Question on lateral pitch on fingers

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vicsmyth
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Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by vicsmyth » March 13th, 2019, 3:32 pm

My middle finger takes most of the weight of the ball, my guess is 75%. I've read that for most bowlers it's the ring finger that takes 75% of the weight of the ball (or lift?) I have 5/16" left on my middle finger, 7/16" right on my ring finger (5/16" bridge). I have 1/8" reverse on both fingers. I've recently started using a fake vacu grip on my middle finger, beveling out the pad part of the grip, in essence giving me 1/8" less span and 1/8" more reverse. I've also gone to oval lifts rather than power lifts. I use power lifts on the ring finger. This really helped with my middle finger pain.

Is there anything else that I can do with lateral pitches to take some of the weight off my middle finger? Shall I go back to 3/8" lateral on each? More lateral (1/2" each) with decreased bridge? More later on middle finger, less on ring finger?

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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by kart300 » March 24th, 2019, 12:09 am

The simple answer is to find someone who can measure your hand well

Most likely answer is more reverse in both fingers. This may affect the laterals as well.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by guruU2 » March 24th, 2019, 5:47 am

kart300 wrote:The simple answer is to find someone who can measure your hand well

Most likely answer is more reverse in both fingers
Without a through hand exam by an experienced pro shop professional(s) any advise here is hypothetical but given the data furnished, kart300 advice is a good starting point.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by kajmk » March 24th, 2019, 4:13 pm

guruU2 wrote:
Without a through hand exam by an experienced pro shop professional(s) any advise here is hypothetical but given the data furnished, kart300 advice is a good starting point.
Over the years, I've noted some significant differences in professional ball drillers, enough to realize there is much more to it than meets the eye.
(Whats a better term?)
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by vicsmyth » March 25th, 2019, 3:11 pm

Thank-you for your responses. I have not had a lot of luck with PSOs in my area, so I learned to drill my own balls. So I have to find my own solutions by trial and error (based on suggestions) to ease the pain in my middle finger.

I ended up going with a 1/8" bridge, 7/16" lateral on both fingers, 0" forward on ring finger using a Turbo power lift (adds forward pitch), 1/8" reverse on middle finger with a power oval. In addition on the middle finger I have an 1/8" bevel on the pad part 1/2" deep with gives me a fake vacu insert, 1/8" less span and 1/8" more reverse. The 1/8" bridge allows me to tape my middle and ring finger together, putting a small spacer made of hard foam rubber between them. Not only is the finger pain gone but I seem to be a little more accurate not losing the ball off my hand as much, and have increased my rev rate a bit and am more consistent in hitting the ball.

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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by vicsmyth » March 26th, 2019, 12:17 am

Correction, 9/16" lateral on both fingers.

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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by kart300 » April 13th, 2019, 11:30 pm

Just to give you a little more information

Bill Taylor had a starting point for finger pitches of 0 and 5/8.

Ron Hoppe will start your finger pitches with 1/2 to 3/4 REVERSE.

Immerse yourself in the advices given on this forum and best of luck.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by fufu » May 7th, 2019, 6:05 pm

kart300 wrote:
Ron Hoppe will start your finger pitches with 1/2 to 3/4 REVERSE.

Immerse yourself in the advices given on this forum and best of luck.
I’ve yet to see anyone with any significant rev rate using 1/2 to 3/4 rev in the fingers. I’m in his neck of the woods and drilled a couple of his fits for people after they’ve gone to see him. One thing is for certain they aren’t hitting the ball. I think for your average player that grabs every other shot then it works great, but many others the ball is off their hand so quick they can’t grab but nor can they energize it.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by elgavachon » May 8th, 2019, 5:09 am

fufu wrote:
I’ve yet to see anyone with any significant rev rate using 1/2 to 3/4 rev in the fingers. I’m in his neck of the woods and drilled a couple of his fits for people after they’ve gone to see him. One thing is for certain they aren’t hitting the ball. I think for your average player that grabs every other shot then it works great, but many others the ball is off their hand so quick they can’t grab but nor can they energize it.
I am putting 1" reverse on all the no thumbers. Most of Joe Slowinski's students are using a lot of reverse also. That is how he teaches it if you purchase his instructions in his Anatomical Drilling Technique.

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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by VLe » May 8th, 2019, 2:25 pm

fufu wrote:I’ve yet to see anyone with any significant rev rate using 1/2 to 3/4 rev in the fingers. I’m in his neck of the woods and drilled a couple of his fits for people after they’ve gone to see him. One thing is for certain they aren’t hitting the ball. I think for your average player that grabs every other shot then it works great, but many others the ball is off their hand so quick they can’t grab but nor can they energize it.
I think that there is more variables than that in the modern bowling release. Release efficiency is all about relaxing the muscles at correct timing. Basically there is three aspects in ball rotation speed: the more bowler can get fingers under the ball before release, the more bowler can get fingers above the ball at the end of release and the faster this this transportation is made is the equal sum of how much rotation comes to the ball. Rotation speed is V=S/t, where S=arc lenght.

By adding reverse on fingers, you can (in theory) add more span and also get the palm closer to the ball which helps a player to play more "under the ball" before release. This is becoming more of a "standard" for no-thumbers at least. In modern release the ball should be rolled to the lane - not pushed, not thrown. To make this modern style release efficient, the ball must have enough swing (velocity) and most importantly; correct timing. Typically the average player doesn't have either of these on point.

My opinion for the matter is that when done technically correctly, it is better to have a bit more reverse on fingers than it was recommended in the past and it has only positive effects on the release. Of course too much is too much. Modern style is actually more about creating more speed to the ball by most efficient (biomechanical) way, which also adds rev's naturally.

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As an answer to the original post. I think that the first thing you should check is the span especially on the ring finger.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by fufu » May 8th, 2019, 2:28 pm

VLe wrote:
I think that there is more variables than that in the modern bowling release. Release efficiency is all about relaxing the muscles at correct timing. Basically there is three aspects in ball rotation speed: the more bowler can get fingers under the ball before release, the more bowler can get fingers above the ball at the end of release and the faster this this transportation is made is the equal sum of how much rotation comes to the ball. Rotation speed is V=S/t, where S=arc lenght.

By adding reverse on fingers, you can (in theory) add more span and also get the palm closer to the ball which helps a player to play more "under the ball" before release. This is becoming more of a "standard" for no-thumbers at least. In modern release the ball should be rolled to the lane - not pushed, not thrown. To make this modern style release efficient, the ball must have enough swing (velocity) and most importantly; correct timing. Typically the average player doesn't have either of these on point.

My opinion for the matter is that when done technically correctly, it is better to have a bit more reverse on fingers than it was recommended in the past and it has only positive effects on the release. Of course too much is too much. Modern style is actually more about creating more speed to the ball by efficient way, which also adds rev's naturally.

Image

As an answer to the original post. I think that the first thing you should check is the span especially on the ring finger.
All around good points. But I see it more as a dynamic fit for an already good player then a one size fits all approach.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by VLe » May 8th, 2019, 2:43 pm

fufu wrote:All around good points. But I see it more as a dynamic fit for an already good player then a one size fits all approach.
Exactly. Some players may require totally different modifications to the grip that is suggested generally. Bowling should not hurt. There is also too many bowler's out there complaining and focusing more on the grip and can't see the bigger picture in where the problem is actually at the technique itself. For too many years I was one of those too. Even a good fit can feel horrible and cause pain etc. if there is major problems on the delivery.

This became a little offtopic for the matter. My point is that when there is problems with the grip, the actual delivery should also be checked at the same time to avoid confusions and false conclusions. Best method is to go see a professional PSO who can also give some coaching.
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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by TonyPR » May 8th, 2019, 9:40 pm

I can rev the ball quite a bit two handed without inserting finges by releasing through the ball and not around it, of course I don’t bowl like this but just to say it’s all about technique. For laterals I like to draw a CLT and pitch them 7/16 both in that reference and adjust for crooked fingers.

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Re: Question on lateral pitch on fingers

Post by vicsmyth » May 11th, 2019, 9:27 pm

I ended up making a splint similar to Steel Fingers except that it binds my two fingers together with a spacer in the middle so that they work as one. Pain is gone and even increased my rev rate a bit. Though I do get a lot of weird looks from other bowlers as in, "What the hell does he have on his hand?"

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