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 Post subject: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:19 am Post Number: #1 Post
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I don't know how many people get this text or email each month. In this months issue, it talks about how keeping the pins low and not making alot of noise when striking is alot better then a Loud thunder strike sound with pins standing up going places.

She doesn't explain much about it unless I missed parts some how. I can understand keeping pins low will give more of the pin in contact with other pins that could be possibly knocked over while a harder hit the pins stay up and less of the pin could be in contact with the others.

I have googled "how to keep bowling pins low" and found nothing. I also searched it in the bowling chat search and didn't see anything directly show up. My only idea would be that the ball would hit the pins in such a way that the spin of the ball starts the pins spinning or something.

I always thought a "thunderstrike" was the best strike you could get but I guess I am wrong with that thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:15 am Post Number: #2 Post
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Gravity keeps the pins low. The end.

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 am Post Number: #3 Post
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Yes Mo’s sentiments exactly. I still wonder though if a skidding ball hitting the pocket keeps the pins low as a rolling ball seems to.

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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deanchamp wrote:
Yes Mo’s sentiments exactly. I still wonder though if a skidding ball hitting the pocket keeps the pins low as a rolling ball seems to.


A case of the terrible 2's (too much or too little)
Cannon ball vs. Pinball ...

Not espousing this style, just another arrow in the quiver.
As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. This style was born out of necessity

Asian spinner, light balls, extreme tilt, no roll, little angle of entry.


Tom Kouros
"The strength of the full-spinner is not so much the deflection factor, but it's ultimate or total spin, which causes pins hit to move off horizontally ..."
He goes on to cite pros and cons and stating the style does have significant limitations.

One could conduct experiments using a ball and a pin on an approach and induce motion on the ball and observe the effect on pins, though using a THROWBOT would be better.

We have round objects hitting an object that is curved. The point of contact is tiny.

We all have seen pins fly over other pins.

Be that as it may, this would make a nice study ...

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:03 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Wow, I wish my bowling league was more like that lol


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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:46 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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Well i dont know what "gravity keeps the pin low" offers to this discussion. Gravity is constant, but not all kinds of hits keep pins low, so....

The Helicopter style of Asians would indeed be a nice study.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:23 pm Post Number: #7 Post
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TheJesus wrote:
Well i dont know what "gravity keeps the pin low" offers to this discussion. Gravity is constant, but not all kinds of hits keep pins low, so....

The Helicopter style of Asians would indeed be a nice study.


The center of gravity on the ball and the pins are always the same and the impact point always very similar accounting for small variances in ball diameter.

What else is there to change how the pins fly upward or downward?
Pin deck pitch?

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:11 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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Here's what Suzie said in "Whoever Finds It First, Wins!":

“Keeping the Pins Low

I'm sure you've heard that you need to keep the pins low. Although it can be great fun to have one of those strikes that sound like thunder, they can be misleading. Loud strikes often mean the pins are flying around upright.

A pin is 4-¾ inches wide at its belly and 15 inches tall. I would much rather have that 15-inch broom laying down, searching the deck for anything still left standing. If the pin is flying around upright, I have less surface area smacking pins around. So, keeping the pins low means that I have the angle, speed, and rotation that create pin spin; that is, the pins spinning and falling over, moving around the deck knocking over stuff that dares to stand.

Some folks think that a noisy strike is better than one that leaves three or four pins lying on the deck. I would have to disagree. I don't much care about the noise, only the laying down part.”

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

The center of gravity on the ball and the pins are always the same and the impact point always very similar accounting for small variances in ball diameter.

What else is there to change how the pins fly upward or downward?
Pin deck pitch?

Lets think about this for a minute...
The Center of Gravity is not the geometrical center of the ball.

There could be instances where there is a considerable distance between the geometric center and Center of Gravity.
Lower Cg in a golf club yields higher trajectory on the ball.

Pin Center of Gravity 5 15/16” ( 5.781”) ... Max 5.937” .... Min 5.625”
Pin height at widest point is 4.5" up from bottom.
Ball geometrical center min 4.25"...... max 4.2975"

Physically the ball is going to get under the pin and create lift.

Spin and revolutions are going to have an effect on the pins direction similar to English on a cue ball hitting an object ball.

I believe forward roll will create a downward force to a pin. I have seen balls especially lighter weight ones try to roll over pins making the ball leave the pin deck upwards.

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:47 am Post Number: #10 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Lets think about this for a minute...
The Center of Gravity is not the geometrical center of the ball.

There could be instances where there is a considerable distance between the geometric center and Center of Gravity.
Lower Cg in a golf club yields higher trajectory on the ball.

Pin Center of Gravity 5 15/16” ( 5.781”) ... Max 5.937” .... Min 5.625”
Pin height at widest point is 4.5" up from bottom.
Ball geometrical center min 4.25"...... max 4.2975"

Physically the ball is going to get under the pin and create lift.

Spin and revolutions are going to have an effect on the pins direction similar to English on a cue ball hitting an object ball.

I believe forward roll will create a downward force to a pin. I have seen balls especially lighter weight ones try to roll over pins making the ball leave the pin deck upwards.


Very interesting! Never quite though of it that way.

Was thinking more along the lines of COR.

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 Post subject: Re: Suzie Minshew's Bowl-Gram Keeping pins low
 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:46 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Lets think about this for a minute...
The Center of Gravity is not the geometrical center of the ball.

There could be instances where there is a considerable distance between the geometric center and Center of Gravity.
Lower Cg in a golf club yields higher trajectory on the ball.

Pin Center of Gravity 5 15/16” ( 5.781”) ... Max 5.937” .... Min 5.625”
Pin height at widest point is 4.5" up from bottom.
Ball geometrical center min 4.25"...... max 4.2975"

Physically the ball is going to get under the pin and create lift.

Spin and revolutions are going to have an effect on the pins direction similar to English on a cue ball hitting an object ball.

I believe forward roll will create a downward force to a pin. I have seen balls especially lighter weight ones try to roll over pins making the ball leave the pin deck upwards.


Which is why higher tilt bowlers tend to get those "messy" strikes.
Higher tilt, to go with your cue ball analogy, would transfer a slight sideways motion to the pins. Since the pins are "spinning" off the spot, they have a greater chance of incidental contact with other pins compared to flying off the deck.
Once a pin exits the deck, it has a low chance of being helpful.

So, going back to the OP:
Strikes are better than non-strikes. Volume is irrelevant.
If you can get the pins to roll around on the deck, you have a better chance of getting a strike on a bad shot.
I believe you are on the right track, regarding spinning the pins.
As the excerpt from Glenn states, you get this by creating a certain angle, speed and rotation.
This comes from a consistent release (with axis tilt), and an appropriate arsenal for the conditions.
I've thrown plenty of thunderous 9-counts, and plenty of messy strikes. The former may sound better, but the latter looks better on the score card. There are no style points in bowling.
If you can get a "thunderstrike" every time, great, don't change anything.
"Keeping the pins low" helps with those off hits that would otherwise be non-strikes. It basically helps to create a bigger pocket.

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