My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

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MegaMav
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My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by MegaMav »

I think the bowlers start too far left and dont allow the pattern to develop close enough to the left to right taper. This makes the hook spot develop in the flat part of the pattern and push carry down to the right down lane (ball is going right), the telling sign is the scores, they dont go up, but usually go below par (200) pretty quick. Another telling sign is the "Y" at the breakpoint the first 2 games until they forcibly blend the backend with carrydown. Hair misses right go way right and misses in are dead left. This shouldnt be if the pattern is broken down closer to the pattern slope. One more sign is when there is a lone lefty he usually runs the right over because the right is too busy fighting over who can get further left to loft the gutter. I dont buy "hold with angle" premise, I think its lazy, doesnt hold up for patterns with a longer buff and you will still be too shallow in the pattern in transition to have much help either way.

I'm not sure if this lane play strategy is by design to make it incredibly difficult for everyone. I really begin to wonder if this purely is a ball motion symptom. Balls hooking too much on the back for their releases, they feel they have to "give it room" to start, makes the task much harder.
Important point: Either way, if someone is bowling for a million bucks in a major final you'd think they would want to set it up better. Yes, I know the scores in the final have been high, but I'm convinced if they were starting a little further right, 300 would have happened already. We'll never know!

My opinion about the whole situation is, playing close to the gutter has been abandoned by most on tour, I have no idea why, playing close to the channel, the lane gives you angle to carry better automatically, see Cheetah scores from the past at 34-36 foot. Guys with bigger rev rates can play farther right (even on medium patterns) and still get it back to the pocket. I will never understand the race left, Bill O'Neill is someone I always see show up on a telecast, watch everyone throw it all over the yard from in and just play straight with surface further right, closer to the slope than his competitors and either win or be very close. Bill seems to get bad breaks on TV. He gets it, I think. Very smart.

I'm concerned reading on different social platforms (including BowlingChat) that ball reps and the bowlers cannot be questioned with lane play or ball decisions, as if they're untouchable and incapable of making poor decisions or there isnt a better way than theirs.

I'm going to get jumped all over for that comment, but I've heard anecdotes of drilling without PAPs or any specs, just punch and pop, so its a crap shoot at that point. I've asked ball reps very specific layout questions and got very cyptic, incomplete answers. Not much different from 25 years ago on the truck before we really understood core technology. If their decisions cannot be questioned at least for discussion, are they not human?

Last time I saw consistent "good" ball motion out of an asym on TV was when Walter Ray was on TV with MoRich, Walter was the best I've ever seen use the angle from the lane to his advantage. Since then, I think asyms I see on TV are too forward. I think the ball motions in general are too sharp on the backend and finishes appear to be too fine. In general reactives are too responsive due to layout so the defacto decision is to grab urethane for smoother reaction that can be grabbed the hell out of. Dont even get me started on that.

Overall I think the tour is going BACKWARD in terms of teaching the general public how to play tough patterns and the ball motion required to be effective. I dont think execution is all that great either. So many grabs and pitch outs. Many bowlers still look up to the pros to show the way, I think we have a long way to go in educating the public with that avenue. IMO bowling is in trouble and what I see happening on TV doesnt make much sense to me. I see many bowlers local bowl on patterns and have no idea whats going on I can see why, all they know is house shots and what they see on TV.

A glimmer of educational hope was Justin Wyman posting lane bed temps during the telecast, additional information to understand why balls may be doing different things between the lanes of the pair. Hooking more on a hot lane, etc.

I'll continue to watch as I'm a fan of the game and just watching how everything unfolds is entertaining from an analytical perspective. Thanks for reading!
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by GrumpyCatFace »

They’re definitely trying like hell to bring hype, to the point of being a bit embarrassing. The commentary has gone into cheerleader territory. It doesn’t look so much like a sport, as an x-games or something.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by TomaHawk »

The PBA is unrecognizable today. In other words, there is little similarity between the game presently seen on television when compared to the old ABC bowling telecast of yesteryear. That is to be expected though, what other sport in the world has gone through such significant changes?

Personally, I'm not a fan of today's version, but that doesn't matter. After every show there is a lot of talk in the shop. Surprisingly, it sounds similar to the conversations that were held decades ago. Yes, that's how long it's been since anyone has mentioned anything about televised bowling. The momentum seems to be escalating in terms of how the PBA is viewed. Young and old are joining in on the conversation. That's a good thing.

As far as equipment is concerned, PBA bowlers are going to use equipment that offers the most consistent look on the lane. If they thought asymmetrical cores would be to their advantage, most certainly, that is what we'd be seeing. The issue is how an asymmetrical responds to the varying lane conditions that are witnessed on the show. An asymmetrical could produced a totally unexpected response. With the constantly changing lane conditions as witnessed on the telecast, in a one game match, the bowler can ill afford to have a shot jump through the nose because the ball encountered a dry spot that wasn't there on the previous shot. Nothing throws the momentum in favor of the opponent faster than the Big Four. Bottom line if, we have to drill an asymmetrical "weak" to avoid that scenario, might as well be safe and use a symmetric.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by Glenn »

Heck, I might as well pile on.

I enjoy watching PBA bowling on FS1. Although I like watching the high-rev high-speed two-handed bowlers, my focus is on the more traditional bowlers like Bill O'Neil, Chris Barnes, etc. I particularly like it when the mics are on and you can hear the pros self-talk.

/rant on

The local scene is similar to that described above - dark ages on bowling knowledge - IMO. The pro shop drills round thumbs with attempts at oval thumbs being a disaster. I see Pins within 1/2-inch of a finger hole. I seldom see any effort to gather bowler specs for the non-elite bowler. A bowler will spend $40 to have the ball re-surfaced, and have no idea what surface is on the ball, or how to keep it fresh. Most will go to the lane-side polish machine for a weekly touch-up. It is interesting to see what particular product line is being pushed for a given year - Brunswick, Storm, Hammer, etc. I remember one year where every league bowler looking for a new ball came out of the shop with a new Brunswick Rhino.

Lane maintenance seems to be more of a breakdown endeavor, and lane oiling is a mystery. Machine brushes get changed once a year whether they need it or not. Why clean the pin decks when it is more fun to run to the back to correct Out-of-Range conditions. I firmly believe that the center should be required to post their 12:1 house oil pattern(s), and no tournament should ever be played on a house oil pattern. They don't rotate through 2 or 3 oil patterns, just burn in the same one. They never thought of laying down a social oil pattern for the recreational bowlers, infrequent oiling is better.

/rant off
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by boomer »

OK, I read the first post and thought. . . what have *I* been watching. Dual patterns with one being very right and straight and the other being quite left and swingy . . .

Chris Barnes had one ball with the pin in his palm (I think it was his) and one with pin up - to fit the two patterns. This went with what others were doing.

To me, my F-in-law and my kid, we've been actually amazed at how consistent the bowlers have been (based on the ball tracks, which I think are awesome) and how completely different the dual patterns have forced the bowlers to play - and yet they still succeed at it. I've LOVED seeing some of the "older" bowlers, like Barnes, like the bald guy who's name I can NOT remember without mixing it up with a rock bass player (ROFL)

I've actually enjoyed it. Heck, my wife has actually sat down and watched with me, and WATCHING bowling tends to send her into a coma. . .
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by RobMautner »

I too have really enjoyed the recent telecasts. One thing that I would love to see though, is a color commentator who understands anything about modern bowling. On the last telecast, RP referred to the right lane being "slicker" than the left lane. Really? Not one mention of topography and it's effect on ball motion.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by boomer »

that's true - RP seems to have dumbed things down quite a bit, which is a bummer to me. I have a feeling the network has asked to make things "more approachable to the general public" - and if that gets the ratings we NEED, more power to them. I would love to see him do a 30 second about the topography and the implications for the two lanes, etc.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by 44boyd »

RP actually made one good observation in this past weekend’s telecast by pointing out how Bill O’Neil bends his hand back at follow through so he doesn’t elbow a shot. I would doubt he’d be able to to put topography in lamen’s term by the way he struggles to describe oil transitions
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by Dax »

Telecasts, IMHO, have been good overall.

RP seems to over simplify things. I liked him but superficial analysis is not enough.

Can't wait for Barnes to take his job. He knows a thing or two about bowling.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by TomaHawk »

A discussion about Topography on a televised PBA event? That would open up a can of worms at your local tenpin center the likes of which has never been experienced before.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by kajmk »

Dax wrote: February 19th, 2020, 12:08 am Telecasts, IMHO, have been good overall.

RP seems to over simplify things. I liked him but superficial analysis is not enough.

Can't wait for Barnes to take his job. He knows a thing or two about bowling.
Disclaimer, I've not watched bowling since they've shifted to cable and streaming.
That's my own personal problem.
A few opinions.
Opinion, perhaps RP has been instructed to keep it simple.
Chris Barnes does a superb job. Chris seems to have the"teacher" gene, he is smart, knowledgeable, he cares. I think he is a good communicator.
RP is a light hearted and affable guy. He can probably hold his own in a sit down discussion. RP is there for his personality.
The best I recall ( I did not see Billy Welu) at doing the color was Earl Anthony. Marshall Holman did a nice job.
No announcer I recall approaches Denny Schreiner's skills at calling the game and being knowledgeable.
ESPN did the best overall job carrying PBA and LPBA.

Perhaps telecasters could conduct periodic surveys for user feedback.

Some folks like many of our readers, want to learn as much as they can.
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Re: My thoughts on PBA telecasts I've watched lately

Post by SomyP »

Personally, I don't mind the telecasts at all. If anything, it gets eyes on bowling, which is the most important thing. Also strike track showing how accurate and consistent the pros are, actually give a great perspective on what it takes to be a professional bowler. Take for instance, Tommy Jones' 300 game. Keep in mind it was on two different oil patterns. His speed and rev rate were about the same. All he changed was what ball he was throwing, and which line he was throwing. Ask your typical house bowler to bowl a 300 on dual patterns, and maybe the top 230-240 average bowlers in the house could do it.

Randy does keep it over simplified, but most of the viewers are casual fans. They aren't viewers like those here on this wonderful forum that love the game and want to learn as much as possible. Besides if Randy were to start talking about something like topography, the casual fan would be confused, and the league bowler would start complaining to their proprietor that the lanes aren't even enough, or don't play the same.

In my personal opinion, the best strategy to play the lanes, is play what they give you. If the lanes call for an outside shot, than learn to increase ball speed, cut down rotation, use the proper ball or any combination of the 3. On the flip side if it's oily do the same as an outside shot except decrease ball speed, maybe increase rotation, and still use proper ball.

The fact that bowling balls are shown being used by the pros is only one goal in mind, sales. Kris Prather won the TOC with an Idol solid and Omega Crux. Sales are bound to increase for the idol solid, and of course the pre-orders on the Omega Crux are sure to increase now. It is important that bowling continues to not just survive as a whole, but thrive as well. The PBA is doing all it can to get more eyes on bowling, and the fact that the money is finally good again is showing that professional bowling is a viable career choice, just be really good at bowling to make it a career.
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