Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

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chemE
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Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by chemE » October 13th, 2019, 5:15 am

Hello all,

I have been out of the game for a while and I'm just getting back into it. Before I was never really into the technical aspect of layouts, ball types, rev rate, playing style, etc... I would just get a ball, have it drilled and then just throw it. I am now trying to understand more about my play style and also trying to work on improvement.

I am trying to determine my axis tilt, axis rotation, ball speed, and rev rate so that I am better able to choose a new ball. I made a video on my phone using coach's eye. Basically, I found my PAP with an amarillo, then put a piece of tape from my PAP to my finger holes.

[youtube][/youtube]

From my video I am getting the following, 14.5mph ball speed, almost 85-90 degrees axis rotation, I'd say 15 to 20 degree axis tilt, and finally about 275 rpm.

First of all, I am not sure if I'm interpreting correctly. Second it seems like my rev rate is very low but I tend to get a sharp back end action, is this due to my axis rotation?

Appreciate the help in advance!

krava
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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by krava » October 13th, 2019, 7:22 am

if it is 275 and 14.5 then your rev dominate. it would be better to see the video in normal speed though.

so watch this: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (mo Pinel talking about building an arsenal). A lot of that stuff goes over my head. Especially talking about PSA in the thumb in a asymmetric and then a PSA on the VAL angle. I got no idea what that does. He does try to explain it but that I think is for Speed dominate people.

if it was me, the first ball is a spare ball. 2nd ball would be probably a symmetric medium oil ball. I would suggest a Hy-road (ALL road is new but I don't think a lot of people like it) but I won't tell you how to drill it.

if you want a different brand you can go with Radical The Squatch (the greatest hide and seeker of all time). You can go with a game breaker 3 Ebonite.

I wouldn't go with the storm supersonic though. I have the ball and wasn't getting under the ball and having lower revs and the ball wasn't doing much of nothing. Now that I am getting under the thing, the ball rolls just so much nicer and is the best ball I have next to the conspiracy solid.

I went to stormbowling.com and put your stats in for what you said you had and it told me a storm fever bitch for medium lanes. I was told a supersonic myself (I added more rpms for getting under the ball when I did, which haven't exactly been verified yet).

chemE
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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by chemE » October 13th, 2019, 2:36 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Here is the full speed video.

What I am throwing in this video is a Lane #1 Boomerang.

I believe it is symmetrical core (I don't see a marker/locator). It's drilled with pin above my ring finger and cg kicked out to the right. Also has a balance hole which I'm going to have to plug. I believe it's drilled 45 degrees x 3.75" x 45 degrees with a balance hole right below the grip center line on the VAL.

I've been watching Mo's videos to try to learn. But from what I can tell that ball is drilled strong, but more of a smooth arking overall shape.

Actually already ordered a storm Astrophysics to replace my Lane #1 dirty bomb. I asked my pro shop guy to drill it so that it goes longer down the lane and then is sharper at the end...

But I'm looking at getting a Radical ball too... Something different, maybe the squatch, or the zing.

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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by krava » October 15th, 2019, 4:05 am

I could be wrong but I don't think you are "under the ball" The thumb is on top of the ball and fingers are too high up coming out. your on the side of the ball. That wasn't one of the things that you asked about but if you ever fixed that, your axis roation and tilt will change so you won't have all that rotation you have now. I might be wrong but I think that 80-90 degree rotation you have is what is getting the ball to hook. I am not good in that area at all.

boomer
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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by boomer » October 15th, 2019, 4:00 pm

You have much more of a suitcase delivery - your fingers are at 3:00 and your thumb is near 9:00-10:00.

Often this comes from trying to get a hook - it kinda is the easy way to get it. It's what I was taught originally. However, it has some significant drawbacks:

1. the amount of rotational change that your ball has to go through to go from your hand's rotation (almost 90 degrees) to where the ball will rotate when it hits the pins (around 8 degrees) is pretty extreme. That's a LOT of flare and means you won't get much (if any) benefit of your ball rotation - you will kill off all of that roll to make the turn.

2. You're RIGHT at the edge of back-spinning the ball. If you pull the ball down AT ALL, your hand will end up well ahead of your ball and you will get back-spin with leads to a lot of bad things. It can be unpredictable and very jumpy. My m-in-law does this all the time and it's hard to get her back out of. You have to be VEEERY careful - I tell her to keep her pinky behind the ball, to FEEL her pinky on the ball all the way - then she stays right on the side and maybe a touch behind and gives her much more predictability and control.


Quite often, from what I've observed, this comes from trying to pull the ball down.

I'd recommend letting the ball pull you (if you get what I'm saying there) along the swing. In this way, your ball will stay ahead of your hand and you can also think "roll the ball off my fingers" which will give you a better attack angle on your ball.

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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by kajmk » October 15th, 2019, 4:20 pm

I wrote this before I saw that boomer had already responded.
Thus some of what I wrote may be redundant.

Mind you, I'm writing this after viewing a video where you put TEN IN THE PIT!!
How often do you do that?



To chemE, welcome back. krava's observation about your RPM rate is the main reason for your RPM rate.
Sounds like you are really in to the technical aspects and ball dynamics. You have your own Armadillo. I think you enjoy Mo Pinel's videos on YouTube.
There is a lot of good information about equipment at
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... Technology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My gut feeling is you should prioritize your physical game first and body alignment to line of intent.

Any injuries, physical constraints, play other sports, work out?
Have you viewed yourself bowling via recording, if so what angles?

Where one starts the movement on a Yo-Yo or Frisbee dictates the spin rate ...

Elite instructor Mark Baker makes an analogy about the way to construct or fix a bowler's game is similar to putting a jigsaw puzzle together. He likens the release to a center piece.
His main point is that you don't start at the center, you start with the framework, the corners and straight edged pieces.

From your video, I see things that indicate you have other things that should be addressed in order for you to be a better you. Working 1:1 with an instructor is a good start.
There is an article on video recording on the wiki

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... e_Coaching" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like many of us, I too often put the cart before the horse, that is, start with instruction, optimize your game. You can spend thousands on bowling balls like me and not improve and never get your money's worth.

I hope you'll take the time to watch this short video through the [youtube][/youtube]

The following is an article on an ELITE type of release. Not easy to do and not for all, but it gives a clue about imparting RPMS.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... f_the_ball" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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MeNoRevs
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Re: Question about axis rotation and tilt and other stats

Post by MeNoRevs » October 15th, 2019, 4:36 pm

Everyone has their own release characteristics. What is important is to know what your numbers are and picking a bowling ball and drilling that suits that style.

Using the overlay tool

Axis tilt - 15
Axis rotation - 75

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