Can not throw a hook

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Sangy
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Can not throw a hook

Post by Sangy » May 1st, 2019, 4:33 pm

I will start by saying that I CAN get a ball to curve in a couple of different ways. However, I can not produce a 'true' hook.

No matter what I try, unless I specifically do things wrong in order to produce a false hook (ie spinning the ball). I can get a bit of hook without spinning, but it's not a real hook, either, as the reaction dies upwards of 5-6 feet ahead of the pins.

So here's the issue. No matter how hard I try, despite advice from a coach saying a certain release will get the desired rotation, when I release the ball it basically just rolls end-over-end immediately. There might be SOME tilt to the axis, but the rotation is still aimed straight up the lane. Even when I try to over exaggerate my release motion and bring my hand ALL the way around the ball in a way I would never be comfortable with, I can't put a real hook on the ball.

To put it very clearly, there is absolutely no skid phase in my shot. Zero feet of skid, period. I can bowl upwards of 17 MPH pretty comfortably, but have no problems bowling as low as 12mph. I've bowled with older team mates on league who throw as low as 8mph and still have their ball skid to the end of the oil, so all I know is that speed is not the issue.

Has anyone else ever had this issue? It seems like no one I've talked to has ever even heard of my issue, because it's always the same advice: Proper hand/wrist position on release WILL hook the ball, even if it won't be a strong hook or will have low revs. Well, I can tell you for a fact that there's SOMETHING more to it than that, because no hand/wrist position makes and difference. I've even tried 4-5 different types of release from lofting, to smooth stroking up the back to flinging it out to my target. Everything just produces the same end-over-end roll down the lane.

Right now, the only reason any of my shots hook at all is because the core in a modern ball will hook it at least a little no matter what you do. But that does nothing to get a good angle of entry or prevent the ball from just deflecting off the pins every time.

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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by 44boyd » May 1st, 2019, 5:27 pm

Post a video to see what is happening. Sometimes what you feel you’re doing and what is actually happening is totally different. Rolling end over end is a good indicator that nothing is happening at release, so you could be pulling the ball down in the swing causing a broken wrist/getting on top of the ball. Hence why we need video.
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TonyPR
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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by TonyPR » May 2nd, 2019, 3:52 am

It’s all right to feel frustrated, I know I visit that place often. You are taking a step in the right direction asking here for advice, we aren’t like other forums... consider this the bowling nerd forum where you have industry professionals, qualified coaches, engineering geeks and everything in between.

As said above, the best way for us to help you is posting rear and side view vids in one of our coaching sections, I like the certified coaching one. Please follow video guidelines in the sticky at the beginning of the coaching section.

The release is the conclusion of other very important things that will take you to a proper leverage position where you can finally transfer energy to the ball. You can practice the release all you want but if there’s an issue with timing or swing plane there is now way a proper release is going to happen. 17 mph is great speed, you got something going for you. Post videos so we can identify what’s happening in your approach that’s keeping you from effectively executing an effective release. Stay positive, acknowledge your frustrations, let them go, open your mind to being coachable and follow the exercises that will be assigned and I’ll assure you you’ll learn what you seek.

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kajmk
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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by kajmk » May 2nd, 2019, 7:14 pm

Currently inout to sea, very spotty internet access, but I did want to add a few tidbits.

I think self awareness was mentioned

The use of mirrors can help, that and self study via video.

Keeping it short, here are a few items

Schockley's vid nice visual

[youtube][/youtube]


Articles on wiki and Clifton's articles.

Also note that the ball characteristics and drilling impact the SHAPE of the shot, e.g. hockey stick, arc ...

Norm Duke has some short videos showing drills and technique, check YouTube.
Clifton articles and ETBF will discuss swing technique and using not abusing gravity.
Helpful thought, on the downswing, imagine a Thumbtack between the ball and your hand, just ride the ball down to near the nadir of the swing.

Hope this was useful, thumb tack is a Clifton cue.
Also look up Mullens nickel drill on this forum.
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There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by mrbean » July 16th, 2019, 10:52 pm

i have been working on my release and swing recently too. my PSO who is also my coach, is getting me more end over end roll and its helped quite a bit. 2 things i can say from my experience.

come through the ball not around it. when you release feel if the ball/grips rub on the side of your fingers or on the tips.

get the basics first and then tweak it for your style or the shots you bowl on.

you could try this video, i used it a lot. one thing to remember is you don't have too be an exact copy of any pro. take what you like and what you can use and if it doesn't help ignore it. the reason i say this, i had 3 months of bad scores trying to copy mike fagen (love that backswing) and after 2 months i decided it wasn't working, well then i had to break some release habits that weren't helping.
[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by Jeff4580 » July 22nd, 2019, 3:31 pm

I've struggled with much the same problem since I switched from a half thumb style that I used when I was younger that resulted in massive hook, but was nearly impossible to keep consistent. I can tell you that what has worked for me is cocking my wrist (pinky towards the forearm) at the top of my back swing, and relaxing my wrist at the bottom resulting in a bit of flick back to straight at release. This has been giving me a pretty decent hook even with my wrist being broken backwards. Keeping a cupped or even a firm straight wrist gives more hook, but tends to make my hand and wrist hurt more, so I've moved away from it. I will also agree with what one of the other posters said and highly recommend taking some slow motion video with your phone or something to help you see what you're really doing and adjust. I didn't really start seeing improvement until I started recording and reviewing my shots. I quickly found that what I thought I was doing wasn't at all what it looked like on camera. Good luck getting your hook nailed down.

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Re: Can not throw a hook

Post by kajmk » July 22nd, 2019, 5:22 pm

Sangy, what is your status?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

John

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