USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

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USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by MegaMav » November 26th, 2019, 1:36 am

At the cost of bowling's participants and the sport.
More hands off with both hands out.
No lane certifications until 2022, everyone is legal even though most centers dont 100% comply with current spec.
Let me guess, they're going to loosen the spec or the inspection process so all centers pass without effort.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by bowl1820 » November 26th, 2019, 4:06 am

Tiered levels of certification, So basically their going to start giving centers a grade and "IF" the centers want to raise that grade they'll have to make some kind of improvement or whatever.

Well on the face of it that don't sound that bad, depending on how it's implemented, what each tier encompasses. Like what separates say a tier "A" from a "C" that sort of thing.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by guruU2 » November 26th, 2019, 4:52 am

we have been thru this before- in the 60's and the result was disastrous- one particular was the "left handed syndrome". Once again, I repeat, "if one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know".
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If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by star » November 26th, 2019, 3:18 pm

We use it in the UK now.

For us we have Gold,Silver and Bronze. Our centre was downgraded to a Bronze and it cost us our tour stop on the National Tour.

It was mainly due to one dodgy pair of lanes ( really old wooden) and a problem with our guardian. It has hurt our regional organisation as we have only one sanctioned centre. We always run an enjoyable tournament but have been majorly punished for something that is outside our control. Our tech tries hard but we are an AMF (Hollywood Bowl) and head office has final say. I cannot see them putting it right so we are now lost. Sad outcome.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by kajmk » November 26th, 2019, 4:45 pm

guruU2 wrote:
November 26th, 2019, 4:52 am
we have been thru this before- in the 60's and the result was disastrous- one particular was the "left handed syndrome". Once again, I repeat, "if one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know".
A Sean Connery line from an Indiana Jones movie said, "Our situation has not improved". It may be that not enough people care to let their opinions be known.

Realistically, what options are available to raise enough stink in the prevailing political winds of our dying sport?

Things change, not always for the better, most changes are money driven. The term "golden age" is used for that which we highly value and are nostalgic for, yet it is "the power of gold that renders such ages ephemeral ...

A clip on nostalgia from the perspective of one old enough to remember what many perceive as a golden age in another sport ...

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by magicmike » November 30th, 2019, 2:29 pm

While I respect the opinion that this is to "bail" out proprietors that aren't into investing tens of thousands to get their lanes up to spec, I also see the other side of it. I live in a small town, and not near any larger towns, most of the centers are older, aging, and their isn't money in the area to get these centers upgraded. We constantly are sad when we see centers close, and this I can see helping some stay afloat, as there are at least two small centers that would say they're done if they had to get lanes leveled/replaced.

This is a move though that benefits the recreational and casual sanctioned side, more than the competitive side, so I completely understand frustration (I was all centers were up to the specs, the one local center that has a newer lane installation is an absolute joy to bowl in because of how consistent the entire center plays).

I'm really curious to see what the actual tiers are defined as, and how much USBC is going to charge the proprietors or local branches for the inspections, because if it's thousands, it's not going to go over well.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by Pinbuster » December 2nd, 2019, 12:44 am

I see it more as bailing out local associations and another cost cutting move.

I know the members of the local association board here inspected the lanes. I'm sure they do a pretty good job but not as good as a national crew that is dedicated to inspecting lanes. I'm not sure what specialized equipment that is needed and whether each association needed to own or borrow that equipment but now there will be a limited number of national inspection teams with correctly calibrated equipment to do the inspection.

I'm reasonably sure that our local lanes meet physical specs for lanes being level, depth of flat gutters, etc.

But I'm also sure that other when the lanes were inspected the 3 unit rule is pretty much ignored. And unless you are willing to pull surprise inspections multiple times a year it will be ignored. And I can hear the howling of the USBC masses if the 3 unit rule was enforced strictly.

The USBC is pretty much a reflection of the membership as a whole not the 5% who want sport conditions at all times. Most members view bowling as a recreation not a sport.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by MegaMav » December 2nd, 2019, 12:57 am

Pinbuster wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 12:44 am
The USBC is pretty much a reflection of the membership as a whole not the 5% who want sport conditions at all times. Most members view bowling as a recreation not a sport.
If that's the case, why bother with a governing body at all? Let each proprietor run the joint how they want, let them crow bar up the edges of the lane and make it an official half pipe to the pocket.

We're practically there with it official from USBC that lane dressings are not regulated with zero units allowed. No balance hole rule was just for appearances now, they gave back the glimmer of even giving a damn about bowling as a sport with letting every donk mash the pocket at 30:1. It will separate rec from pro more and kill off the top end of our game.

Most in the area call my challenge league "sport level". Its funny to me, because I've bowled on true taped sport for years and it's not really that close. It's where we are and are going, it's a drive to the bottom like most things in our global economy. Enjoy anything harder than house while we have it. The cry babies from league are already demanding 30:1 for tournaments. Let the biggest grabber win!
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by MegaMav » December 2nd, 2019, 1:04 am

League bowling now has as much sport in it as hunting a bear tied to a tree. #tellmehowyoureallyfeel
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by Pinbuster » December 2nd, 2019, 1:02 pm

In any business you only stay alive if you can make happy customers be that bowling centers or the USBC.
The ABC tried to clamp down on lane dressing cheating in 1980’s but nearly got sued out of existence. They had to bow down to their customers, both the league bowlers and the proprietors.
The biggest ABC/USBC blunder was in ball technology. If they had outlawed anything but rubber and plastic from the start much of the scoring issues would have been solved.
I would pretty much guarantee that you could leave everything the same in bowling centers but eliminate all the balls but pancake block rubber and plastic and scoring would return to the 1970-1980 level. But few today would want to get rid of their high tech balls, they feel it is part of the game now.
Even here in Wichita there is not a full season sport league. A couple of centers will host 12 week leagues and they are not certified sport leagues. Centers have tried but they can’t get enough participation to make it work financially.
USBC has been bleeding membership and continues to do so. Without member dues their business model will not stay afloat and they can’t afford to loose a third of their membership to force even challenge league conditions.
They can’t make enough money thru tournaments, TV deals, etc to fund operations. The only answer I can come up with is for bowling centers to pay a lane bed fee. But when you do that the bowling proprietors really take over and you think cheating is bad now.
I too wish bowling would go to more challenging conditions in league bowling but I can’t see how a governing body can survive doing that.

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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by MegaMav » December 2nd, 2019, 8:23 pm

Buster,

Its all about the USBC hanging on for dear life on this drive to the bottom, long enough for "Murph-dog" and other officers to retire.

USBC promoted sport bowling somewhat around 10 years ago. All the PBA Experience promos, videos, advertising got people out to try it.
I've noticed they've since stopped. I wish there were incentives by USBC to bowl sport.
Take the awards and "honors" away from the house shot bowlers and put it into the more difficult avenues of bowling.
Its become a joke anyway, who even applauds a 300 anymore? "The crowd goes mild!"

My thought: No units, no awards.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by 44boyd » December 2nd, 2019, 9:46 pm

I’m fine with THS awards, but additional awards for challenge and sport shots would be nice to recognize accomplishments.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by Dustin » December 2nd, 2019, 10:00 pm

The USBC proved to be full of BS by implementing the elimination of balance hole because they were concerned about "lane pattern integrity." They are so worried they now allow 0 units of oil on the outside of the lanes and all lanes are certified until 2022. Hell of a reason (lane integrity) when the rest of the rules completely contradict what their reasoning was to begin with. Sounds like throwing darts in the dark. Total BS and I foresee a few leagues in our center no longer being certified with they way thing are progressing, or should I say regressing.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by DarkHorse » December 5th, 2019, 3:34 am

Pinbuster wrote:
December 2nd, 2019, 12:44 am
I see it more as bailing out local associations and another cost cutting move.

I know the members of the local association board here inspected the lanes. I'm sure they do a pretty good job but not as good as a national crew that is dedicated to inspecting lanes. I'm not sure what specialized equipment that is needed and whether each association needed to own or borrow that equipment but now there will be a limited number of national inspection teams with correctly calibrated equipment to do the inspection.

I'm reasonably sure that our local lanes meet physical specs for lanes being level, depth of flat gutters, etc.

But I'm also sure that other when the lanes were inspected the 3 unit rule is pretty much ignored. And unless you are willing to pull surprise inspections multiple times a year it will be ignored. And I can hear the howling of the USBC masses if the 3 unit rule was enforced strictly.

The USBC is pretty much a reflection of the membership as a whole not the 5% who want sport conditions at all times. Most members view bowling as a recreation not a sport.
I am a Board Member for my local Association.
We are a small Association, with just over 2000 bowlers in 7 houses.

Being local or national has no bearing on how "good" a job is done - it depends on the team/people.

Regarding equipment, you need at least 1 calibrated lane level and feeler gauges, another level for the pin decks, a way to measure the width of the lane and gutters across the pin deck (tape measure or laser), and the depth of the flat gutters.
We are required to send our levels in for calibration every 2 years, so there will be no difference unless USBC uses different kinds of equipment.

I'm reasonably certain your local lanes do not meet all physical specs. The fact that most lanes are out of spec is ostensibly why USBC is taking such a drastic step.

Regarding your comment "bailing out local associations":
We were able to charge for the service we provided. It wasn't much (I'm thinking around $4/lane), but we are a small association, and those fees helped us stay in the black every year. Now, we get none of those fees. USBC is NOT bailing us out, but is in fact taking away a revenue stream.

I'm reasonably sure USBC will charge more than $4/lane - I can't see them sending 2 people to shut down a 32-lane house for an entire day for a total fee of $128. Likely, they'll send a team of 5 or more (we typically want 6 people to get 32-lanes done in around 2 hours), and charge enough to cover that labor and travel expenses.

So tell me, whose costs are being cut?

USBC has released no real info about the proposed Tier system yet, so we have no way of knowing if proprietors will care enough to do more than the minimum.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by Glenn » December 5th, 2019, 1:58 pm

Dark Horse, the post is titled "bailing out proprietors", not local associations - just saying.

And, I agree that having a dedicated USBC inspection crew should be more expensive, and take longer to complete overall (not knowing how many teams will exist) when you consider salaries, benefits, and travel expenses. And the equipment could be much more expensive if they are considering such tools as the Kegel Lane Mapper (how many?) - it is no longer $4/lane.

I believe our association covers four centers (two larger 36-lane and two smaller 12-lane centers). The two larger centers seem to be doing well, and all four serve food, have a liquor license, and offer video gaming. One large center is a synthetic/wood hybrid, the other large center is full synthetic, and the two smaller centers are all wood whose condition is questionable. None of the centers will share any topography or house oil pattern details - it is a secret. One lane man has bragged that he is in compliance for only about 30 minutes after an (on oil pattern) inspection.

I tell you this because I believe that our larger centers are in good financial shape (been doing remodeling) and could afford the cost of upkeep/upgrades but choose to improve their bottom line with their focus on recreational bowling (they have a large league presence, too). The smaller centers are another story being located in smaller population areas and smaller league numbers. They may be relegated to social bowling only and pushed out of sanctioned league status. One of the smaller centers currently hosts an annual PBA event, and like Star said above, I do not know if that will continue under new USBC rules.

This new tier approach might level the playing field a little and address some of the ridiculous scoring on some of these sanctioned leagues. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
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Re: USBC finds another way to bail out proprietors

Post by kajmk » December 5th, 2019, 4:14 pm

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

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