 1884. These postulates were generated prior to understanding of modern concepts in microbial parthenogenesis that cannot be examined using Koch’s postulates, including viruses (which are obligate cellular parasites) and asymptomatic carriers. They have largely been supplanted by other criteria such as the Bradford Hill criteria for infectious disease causality in modern public health. Probably why "it has not been done for the SARS-Cov2/COVID-19"....

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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Glenn » August 12th, 2020, 9:40 pm

...Masks do not reduce the risk of infection either to the wearer or the community.
And yet ... as I read it, these articles were originally focused on decision makers in the health care environment over medical/surgical masks. More current information concerns itself with mask wearing in the general population. It is clear that mask wearing must occur in concert with social distancing measures and hygiene practices.

In June 2020, The World Health Organization (WHO) changed course on its recommendations for the use of masks amid the coronavirus pandemic, advising that in areas where the virus is spreading, people should wear fabric masks in public when they are unable to practice social distancing. The new guidance recommends the general public wear non-medical cloth masks in places such as public transport, in shops or in confined crowded environments. It also says those over 60 or with underlying conditions should wear medical masks in areas where there’s community transmission of the coronavirus and physical distancing is impossible. WHO infection control expert April Baller said the reason for widening the guidance on face masks was the increasing evidence COVID-19 can be spread by people before they have symptoms.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued guidance in April recommending people wear homemade masks or face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain. It was a reversal for the agency that said at the beginning of the outbreak healthy people did not need to wear masks because it would not protect them from contracting the disease.

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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Glenn » August 13th, 2020, 12:43 pm

John (kajmk),

The John Hopkins site is a great informational source. I also like the Atlantic's COVID-19 information.

I got kind of a reality check in one of the Atlantic articles. Political scientist Joseph E. Uscinski, a professor at the University of Miami and a co-author of American Conspiracy Theories, made a statement and causes me to rethink how I want to waste my time (LOL). He said that some people are sharing links to videos like Plandemic because they are curious and uncertain about the claims being made. However, others are doing so because they’re already deeply convinced. You probably can’t do much to sway a “true believer,” to use Uscinski’s term. You’ll have a better chance of getting through to the curious and the uncertain. Or, in my mind, do not waste your time ... here.

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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by kajmk » August 13th, 2020, 5:40 pm

Glenn wrote:
August 13th, 2020, 12:43 pm
John (kajmk),

The John Hopkins site is a great informational source. I also like the Atlantic's COVID-19 information.

I got kind of a reality check in one of the Atlantic articles. Political scientist Joseph E. Uscinski, a professor at the University of Miami and a co-author of American Conspiracy Theories, made a statement and causes me to rethink how I want to waste my time (LOL). He said that some people are sharing links to videos like Plandemic because they are curious and uncertain about the claims being made. However, others are doing so because they’re already deeply convinced. You probably can’t do much to sway a “true believer,” to use Uscinski’s term. You’ll have a better chance of getting through to the curious and the uncertain. Or, in my mind, do not waste your time ... here.
Uscinski's point is well made and for what it's worth, that has been my observation.

I logged I to share this link from Johns Hopkins University. The link was generated by searching JHU for Covid19: This lists various articles and resources on the topic.
I'd encourage the curious to scan the list.

One of the articles might be a good one to start with

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles ... id-19.html

https://www.jhu.edu/search/?c=site_sear ... Covid%2019

One of our societal failings has been how we teach.
Reliance on rote learning is conducive to rote behavior.
We should be encouraging analysis, critical thinking, discussion, debate.

Our current health crisis could be viewed as a shot across the bow from Mother Nature. The next volley might be a broadside (more virulent).

One ancient military gambit is to sew confusion and doubt among the enemy.


Be safe, be well, be happy, be kind.
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Empathize

John

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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by Daryl » August 14th, 2020, 12:28 am

Ah yes Hill’s nine step procedure. Hill’s criteria for causation is debated to this day - here is a reference: Schünemann H, Hill S, Guyatt G; et al. (2011). "The GRADE approach and Bradford Hill's criteria for causation". Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health. 65 (5): 392–95. doi:10.1136/jech.2010.119933. PMID 20947872.

But let’s say it is okay. No flaws. If you like it Glenn why has it not been used to identify SARS-CoV-2? Instead of criticize my preferred testing procedure why did you evade the issue namely there have been no studies done that identify a virus known as SARS-CoV-2 and is running wild in our environment and proved to cause a disease coded as COVID-19? Is that unreasonable? But you cannot find such a study can you.

Koch’s Postulates, which he refined and published in 1890, are still a useful benchmark today in judging whether there is a cause and effect relationship between a microbe or toxin and disease.
Ref.: https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... lekey=7105
https://science.umd.edu/classroom/bsci4 ... ulates.htm
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedicti ... postulates

I like it because it is a simple 4 steps process that anyone can understand. First find the agent in a diseased body. Two, isolate the pathogen and purify it so as to have no contamination of the agent. Three, inject this pure agent into a healthy body and see if it causes the same disease. Four, if a disease occurs in the healthy subject re-isolate the agent from the subject in step three and purify it. If it is the same as in the step one body you have a cause and effect answer. Today we have much better ways of isolating viruses and seeing them so Koch’s steps are a reasonable method to prove or disprove an infectious viral agent. Dr. Rivers criteria is a modified version of Koch’s criteria, but just with extra steps and could be used as well. But both have not been used to prove SARS-CoV-2 exist and causes a disease coded as COVID-19. Just as Hill’s criteria has not been used.

So my bowling brothers and sisters the point here for all to analyze is simple as I posted near the beginning of this discussion. No evidence has been presented that this virus exists and causes a disease or pandemic. Is it not logical to examine the first step in a scientific process? After all the first step is the foundation of the issue. If the foundation is not solid the house falls. No evidence of a virus than all numbers associated with it are meaningless. All steps to allegedly protect against it are meaningless and groundless.

Did the WHO change their course. Not in their scientific section. If you will note in my last comment Glenn that after I quoted sections from their April 2020 Interim Guidance manual I noted that their June edition said the exact same thing. And again you referenced an April news statement of the CDC and I quoted from their May 2020 journal of Emerging Infectious Diseases. So when they release news to the general public it says one thing, but when they cite the science it says the opposite. Why are you missing these details?

That is why these organization have no credibility with many doctors like myself. Their private for profit corporate mandate is to make and sell vaccines. And they make billions from them every year. That is why I look to the established science. Not what some biased corporate non-elected officer at the CDC or WHO says.

So my bowling brothers and sisters I think that both sides of this issue have presented their arguments. While there has been a lot of opinion, speculation, and reliance on private corporations such as the WHO and CDC, I have tried to keep to simple basic science, namely established protocols to determine a virus’ existence, is it causing something, death statistics, and some observations correlated to hard data, and Randomized Control Trial studies - the gold standard of medical studies. And while this discussion has gotten side tracked with additional comments and questions irrelevant to the main issue I have replied with reasonable answers with scientific evidence to refute those issues such as masks wearing. But the main argument remains unchallenged. No study using reasonable scientific protocols such as Koch’s, Rivers, or even Hill’s has been done to prove a pandemic caused by SARS-CoV-2 exists. It is up to you my bowling brothers and sisters to determine which set of arguments is sound and reasonable, or at the very least makes you think to look into this subject more. You can hear the other side in the mainstream news. My side of references that you can use are Dr. Andrew Kaufman, Dr. Rashid Buttar, Dr. Delores Cahill, Dr. Russel Blaylock, Dr. Sheri Tenpenny, Dr. Bruce Lipton, Dr. Judy Milkvitz, Dr. Pam Popper, Dr. Denis Rancourt, Dr. Stioan Alexov - President of the Bulgarian Pathology Association, Paul V Sheridan - http://pvsheridan.com/sheridan2fauci-1-21july2020.pdf, Del Bigtree journalist/producer on bitchute.com, Brian Rose -journalist on londonreal.tv, David Crowe - researcher at theinfectiousmyth.com, Jon Rapprt - journalist nomorefakenews.com, healthimpactnews.com to name a few. These professionals are on youtube or bitchute, or have their own websites.

I would also like to thank Megamav for allowing this discussion to be host here.
Right Handed Stats:
RPM (off hand) 390
Speed (off hand) 15.3 mph
Axis Tilt; 18 degrees
Axis Rotation: 55 degrees
PAP: 5 13/16" x 5/16" up

TomaHawk
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Re: General COVID-19 and Bowling Environment Discussion

Post by TomaHawk » August 14th, 2020, 2:33 am

Daryl, are you suggesting the studies conducted by the doctors, scientists, and professors at John Hopkins are fraudulent? That is a dangerous proposition. The U.S. is leading the world in all categories as they are related to the COVID virus. Is “wellness“ recognized by the world as a leader in the scientific community and void of political posturing?

Dr.Popper makes a statement in one of her YouTube releases stating that our rights are being violated. That is a political statement. Yet, you are perpetrating your argument is based on “scientific “ fact. Rights have nothing to do with the health and well being of an individual unless it’s a choice of living or dying.

Let me ask you this, if your mother had symptomatic issues with her health, would you place her in an environmental setting where the virus had been known to manifest itself? We have a lot of people visiting our shop who have known health issues. Are you suggesting, environmentally speaking, precautionary measures are a waste of time and energy?

BTW, my brother-in-law is a chemist. In an unprovoked statement he said: “Masks work. The more efficient the mask, the better it works. But, if you already have the disease...” He stopped there, the message was clear to me.

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