USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunction

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
krava
Probation
Probation
Posts: 1167
Joined: March 18th, 2016, 12:43 am
Preferred Company: hammer

USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunction

Post by krava »

I have no idea how to word it or even search for it.

short version: What happens if you throw the ball see pins standing and turn your back immediately before the pin setter comes down and all of a sudden you are given a strike and no one else sees what happened either? (need to go back to English class big long run on sentence I know)

2nd simple question: What happens if after several frames someone comes back or after you shoot 300, someone says they say what happened in the 1st frame? Can it be refuted after so many frames bowled?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Long version: Thursday was in league and threw the ball and the ball all of a sudden hit a "dead zone" and died on me with no warning and left the 4 8. I knew I threw the ball correctly and everything but was like "what the hell happened, am I sure I did everything right". The next frame, different lane, threw the same shot got the exact same result and saw the ball do the exact same thing and left the 4 8 again. I turned my back as soon as I saw the pins standing and was pissed that I didn't move like I thought I should have done. I look back and saw a full rack and looked up and was given a X. I turned my back quick and there could have been a chance that something did knock those 2 over but I would have bet $100 that it didn't. I went around and asked people on the opposite team and no one saw it. We were on a lane that had a big gap on the left side so there wasn't a team to the left of us. I looked over on the team right of them and they wasn't paying attention either. My teammate told me to keep it so I kept it since I wasn't 100% positive that nothing didn't hit it. My worry was that game could have been a 300 and I didn't want someone coming back trying to refute it. I was using the ripped solid and was dead in the pocket the entire 1st 2 games up until that ball decided to die (hit the dried out dead zone and rolled out) . I didn't even move 1/2 a board.

The next shot, I downgraded to a hustle with the pin down and moved 2 boards right and going straight up the boards on the next shot. (Monday I did that and got 10/12 strikes, I missed once right and once left in that game.) I threw the ball straight up 10 and the ball didn't do anything at the end and ended up with a 6 count and think I left the bucket. I believe those excessive amount of plastic balls produced carry down and interfered with that. (no plastic shot on Monday). Then the next shot I ended up moving 2 boards left of where I was with the ripped (with a radical conspiracy) and trying to project the ball right aka like 13 board at the arrows out to 7 or 8 at the breakpoint and back in but still have a lot of work to do to get that consistent.
User avatar
seventen7ten
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: October 23rd, 2016, 4:53 am
THS Average: 206
Positive Axis Point: 3.5" Right 1" Up
Axis Tilt: 36
Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Alpha Crux
Medium Oil Ball: Roto Grip Hustle Ink
Light Oil Ball: Motiv Tribal & Brunswick Axis
Preferred Company: Storm
Location: Chicago-Northwest Suburbs

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by seventen7ten »

USBC RULE 10 might cover the situation you are describing:
  • Rule 10 – Provisional Ball
    A provisional ball or frame shall be bowled when a protest involving a foul, legal pinfall or a dead ball is made and cannot be resolved by the two team captains or a tournament official.
    The following procedures apply when a dispute occurs:
    a. For the first ball of any frame, or after the second ball in the 10th frame if the first ball was a strike:
    1. Foul: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at a full setup of pins.
    2. Illegal Pinfall: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl one provisional ball at the same setup which would have remained standing had the disputed pin(s) not have fallen.
    3. Dead Ball: The player shall complete the frame and then bowl a complete provisional frame.
    b. On a spare attempt or the third ball of the 10th frame:
    1. Foul and Illegal Pinfall: No provisional ball is necessary.
    2. Dead Ball: A provisional ball shall be bowled at the same setup which was standing when the disputed ball was bowled.
    The score sheet and a record of both scores for the frame in which the provisional delivery was made shall be kept. The protest must be referred to the league board of directors or tournament management for a decision. If they are unable to make a decision, the local association or USBC Headquarters/Rules can be asked for a decision on submission of the facts relating to the protest.
I think you should check this out with the Rules people at the USBC to be sure.
JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by JohnP »

The camera on some of the scoring systems saves a shot of the pin deck as the rack is preparing to reset. Check at the desk and ask if they can pull it up for view. -- John
boomer
Member
Member
Posts: 305
Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
THS Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
Speed: 13.8 at pindeck
Rev Rate: 230
Preferred Company: Storm (it smells pretty)

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by boomer »

But the main thing is, there, is the word "dispute" - if nobody disputes, then no problem.

We had that happen last night. Couple of times, the 8 fell over JUUUUUUST before the rack came down. I mean JUUUUST before. Nobody saw what hit it.

Another time the rack DID knock over the 8 and we had to replace it and have the guy shoot his spare.

Just another reason why to NEVER turn your back on those pins. They do craaaaazy things! LOL
Ballsinthegutter
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: March 10th, 2019, 4:29 am
THS Average: 170
Speed: 16.5 at Camera
Heavy Oil Ball: Columbia Swerve (Sanded)
Medium Oil Ball: Hammer Gauntlet
Light Oil Ball: Pyramid Path Rising
Preferred Company: Hammer
Location: Sunbury, PA

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by Ballsinthegutter »

Not quite the same situation but I have a similar question.

If a pin slides off location during the first ball to the point where the pinsetter can't pick up the pins to drop the rake, is the out of place pin supposed to be placed back in its original spot, or left where it is ?

I had to pre-bowl Sunday night for my Monday league, not unusual as I have been having scheduling changes a lot this year forcing me to bowl ahead quite frequently...
At one point I left the 5-9, except the 5 pin slid towards the 9 and stopped half way, the pin setter stopped dead on top of the 5 pin forcing the guy to run down to get it going again. Now on a league night if this happens (in any of the 3 different houses I bowl in) normally they will ask where the pin came from move it into place and cycle the pin setter. In this instance he just manually raised the setter and went about his business. Now not that I'm complaining because the two pins being closer together made it an easier spare ( not that a 5-9 is very tough), but if that would have happened during actual league play, there would have been an uproar about this. So again my question is: should the pin have been placed back on the 5 spot, or is leaving it where it was the proper thing?
"This aggression will not stand...Man"
~The Dude

Sometimes, even on the loudest nights, I swear I can hear the 10 pin laughing at me
MWhite
Member
Member
Posts: 457
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 11:29 pm
Location: Riverside Ca

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by MWhite »

Ballsinthegutter wrote:Not quite the same situation but I have a similar question.

If a pin slides off location during the first ball to the point where the pinsetter can't pick up the pins to drop the rake, is the out of place pin supposed to be placed back in its original spot, or left where it is ?

I had to pre-bowl Sunday night for my Monday league, not unusual as I have been having scheduling changes a lot this year forcing me to bowl ahead quite frequently...
At one point I left the 5-9, except the 5 pin slid towards the 9 and stopped half way, the pin setter stopped dead on top of the 5 pin forcing the guy to run down to get it going again. Now on a league night if this happens (in any of the 3 different houses I bowl in) normally they will ask where the pin came from move it into place and cycle the pin setter. In this instance he just manually raised the setter and went about his business. Now not that I'm complaining because the two pins being closer together made it an easier spare ( not that a 5-9 is very tough), but if that would have happened during actual league play, there would have been an uproar about this. So again my question is: should the pin have been placed back on the 5 spot, or is leaving it where it was the proper thing?
The rule is if the pin is pushed off spot, it stays where it is. If however, the pin falls after the machine contacts it, it must be re-spot in it's original position i.e. where supposed to be before the first ball was thrown.

That includes the machine knocking it over on the way down to pick it up, as well as when the pins are placed back down for the second shot, it tips over.

Usually when the machine picks up a pin it's stable, but occasionally due to things like worn scissor pads, the pin just loosely dangles and is set back down with a tilt, and might fall.
MWhite
Member
Member
Posts: 457
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 11:29 pm
Location: Riverside Ca

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by MWhite »

JohnP wrote:The camera on some of the scoring systems saves a shot of the pin deck as the rack is preparing to reset. Check at the desk and ask if they can pull it up for view. -- John
USBC rule is the machine touching the pin. Unless the camera is synchronized with the machine, and takes the picture just as the bottom of the machine reach the distance of the pin deck equal to the height of the pin, the camera potentially isn't giving a valid picture to be considered evidence.

Since automatic scoring systems are pretty much everywhere, USBC could make the rule if an automatic scoring system is used, the camera will take a picture at some specific time after detecting the ball has been thrown. That picture would have the final say, so if a pin happen to fall after the camera, but before the machine touched it, it still gets re-spot.

The benefit would be consistency across bowling centers.

Some centers have a notoriously large delay before picking up the pins. Which potentially increases scores.
Pinbuster
Member
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: June 26th, 2009, 12:02 pm

Re: USBC rules regarding "a strike not earned" or malfunctio

Post by Pinbuster »

But not scorers use cameras, the latest Brunswick machines use the pin setter sensing what pins it picks up.

We have had this happen a few times both to our team and the other teams bowlers.

If no one sees it we have pretty much decided to let the what automatic scorer recorded stand.

I've seen pins fall straight back that looked forever like they were standing. But I always watch until the pinsetter comes down.
Post Reply