PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

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PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by markkuhn » April 16th, 2019, 12:39 am

What is up with all the chanting and shouting while the guys are setting up and during the approach?
Yeah, when the ball touches the lane, scream your head off, that's fine.
But during the approach?
It's like the PBA's version of a Mad Max movie.
I watched two frames and turned it off. Looking forward to the start of the 2019 PWBA season.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by 44boyd » April 16th, 2019, 1:04 am

Every time they’re in Portland they do it, think it’s like 5 years in a row now. I think it’s losing it’s luster. I can’t believe the biggest paid event this year is taped delayed.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by kajmk » April 16th, 2019, 2:37 am

44boyd wrote:Every time they’re in Portland they do it, think it’s like 5 years in a row now. I think it’s losing it’s luster. I can’t believe the biggest paid event this year is taped delayed.
A reflection of the status of the sport of bowling. :|

Post subject: The most important issue facing the bowling industry today Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:42 am

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by JimH » April 16th, 2019, 12:28 pm

The lack of consideration for others is not confineed to PBA events. I have seen it and heard it on radio and TV discussion programs, Everyone on the 'panel' seems to believe their opinion must be heard over all other speakers. As a result several people speak at the same time. I turn the program off. It seems to be aa problem with society. Some programs have effective moderators who are able to keep manners on the panelists.

If this happens in Portland perhaps the MC should remind the audience to keep quiet.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by nwohbowler » April 16th, 2019, 12:38 pm

JimH wrote:The lack of consideration for others is not confineed to PBA events. I have seen it and heard it on radio and TV discussion programs, Everyone on the 'panel' seems to believe their opinion must be heard over all other speakers. As a result several people speak at the same time. I turn the program off. It seems to be aa problem with society. Some programs have effective moderators who are able to keep manners on the panelists.

If this happens in Portland perhaps the MC should remind the audience to keep quiet.
I tend to just watch bowling with the sound off. Really it's not a sport that requires a play by play announcer and the commentators rarely say anything of substance.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by spmcgivern » April 16th, 2019, 1:26 pm

The PBA experimented with yelling during the approach during the 90s I believe. Needless to say it was short lived.

I understand the desire to bring something different to the PBA League shows. I would rather see everyone mic'ed up and talking trash than for the crowd to yell during the approach. Next thing you know they will hand out plastic water bottles to everyone in the crowd.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by b3y0nd3r » April 16th, 2019, 1:55 pm

At first, I felt the same way. The shouting is too much. Then I thought about it at practice.

As I got up on the approach, the little kid in the lane next to me stood right in front of me and the parents didn't care. The other side had a bunch of wild people shouting for any reason you can think of. I was so angry, but I thought, "If I can bowl well with these conditions, then during league conditions nothing would bother me".

So perhaps that's it. The absolute silence thing is nice, but I think is an unreal expectation these days. As athletes, it's something we need to overcome.

But why are they allowing it? They are trying to breath life into a sport which is struggling. But this is a topic for another thread.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by nwohbowler » April 16th, 2019, 2:05 pm

b3y0nd3r wrote:At first, I felt the same way. The shouting is too much. Then I thought about it at practice.

As I got up on the approach, the little kid in the lane next to me stood right in front of me and the parents didn't care. The other side had a bunch of wild people shouting for any reason you can think of. I was so angry, but I thought, "If I can bowl well with these conditions, then during league conditions nothing would bother me".

So perhaps that's it. The absolute silence thing is nice, but I think is an unreal expectation these days. As athletes, it's something we need to overcome.

But why are they allowing it? They are trying to breath life into a sport which is struggling. But this is a topic for another thread.
When I was young, one of the guys that ran the desk at the alley I worked used to tell me something similar. Basically he said to learn to ignore distractions. He would stomp on the approach, clap his hands, yell my name, etc when I was bowling to reinforce that. It got to the point where I and several other of the other guys I bowled with could all walk up and throw the ball at the same time without it affecting us. I'm still pretty resilient to distractions to this day. Nothing was more annoying to me than when I bowled league and people would get upset if you didn't give them 2 and 3 lanes courtesy.
That said, I'm not sure how a rowdy and raucous crowd is supposed to make bowling more entertaining. People watch sports for the entertainment of watching pinnacle athletes perform not for the crowd.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by kajmk » April 16th, 2019, 4:00 pm

There was a write up in a bowling magazine, I think it was Bowling digest George Pappas PBA bowler had a local marching band, perform and March up and down the adjoining lanes while proceeded to post 220+ scores.


Since I mentioned him, for the curious or nostalgic -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pappas_(bowler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

https://www.gastongazette.com/news/2018 ... wling-life" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I guess George can still bowl, also still has hair and a new hair style.
He had a very recognizable foul line pose.


[youtube][/youtube]


[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by 44boyd » April 16th, 2019, 4:08 pm

I think the old alley before the renovations made it nostalgic for the PBA league, when there is really nothing on the line. But with the players Championship on the line, it doesn’t need a Happy Gilmore feel to make it exciting.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by b3y0nd3r » April 16th, 2019, 6:02 pm

44boyd wrote:I think the old alley before the renovations made it nostalgic for the PBA league, when there is really nothing on the line. But with the players Championship on the line, it doesn’t need a Happy Gilmore feel to make it exciting.
I agree! However, the PBA doesn't feel that way. They are trying their best to make it as crazy as possible. It is the state of the game. They are doing it all wrong. Believe it or not, bowling is on the cusp of becoming popular again it needs the right kind of push, however it would cost money.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by 44boyd » April 16th, 2019, 8:04 pm

Well that’s the thing, the crowd at the old place were actually funny and added to the match when Pete or someone would talk trash. These crowds, maybe same people just older, just dress crazy and yell a name is not near as crazy or even entertaining like the first events. And it’s like only 50 people in the crowd.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by stevespo » April 17th, 2019, 8:38 pm

Having just spent the day up in Portland to watch the playoffs, I'd have to say that TV doesn't really do it justice. The costumes, the yelling - yes, it's not traditional. It's silly, fun and entertaining! Some of the chants and nicknames are pretty clever and the players do enjoy it.

Those are some serious die hard bowling fans - whose leagues have waiting lists, they pay their lineage for the year UP FRONT, and they don't compete for prize money. They want a banner on the wall.

I spoke to many locals, and they all said the same thing - it's the greatest league they've ever been a part of. The house shot is a PBA sport pattern. The management, the mechanic, the employees - are all passionate about bowling. You may not like the TV format, but you can't dispute the energy and love they have for the sport.

When the PBA players are interviewed, they all say the same thing. It's their favorite event. They all look forward to Portland. I don't think they're lying. When you walk into the bar and see Barnes, Duke, Malott, Barrett, Page, etc - all laughing, joking with fans and having a good time - I think it's great for bowling.

It's not a format I'd like to see for every event, but it's a good format for a few shows. It's a change of pace. When it runs it's course, the PBA will move on and try something new. IMO, it's better than being stagnant.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by deanchamp » April 18th, 2019, 1:11 am

If nothing changes, then nothing changes. This event isn't for a title, so it's an opportunity to try something different. Do I like it? Not particularly, but if it gets a new generation of sports fans watching bowling again and helping to keep the sport relevant, then it's worth experimenting with.

The PBA and Fox would be well aware of the ratings and what is drawing a TV audience and what isn't, and it's naive to think otherwise.

If the sport isn't a product for TV, then it won't get any exposure beyond die hard bowlers and fans watching Flo Bowling (which I've unsubscribed to, but that's another story), and it will die a slow death over time.

In Australia, AFL footy has become all about getting big TV deals each few years, but the trade off is that it has to become like a reality TV show. This is the way of the world if the players want bigger pay packets each year.

If the young bowlers want to have careers as professionals, then I think they'll be willing to do whatever it takes to raise the profile of the sport.

A great scene from The League of Ordinary Gentleman:

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by kajmk » April 18th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Dean, a special thanks for including the link to the scene from "The League of Ordinary Gentlemen".

Like Maximus said, people have a better chance when they are united.

In Unity, there is strength, in division there is disarray and self destruction.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by guruU2 » April 18th, 2019, 7:07 pm

kajmk wrote:In Unity, there is strength, in division there is disarray and self destruction.
Only if it is organically developed and emerges from the ground up (with possible top level support and direction). If "unity" is forced from the top to the bottom than "unity" will disengage at the earliest opportunity. An inspiring vision from the top is a necessary aspect for real authentic unity not marketing slogans that I heard on the video. With an inspiring vision that can organically generate authentic unity then diversity can be a tool to strengthen that unity. Respect for the game will generate authentic long serving interest in the sport. Fun and games atmosphere will generate only a short lived interest. Something current "leadership" does not, apparently, understand. My 2 cents for what it is worth.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by kajmk » April 19th, 2019, 4:32 pm

guruU2 wrote:
Only if it is organically developed and emerges from the ground up (with possible top level support and direction). If "unity" is forced from the top to the bottom than "unity" will disengage at the earliest opportunity. An inspiring vision from the top is a necessary aspect for real authentic unity not marketing slogans that I heard on the video. With an inspiring vision that can organically generate authentic unity then diversity can be a tool to strengthen that unity. Respect for the game will generate authentic long serving interest in the sport. Fun and games atmosphere will generate only a short lived interest. Something current "leadership" does not, apparently, understand. My 2 cents for what it is worth.
Perhaps the inertia is insufficient motivation by said leadership?

Anyone -
What entities comprise leadership and how would you weight their influence and grade their performance?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so

There should be a rule of war saying you have to see someone up close and get to know 'em before it's ok to shoot 'em

Empathize

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by guruU2 » April 20th, 2019, 4:30 am

kajmk wrote:What entities comprise leadership and how would you weight their influence and grade their performance?
One aspect of authentic "leadership" is the ability to inspire positive action. Do any of our "leaders" of the alphabet organizations inspire or do they do the short term expediate action. I give Tom Clark for, maybe, saving the PBA but does he inspire us to follow him to the potential greatness the PBA has in developing the organization-in-and-of-itself and thus leading bowling-the-institution out of its status of being a third rate sport? The other "leaders", as far my perspective, do not even rate a comment. Just remember, bowling-the-institution's key numbers have all dropped 20 to 80% while the population of the United States has risen 24% since 1983 (the benchmark year of the highest number of sanction bowlers for a given year). Kegel's John Davis and Dick Weber could inspire as the had a grand vision for the sport that went well beyond the immediate status. What bowling needs is (are) an individual(s) who can communicate that vision that goes beyond their immediate self serving interest.
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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by TomaHawk » April 21st, 2019, 12:34 am

This is not the first go-around with the noise factor, the PBA tried it once before. It's just the PBA grasping for straws, as in, what can we do to make bowling more interesting. Watching bowling is boring. It is comparable to golf. Watching NASCAR vehicles go around and around is boring too. Both golf and NASCAR have a strong core of viewers. The people in charge of the bowling world believe it is better suited to compare itself to the NASCAR example rather than the seemingly sophisticated product that golf exhibits.

Personally, it's difficult to envision the co-relation between NASCAR and bowling, but evidently, having some sort of promotional model is better than nothing. Or, is it? People can be influenced by what they see. The product that bowling is promoting is only serving to lower it's rank among athletic endeavors. Now, more than ever, we are being pummeled by the visualization of what I refer to as the King Pin factor.

Bowling cannot be taken seriously any more.

Maybe the powers that be, know more than we think. Maybe they're not getting the credit they deserve. Maybe they have done some sort of an extensive behavioral study on the general bowling population. Maybe they know the type of person who represents the largest portion of the viewing audience. That's a lot of maybes. It would be fair to say, there are a lot more maybes that have gone unanswered.

Bowling has decided to take the easy way out. After all, it is much easier to appeal to basic human emotion than to garner the attention of a sophisticated audience. Compare it to Bud Lite and Mercedes. Everyone can drink a Bud, not just anyone will buy a Mercedes.

Once upon a time, professional bowling might have had the type of viewership that would have been inclined to buy a Mercedes. It seems, those days can not be resurrected. It's not in the straw pile bowling is drawing from.

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Re: PBA Playoffs. HATE the shouting.

Post by b3y0nd3r » April 22nd, 2019, 1:57 pm

TomaHawk wrote:This is not the first go-around with the noise factor, the PBA tried it once before. It's just the PBA grasping for straws, as in, what can we do to make bowling more interesting. Watching bowling is boring. It is comparable to golf. Watching NASCAR vehicles go around and around is boring too. Both golf and NASCAR have a strong core of viewers. The people in charge of the bowling world believe it is better suited to compare itself to the NASCAR example rather than the seemingly sophisticated product that golf exhibits.

Personally, it's difficult to envision the co-relation between NASCAR and bowling, but evidently, having some sort of promotional model is better than nothing. Or, is it? People can be influenced by what they see. The product that bowling is promoting is only serving to lower it's rank among athletic endeavors. Now, more than ever, we are being pummeled by the visualization of what I refer to as the King Pin factor.

Bowling cannot be taken seriously any more.

Maybe the powers that be, know more than we think. Maybe they're not getting the credit they deserve. Maybe they have done some sort of an extensive behavioral study on the general bowling population. Maybe they know the type of person who represents the largest portion of the viewing audience. That's a lot of maybes. It would be fair to say, there are a lot more maybes that have gone unanswered.

Bowling has decided to take the easy way out. After all, it is much easier to appeal to basic human emotion than to garner the attention of a sophisticated audience. Compare it to Bud Lite and Mercedes. Everyone can drink a Bud, not just anyone will buy a Mercedes.

Once upon a time, professional bowling might have had the type of viewership that would have been inclined to buy a Mercedes. It seems, those days can not be resurrected. It's not in the straw pile bowling is drawing from.
Let me ask:

When is the most exciting time in baseball? Hockey? Golf? Basket ball? The fights/conflicts.

What's one of the hottest still growing competitions out there? WEE/UFC.

Unfortunately, strife, conflict, and physical contact amplifies the enjoyment factor of sports. Look at the WWE, a scripted and almost juvenile type of entertainment and you have adults who love it more than kids. Gone are the days of gentlemen competition because, believe it or not, we all know that someone wants to win and winning can sometimes compromise your values.

So where does that leave bowling? Well the Belmo/Rash feud kind of amped things up years ago. When Pete said his famous line, that really catapulted him to "bad boy" status. I think the key would be to let these guys just go at it. Give them mike time and let them say whats on their mind. Trash talking IS part of any game. Also, we need to get to know the bowlers. Look at Brad and Kyle. After a few of their youtube vids, I know more about them than Rhino Page. I am afraid to say this, but bowling needs to become a spectacle and change with the times. Better to be a spectacle, than a ghost.

Mo said "bowling needs heros", well, it needs villains too then. Because you can't have one without the other.

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