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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:58 pm Post Number: #21 Post
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So if, as you say (and I agree) that Nascar and Golf are boring, how do you explain their ratings and popularity?

Nascar - can't say participation, because the number of people who can afford to race is small; the number who can afford to race (time AND money - it takes both - I can no longer afford either) at any kind of competitive level is smaller. Waiting for disaster? Always heard that. . .

Golf - can say participation since quite a lot of people do golf, but enough to justify hours long very soft-spoken (might I say sleep-inducing?) broadcasts? Definitely no disasters coming, at least no multi-car wrecks. . .


And how would we leverage these insights into bowling?


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:13 pm Post Number: #22 Post
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boomer wrote:
So if, as you say (and I agree) that Nascar and Golf are boring, how do you explain their ratings and popularity?

Nascar - can't say participation, because the number of people who can afford to race is small; the number who can afford to race (time AND money - it takes both - I can no longer afford either) at any kind of competitive level is smaller. Waiting for disaster? Always heard that. . .

Golf - can say participation since quite a lot of people do golf, but enough to justify hours long very soft-spoken (might I say sleep-inducing?) broadcasts? Definitely no disasters coming, at least no multi-car wrecks. . .


And how would we leverage these insights into bowling?


Last I heard, Nascar was on the decline. However, not saying they aren't good on ratings, but not nearly as popular as UFC or the WWE on some levels(ask anyone who Hulk Hogan is and they will know).

We have to popularize the players. Let natural friction and controversy play out. Look at Kyle Troup. His style of clothing and trade mark use of the pick make him stand out. It is those elements that make him stand out. Remember, you are playing to a broader base these days.


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:34 pm Post Number: #23 Post
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b3y0nd3r wrote:

Last I heard, Nascar was on the decline. However, not saying they aren't good on ratings, but not nearly as popular as UFC or the WWE on some levels(ask anyone who Hulk Hogan is and they will know).

We have to popularize the players. Let natural friction and controversy play out. Look at Kyle Troup. His style of clothing and trade mark use of the pick make him stand out. It is those elements that make him stand out. Remember, you are playing to a broader base these days.


True - they are on the decline, but what I read was that the only things that beat the Autoclub 400 was PGA and the NCAA tournament.

Anyway - comparing UFC and WWE to Nascar (honestly, don't care about any of them) and using Hulk Hogan (how long ago was he a star? Now he's, what, an advertisement gimmick and failed reality personality?) to say prove that UFC and WWE is more popular? Doesn't wash. Deadspin said that the only thing that pushed UFC past the 300,000 PPV mark (which is pitiful) was the Roussi and McGregor fights, which were generally panned by people I know who watch the stuff.

But how does that apply to bowling? You said to popularize the players. I think your statement about Troup is good - how do we do so without it being forced?

But taking that to Golf - it's very popular but aside from Tiger, who is in the top ten/twenty? I used to be able to name several (and I don't golf or care about it) but now? If Tiger had not risen from the ranks of the dead, I wouldn't be able to name any of them.

Not criticizing - just discussing and trying to find some ideas. :)


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:46 pm Post Number: #24 Post
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boomer wrote:

True - they are on the decline, but what I read was that the only things that beat the Autoclub 400 was PGA and the NCAA tournament.

Anyway - comparing UFC and WWE to Nascar (honestly, don't care about any of them) and using Hulk Hogan (how long ago was he a star? Now he's, what, an advertisement gimmick and failed reality personality?) to say prove that UFC and WWE is more popular? Doesn't wash. Deadspin said that the only thing that pushed UFC past the 300,000 PPV mark (which is pitiful) was the Roussi and McGregor fights, which were generally panned by people I know who watch the stuff.

But how does that apply to bowling? You said to popularize the players. I think your statement about Troup is good - how do we do so without it being forced?

But taking that to Golf - it's very popular but aside from Tiger, who is in the top ten/twenty? I used to be able to name several (and I don't golf or care about it) but now? If Tiger had not risen from the ranks of the dead, I wouldn't be able to name any of them.

Not criticizing - just discussing and trying to find some ideas. :)


You named two people out of the UFC and they were the most popular ones. How did that happen? They got in the mainstream media. How many people can name one pro bowler?

Anyway, how to propel bowling into the main stream is by making it a product that draws attention and fix the current issues.

Issue one: Pro bowling is basically unknown.

Issue two: Excitement factor is limited by the strict control of strife controversy between the players.

Issue three: Cost to the average Joe to participate.

Now, I can see some of these are currently being addressed( new line of balls are cost effective, bowling branching out into the digital world). But what bowling needs is a visionary. Someone who can really make things happen, and have a true passion for the sport. I have many ideas, but who listens to anyone anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:37 am Post Number: #25 Post
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Quote:
Let me ask:

When is the most exciting time in baseball? Hockey? Golf? Basket ball? The fights/conflicts.


I totally disagree with that perspective.

The most exciting time in any sport revolves around success, a run in baseball, goals and great plays in hockey, an ideal shot in golf, any type of score in basketball and a blocked shot on the defensive end. Bowling is no different.

You're suggesting conflicts make sports more entertaining. I'm not seeing it. All conflicts do is raise the adrenaline level in spectators. Conflicts make the highlights on one night, maybe two. People talk about Tiger Woods all year long.


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:56 pm Post Number: #26 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:

I totally disagree with that perspective.

The most exciting time in any sport revolves around success, a run in baseball, goals and great plays in hockey, an ideal shot in golf, any type of score in basketball and a blocked shot on the defensive end. Bowling is no different.

You're suggesting conflicts make sports more entertaining. I'm not seeing it. All conflicts do is raise the adrenaline level in spectators. Conflicts make the highlights on one night, maybe two. People talk about Tiger Woods all year long.


So a 10 nothing baseball game, a blow-out in foot ball, and other high vs low scoring situations are exciting? From my experience, people usually get bored during that type of experience.

Being a baseball fan, there is an excitement in home runs, but the controversy is what really draws the fans and NON-FANS. Yanks vs Red Sox is popular not because of the success or scores, but the rivalry.

You mentioned Tiger. He in and of his self is controversial. His rise, fall, and come back is a story for the ages, not just because he is a good golfer, but because he overcame adversity and challenges of all kinds. In other words, he faced strife/conflict. He had a PPV recently with Phil Mckelson. Why? Because of the rivalry(conflict) between them.

There was a story about a guy who almost shot 900, he went home and was having a stroke after the match. By definition, he wasn't successful, but he was facing conflict/adversity and trying to overcome it and that's what made the story.

In one way, you are right that success is the most important IF you are a die hard fan. But what I am eluding to is the non-fan or casual fan. They are what is sorely missed in bowling.

I couldn't care less who won between EJ Tackett and Norm Duke. I am not a fan of either. But If there were conflict between them, on and/or off the bowling lane, I know that I would be watching the match closely.

Perhaps I am taking some liberties with some words and interchanging them, but I think the meaning is being understood.


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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:48 pm Post Number: #27 Post
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b3y0nd3r wrote:

So a 10 nothing baseball game, a blow-out in foot ball, and other high vs low scoring situations are exciting? From my experience, people usually get bored during that type of experience.

Being a baseball fan, there is an excitement in home runs, but the controversy is what really draws the fans and NON-FANS. Yanks vs Red Sox is popular not because of the success or scores, but the rivalry.

You mentioned Tiger. He in and of his self is controversial. His rise, fall, and come back is a story for the ages, not just because he is a good golfer, but because he overcame adversity and challenges of all kinds. In other words, he faced strife/conflict. He had a PPV recently with Phil Mckelson. Why? Because of the rivalry(conflict) between them.

There was a story about a guy who almost shot 900, he went home and was having a stroke after the match. By definition, he wasn't successful, but he was facing conflict/adversity and trying to overcome it and that's what made the story.

In one way, you are right that success is the most important IF you are a die hard fan. But what I am eluding to is the non-fan or casual fan. They are what is sorely missed in bowling.

I couldn't care less who won between EJ Tackett and Norm Duke. I am not a fan of either. But If there were conflict between them, on and/or off the bowling lane, I know that I would be watching the match closely.

Perhaps I am taking some liberties with some words and interchanging them, but I think the meaning is being understood.

I can see your point somewhat, but no matter what sport I watch it is to see people perform in a way that I'm not capable of. I don't really care if there's bad blood or conflict between the competitors in the least. If anything, I'll root against a person because I don't like them.

That said, I am completely different when it comes to your position on EJ vs Norm. To me that is extremely interesting because it's one of those things that we rarely get to see. A top player from an older generation going against a top player of the new generation. This is one of the few sports where you can ever see that because of the longevity of career those who participate can have.

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 Post subject: Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.
 Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:47 pm Post Number: #28 Post
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nwohbowler wrote:
I can see your point somewhat, but no matter what sport I watch it is to see people perform in a way that I'm not capable of. I don't really care if there's bad blood or conflict between the competitors in the least. If anything, I'll root against a person because I don't like them.

That said, I am completely different when it comes to your position on EJ vs Norm. To me that is extremely interesting because it's one of those things that we rarely get to see. A top player from an older generation going against a top player of the new generation. This is one of the few sports where you can ever see that because of the longevity of career those who participate can have.


I didn't say the match had no value. Just saying I have little vested interest in watching it.


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