Teammate/urethane - now with some strategy
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- Mongo
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Teammate/urethane - now with some strategy
This summer is going to be a learning experience.
Got recruited to bowl a trios league this summer and have discovered that one of my teammates is a two hander who really likes urethane. This isn't something I've seen much on league shots, so this has been painful.
It would be nice if I could tell you that he's just blowing up a strip, but accuracy is not his strong suit. Pretty much everything left of 10 is blown apart by the 3rd game.
I watched JR Raymond's video and he recommended opening up angles with something strong to go around it. Tonight, had some success (minus some user error) with my Conspiracy (70 x 4.5 x 50, 3000 finish), but it was d-u-n done by the 3rd game. I tried my Prowler with the same layout, flat. I really don't want to buy anything just for a league, but I've got a couple of NIB Real Ones, an Absolute Nirvana, and a NIB Kingpin SE. I'm open to punching one of those with something to transition to once the Conspiracy is done. I'm sure a higher ratio would help.
Suggestions?
Got recruited to bowl a trios league this summer and have discovered that one of my teammates is a two hander who really likes urethane. This isn't something I've seen much on league shots, so this has been painful.
It would be nice if I could tell you that he's just blowing up a strip, but accuracy is not his strong suit. Pretty much everything left of 10 is blown apart by the 3rd game.
I watched JR Raymond's video and he recommended opening up angles with something strong to go around it. Tonight, had some success (minus some user error) with my Conspiracy (70 x 4.5 x 50, 3000 finish), but it was d-u-n done by the 3rd game. I tried my Prowler with the same layout, flat. I really don't want to buy anything just for a league, but I've got a couple of NIB Real Ones, an Absolute Nirvana, and a NIB Kingpin SE. I'm open to punching one of those with something to transition to once the Conspiracy is done. I'm sure a higher ratio would help.
Suggestions?
Last edited by Mongo on July 23rd, 2019, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Took out the Pro Sect and threw a 75 x 4 x 25 on a Real One just to see what it looks like.
100 sum, 3:1 ratio. Would knock the box finish down to 2000. That should be able to chew through the carrydown, shouldn't it?
100 sum, 3:1 ratio. Would knock the box finish down to 2000. That should be able to chew through the carrydown, shouldn't it?
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
I'd like to add I hate urethane very much.
I'm also a hypocrite who will be taking it to nationals.
I'm also a hypocrite who will be taking it to nationals.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- snick
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Ask your teammate to wipe his track thoroughly between shots. Leather (Pure pad) is ideal.
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- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Nice thought, but probably not going to happen. He's not the most detail oriented person.snick wrote:Ask your teammate to wipe his track thoroughly between shots. Leather (Pure pad) is ideal.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Update
On a whim, I took my Black Hammer out and had them put down some fresh just to see what was out there.
I understand why he is throwing urethane. So long as I catch it, My target is somewhere between 6-8 at the arrows. Carry can be flaky, but it's impossible to miss the hole and transition is much more predictable...just keep moving out. Just have to get the 5 out.
So, rather than fight it, I'm going to be a total hypocrite and join in.....at least on this league. He can't throw anything but urethane, so I know that's a constant.
On a whim, I took my Black Hammer out and had them put down some fresh just to see what was out there.
I understand why he is throwing urethane. So long as I catch it, My target is somewhere between 6-8 at the arrows. Carry can be flaky, but it's impossible to miss the hole and transition is much more predictable...just keep moving out. Just have to get the 5 out.
So, rather than fight it, I'm going to be a total hypocrite and join in.....at least on this league. He can't throw anything but urethane, so I know that's a constant.
Last edited by Mongo on June 28th, 2019, 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Update #2.
Tried the urethane experiment one week. Same BS....but because it was urethane. 248 then barely shot 400 next 2. Got some solid practice on shooting corner pins.
So, next week, I go back to resin and slow roll it with some success and manage to shoot two 240s before I get to practice spares.
This week was just brutal. They were a little tighter, so I was right on top of him. By the middle of the second game, he had fried the heads so bad that my ball checked as soon as I laid it down.
At this point, no good idea comes to mind. I have to get away from him, but he's so wild, I'd have to basically play away from the shot (17-20 out to 10, avoiding the dry) with stronger equipment, but smoother surface (remember the mids still hook).
The other option is to slow roll weaker equipment so my ball will make better contact with the lane and maybe pick up a hair sooner. Not my strong suit, but might be good practice for the rest of the summer.
In today's environment of heavier oils and wild hi-rev guys using urethane to give them a crutch, I figure I have to learn how to negotiate it. I'm just treating this as a learning opportunity now.
It's annoying because I've bowled long enough that I feel like I should be able to figure this out, but not having any luck right now. On the bright side, my corner pin % has gone up 5% or so.
Tried the urethane experiment one week. Same BS....but because it was urethane. 248 then barely shot 400 next 2. Got some solid practice on shooting corner pins.
So, next week, I go back to resin and slow roll it with some success and manage to shoot two 240s before I get to practice spares.
This week was just brutal. They were a little tighter, so I was right on top of him. By the middle of the second game, he had fried the heads so bad that my ball checked as soon as I laid it down.
At this point, no good idea comes to mind. I have to get away from him, but he's so wild, I'd have to basically play away from the shot (17-20 out to 10, avoiding the dry) with stronger equipment, but smoother surface (remember the mids still hook).
The other option is to slow roll weaker equipment so my ball will make better contact with the lane and maybe pick up a hair sooner. Not my strong suit, but might be good practice for the rest of the summer.
In today's environment of heavier oils and wild hi-rev guys using urethane to give them a crutch, I figure I have to learn how to negotiate it. I'm just treating this as a learning opportunity now.
It's annoying because I've bowled long enough that I feel like I should be able to figure this out, but not having any luck right now. On the bright side, my corner pin % has gone up 5% or so.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
-
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
My gosh, that’s a lot of work to avoid his chaos he’s causing..... I feel for you. Sounds worse than actually bowling sports/PBA shots.
Stay with it, you’ll find your Niche; You’ll definitely on the right track.
Stay with it, you’ll find your Niche; You’ll definitely on the right track.
Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
I'm guessing that the team has spoken to this person and explained what is happening to the lanes, and to no avail. Evidently it's self before team with him.Mongo wrote:
Nice thought, but probably not going to happen. He's not the most detail oriented person.
Maybe he is used to housekeeping service.
Each week bring in an empty can with X dip sticks in it, cut 1 to a short length, each man draws a dip stick, short stick is Oil Pan Harry's Match Valet.
Yeah, this was no help at all, just trying to "inject" (hmm an oil pun?) some humor.
Good luck!
[youtube][/youtube]
Oil Pan Harry, derived from Oil Can Harry, a villain in the Mighty Mouse Series.
[youtube][/youtube]
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
How far left is he blowing it up to?
Trying to get my son to work on playing 35+ (Feet)to 15 +/- (break)(rh) and use a baby bump to get the ball to the pocket and avoid that type mess when it happens.
He absolutely HATES. it. But it does work when your desperate because someone has blown everything to hell. Typically, no one plays there, especially if they’re blowing up the normal areas.
Great mindset to use the league as practice and figure out what to do should you ever encounter it again.
Trying to get my son to work on playing 35+ (Feet)to 15 +/- (break)(rh) and use a baby bump to get the ball to the pocket and avoid that type mess when it happens.
He absolutely HATES. it. But it does work when your desperate because someone has blown everything to hell. Typically, no one plays there, especially if they’re blowing up the normal areas.
Great mindset to use the league as practice and figure out what to do should you ever encounter it again.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Not sure if I clarified this, but we're both LH and this is a trios league.psycaz wrote:How far left is he blowing it up to?
Trying to get my son to work on playing 35+ (Feet)to 15 +/- (break)(rh) and use a baby bump to get the ball to the pocket and avoid that type mess when it happens.
He absolutely HATES. it. But it does work when your desperate because someone has blown everything to hell. Typically, no one plays there, especially if they’re blowing up the normal areas.
Great mindset to use the league as practice and figure out what to do should you ever encounter it again.
His laydown is in the 7-10 area....it spreads out from there. I'd guesstimate his rev rate is in the 475-500 range. I kid you not, his ball can be on 2 or 12 at the breakpoint, so that should give you an idea. He's throwing an old Turbo of his dad's that hasn't been touched in years (surface or cleaning). Watching him throw resin is painful because he can't play farther right than 10.
This past week, the right lane was tighter anyway, but by early in the 2nd game, I honestly think there was a puddle about 5 feet from the pin deck. On top of that, he chewed the heads to pieces.
He will tell you "I just wind up and throw it out there". He isn't kidding. He is aware that is kills me, but I don't think he'd break 550 with anything else (he averages 225 with urethane).
I'm going to give up on pressing the issue and use the rest of the season to work on speed control and playing deeper angles to make the most of it. I'm not bowling with him in the fall.....or ever again for that matter.
This even has me playing with picking up 2 handed. I'm not that old.
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
Very sad commentary on the state of bowling. Mind you, I'm not in anyway opposed to the 2 handed style.He will tell you "I just wind up and throw it out there". He isn't kidding. He is aware that is kills me, but I don't think he'd break 550 with anything else (he averages 225 with urethane).
The bad news is that to the casual observer who just watched the pin shrapnel, they may think he is a good bowler.
I'd chip in and pay for the mechanic to put down a challenging shot just to see his reaction.
Sad.
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
kajmk wrote:He will tell you "I just wind up and throw it out there". He isn't kidding. He is aware that is kills me, but I don't think he'd break 550 with anything else (he averages 225 with urethane).
I agree. The fact that today's environment can allow one bowler to completely destroy a side by using urethane is ridiculous.Very sad commentary on the state of bowling. Mind you, I'm not in anyway opposed to the 2 handed style.
Check. For example, the third person on our team.The bad news is that to the casual observer who just watched the pin shrapnel, they may think he is a good bowler.
To his credit, he'll bowl on hard stuff, not very well, but he will try it. Also, he beat me at nationals....with a lot of brooklyns, but "scoreboard" lolI'd chip in and pay for the mechanic to put down a challenging shot just to see his reaction.
I have no problem with urethane in the right situations. I kind of have a problem with it being a crutch for people who are so wild they can't throw anything else. Mainly because it's so destructive to just about any oil pattern and props them up while it takes everybody else out.Sad.
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JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
- Mongo
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Re: So, I've got a teammate using urethane
I've whined and complained, but I'm still trying to learn how to combat this since urethane isn't going anywhere.
Let's revisit what happens with urethane.
Urethane tends to have more surface texture, but does not absorb oil like reactive resin. The result is you have a situation where the heads, particularly the laydown spot, dries out and the oil is moved downlane.
I've tried different layouts, ball speed adjustments, surface tweaks, and other things. None of which ever gave me much of a ball reaction in the last game or two.
Well, after digging in, doing some research, and experimentation, I think I've got a good way to attack urethane destruction.
Step 1
Plan on playing them straighter than normal. Tighter angles calm down the transition and tone down the "what the ****" moments you can have when that blob of oil hits your break point.
Step 2
Reverse the thought process on transitioning through your bag. When your ball starts to lay off down lane, you're hitting carrydown, ball up. You're going to need a little extra to chew through that nice little puddle that your lane mate has deposited down there for you
Step 3
buuuuuttttt.....they're also chewing up the heads, so, you've got to get through that velcro upfront.
I've had the best success by lofting it over the first 5-6 feet. I also tried speeding it up and twirling it (more tilt), but the ball didn't want to pick up. Lofting it, I maintained my tilt, RPM, and rotation, which you need with the tighter backends.
It's a different combo and goes against what your normal thought process with transition, but I've been having more success than I had with other adjustments, so I may be on to something. if I see anything different, I'll update as needed.
Let's revisit what happens with urethane.
Urethane tends to have more surface texture, but does not absorb oil like reactive resin. The result is you have a situation where the heads, particularly the laydown spot, dries out and the oil is moved downlane.
I've tried different layouts, ball speed adjustments, surface tweaks, and other things. None of which ever gave me much of a ball reaction in the last game or two.
Well, after digging in, doing some research, and experimentation, I think I've got a good way to attack urethane destruction.
Step 1
Plan on playing them straighter than normal. Tighter angles calm down the transition and tone down the "what the ****" moments you can have when that blob of oil hits your break point.
Step 2
Reverse the thought process on transitioning through your bag. When your ball starts to lay off down lane, you're hitting carrydown, ball up. You're going to need a little extra to chew through that nice little puddle that your lane mate has deposited down there for you
Step 3
buuuuuttttt.....they're also chewing up the heads, so, you've got to get through that velcro upfront.
I've had the best success by lofting it over the first 5-6 feet. I also tried speeding it up and twirling it (more tilt), but the ball didn't want to pick up. Lofting it, I maintained my tilt, RPM, and rotation, which you need with the tighter backends.
It's a different combo and goes against what your normal thought process with transition, but I've been having more success than I had with other adjustments, so I may be on to something. if I see anything different, I'll update as needed.
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.
Re: Teammate/urethane - now with some strategy
Mongo,
I am very interested in your post/experience as I face the same/similar thing in two summer leagues. And, like you, I do not intend to bowl with him/them this fall. We seem to have a little more urethane showing up here, usually Storm Code somethings mostly.
But one guy is bowling with the old Faball Black Hammer, and he's right-handed as am I. He's displayed every characteristic you describe. He has the additional attribute of the first oil ring going between his fingers and squarely over this thumb. Thus, you hear the thump-thump-thump as the ball goes down the lane. I suspect that either his ball is incorrectly drilled for him, or it is due to him lofting the ball to the arrows, or both.
I am very interested in your post/experience as I face the same/similar thing in two summer leagues. And, like you, I do not intend to bowl with him/them this fall. We seem to have a little more urethane showing up here, usually Storm Code somethings mostly.
But one guy is bowling with the old Faball Black Hammer, and he's right-handed as am I. He's displayed every characteristic you describe. He has the additional attribute of the first oil ring going between his fingers and squarely over this thumb. Thus, you hear the thump-thump-thump as the ball goes down the lane. I suspect that either his ball is incorrectly drilled for him, or it is due to him lofting the ball to the arrows, or both.
- Mongo
- Certified Coach
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- Joined: March 13th, 2014, 5:33 am
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2" over, 1 1/2" up
- Speed: 18 MPH
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 80
- Preferred Company: DV8/Radical
Re: Teammate/urethane - now with some strategy
My guy is throwing a Black Turbo that hasn't seen a shammy or a towel in a long, long time. No thumb, huge rev rate, uses every board from 2-12 down lane.Glenn wrote:Mongo,
I am very interested in your post/experience as I face the same/similar thing in two summer leagues. And, like you, I do not intend to bowl with him/them this fall. We seem to have a little more urethane showing up here, usually Storm Code somethings mostly.
But one guy is bowling with the old Faball Black Hammer, and he's right-handed as am I. He's displayed every characteristic you describe. He has the additional attribute of the first oil ring going between his fingers and squarely over this thumb. Thus, you hear the thump-thump-thump as the ball goes down the lane. I suspect that either his ball is incorrectly drilled for him, or it is due to him lofting the ball to the arrows, or both.
He knows he's blows the lane up, but has zero control, so he has to use urethane.
I usually like to open the lane up a bit, but, with him, I'm keeping it pretty tight with myMag 035 solid (4000), then, when I start to see the ball flattening out, I go to my Intel (2000). I'll add a little loft if I see it starting to read early.
740 with a 279 to close last week, so that was a good sign.
USBC Silver Certified Coach
JMerrell wrote:Mongo,
We need to work on getting that teddy bear body of yours more open throughout the approach.