lane machines

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
nyrevsmachine
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6
Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
THS Average: 220
Speed: 19 arrows
Rev Rate: 390
Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
Medium Oil Ball: freeze
Light Oil Ball: scout
Preferred Company: none

lane machines

Post by nyrevsmachine »

Do you think companies like Kegal are raping the bowling industry? Why does a lane machine cost 40 grand? If you think about it, it is really just a century machine that sprays the oil on and also cleans the lane w lane cleaner. A simple smart phone cpu could handle all functions and downloads. What are your thoughts?
User avatar
MeNoRevs
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 305
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 120
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
Preferred Company: I prefer them all
Location: Southern Maryland

Re: lane machines

Post by MeNoRevs »

nyrevsmachine wrote:Do you think companies like Kegal are raping the bowling industry? Why does a lane machine cost 40 grand? If you think about it, it is really just a century machine that sprays the oil on and also cleans the lane w lane cleaner. A simple smart phone cpu could handle all functions and downloads. What are your thoughts?
I think it clearly shows that you do not know much about the technology behind a lane machine. Have you ever been to one of their shows or looked under the hood of one of their lane machines?

If you think Kegel is raping the bowling industry, this is a perfect opportunity to jump in and undercut them and make millions. I am sure you can invent a lane machine that walks and needs no interaction with sensors with a snapdragon cpu.
nyrevsmachine
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6
Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
THS Average: 220
Speed: 19 arrows
Rev Rate: 390
Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
Medium Oil Ball: freeze
Light Oil Ball: scout
Preferred Company: none

Re: lane machines

Post by nyrevsmachine »

Actualy i understand quite clearly. I have owned 2 of these machines, and been to a kegal training course. They do not need to be this complex.
nyrevsmachine
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6
Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
THS Average: 220
Speed: 19 arrows
Rev Rate: 390
Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
Medium Oil Ball: freeze
Light Oil Ball: scout
Preferred Company: none

Re: lane machines

Post by nyrevsmachine »

Speaking as someone who has oiled thoisands of lanes with these machines....i can tell you that the maintanance and upkeep of these machines is very time consuming. If you really think you push a button and walk away you are mistaken. If you fart near one of these machines those sensors you speak of come out of adjustment. They dont need to be that complex.
User avatar
MeNoRevs
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 305
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 120
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
Preferred Company: I prefer them all
Location: Southern Maryland

Re: lane machines

Post by MeNoRevs »

nyrevsmachine wrote:Speaking as someone who has oiled thoisands of lanes with these machines....i can tell you that the maintanance and upkeep of these machines is very time consuming. If you really think you push a button and walk away you are mistaken. If you fart near one of these machines those sensors you speak of come out of adjustment. They dont need to be that complex.
Well then there is an open place in the market for you to take over. It sounds simple!
nyrevsmachine
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6
Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
THS Average: 220
Speed: 19 arrows
Rev Rate: 390
Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
Medium Oil Ball: freeze
Light Oil Ball: scout
Preferred Company: none

Re: lane machines

Post by nyrevsmachine »

You sound like a fool.i think we are done here.
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: lane machines

Post by MegaMav »

Warning issued to nyrevsmachine.
nyrevsmachine
Banned
Banned
Posts: 6
Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
THS Average: 220
Speed: 19 arrows
Rev Rate: 390
Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
Medium Oil Ball: freeze
Light Oil Ball: scout
Preferred Company: none

Re: lane machines

Post by nyrevsmachine »

Megamav....[CENSORED] off and die!!!!
Last edited by MegaMav on August 30th, 2018, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Cleaned up post. User banned. Wont make the sticky though, not a significant user.
boomer
Member
Member
Posts: 305
Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
THS Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
Speed: 13.8 at pindeck
Rev Rate: 230
Preferred Company: Storm (it smells pretty)

Re: lane machines

Post by boomer »

I'm in the tech industry (well, academia anyway, but I actually DO the tech around here, LOL) and I've wondered the same thing.

I know motors can be expensive, but steppers with that torque don't cost all that much when we're talking about 5 figures. . .

The spray tech either is or could be adapted from ink-jet tech, which has been around for . . . at least a decade or two and is cheap cheap cheap. For that width, I have a printer that has a 42" print-span so that part could be adapted.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I don't think the original poster was either (although he could have worded it less confrontationally) but. . . honestly, what advances have been made in lane machine tech lately? Aside from the completely remote ones (which, honestly, while quite cool, is pretty standard stuff these days), what really is inside these things that makes them cost, what was said? $40K? That's nearly as much as my Wrangler Unlimited Sahara or even a Mercedes (just for comparison).

Second - what options are out there? Is Brunswick still selling them? Is Kegel the only one left?
User avatar
MeNoRevs
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 305
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 120
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
Preferred Company: I prefer them all
Location: Southern Maryland

Re: lane machines

Post by MeNoRevs »

boomer wrote:I'm in the tech industry (well, academia anyway, but I actually DO the tech around here, LOL) and I've wondered the same thing.

I know motors can be expensive, but steppers with that torque don't cost all that much when we're talking about 5 figures. . .

The spray tech either is or could be adapted from ink-jet tech, which has been around for . . . at least a decade or two and is cheap cheap cheap. For that width, I have a printer that has a 42" print-span so that part could be adapted.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I don't think the original poster was either (although he could have worded it less confrontationally) but. . . honestly, what advances have been made in lane machine tech lately? Aside from the completely remote ones (which, honestly, while quite cool, is pretty standard stuff these days), what really is inside these things that makes them cost, what was said? $40K? That's nearly as much as my Wrangler Unlimited Sahara or even a Mercedes (just for comparison).

Second - what options are out there? Is Brunswick still selling them? Is Kegel the only one left?
Price is not always dictated on tooling and manufacturing parts. R&D also goes into the cost. I am sure a pretty penny went into creating the stepper motors to work with the sprayer, to work with the LCD screen that would need to be coded and tested. Kegel is also out there to make money. If it was overpriced to proprieties then no would buy it, and then they would have to reduce pricing, but most centers I have walked into, has one.

40k, imo is not expensive when your talking about a house that has decent linage. This machine will have to work twice a day for x amount of weeks, a lot of time with minimal downtime because there is no backup.

I am not sure how much the Brunswick Levy is, but if 40k is to much, you can always go with a model like an AMF Bullet or something similar.
boomer
Member
Member
Posts: 305
Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
THS Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
Speed: 13.8 at pindeck
Rev Rate: 230
Preferred Company: Storm (it smells pretty)

Re: lane machines

Post by boomer »

MeNoRevs wrote:
Price is not always dictated on tooling and manufacturing parts. R&D also goes into the cost. I am sure a pretty penny went into creating the stepper motors to work with the sprayer, to work with the LCD screen that would need to be coded and tested. Kegel is also out there to make money. If it was overpriced to proprieties then no would buy it, and then they would have to reduce pricing, but most centers I have walked into, has one.

40k, imo is not expensive when your talking about a house that has decent linage. This machine will have to work twice a day for x amount of weeks, a lot of time with minimal downtime because there is no backup.

I am not sure how much the Brunswick Levy is, but if 40k is to much, you can always go with a model like an AMF Bullet or something similar.
Granted, supply and demand and economic theory. I was just discussing the tech and the elements in the machine.

They don't create stepper motors - they (should) buy them from a manufacturer. It should only need one for driving the machine itself, and one with the proper amount of torque (based on an estimation of maybe 100# - trying to be pessimistic) is only $5-600. MTBF for those is in the thousands of hours of continuous operation.

LCD screens are a commodity and use a common bus to program.

Like I said - not trying to pick an argument, but the discussion, honestly, was condescending and lacking any actual discussion. I thought it might be an interesting topic and was hoping someone might actually have some information. That's all. :) I'm a tech guy, I build things, I have neither desire nor infrastructure to build my own, just thinking about how it MIGHT be built and then why it costs as much as a car.

Pinsetters, on the other hand . . . I'm fairly sure those take a blood sacrifice to make work properly! :)
User avatar
bowl1820
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 1470
Joined: July 9th, 2012, 10:09 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: lane machines

Post by bowl1820 »

Another thing is lane machines are a speciality item for a limited market And so have a low production run that right there will make the price high. If houses replaced them like bowlers buying balls, then they might could lower the unit price do to hgher production numbers.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
User avatar
MeNoRevs
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 305
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 120
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
Preferred Company: I prefer them all
Location: Southern Maryland

Re: lane machines

Post by MeNoRevs »

boomer wrote:
Granted, supply and demand and economic theory. I was just discussing the tech and the elements in the machine.

They don't create stepper motors - they (should) buy them from a manufacturer. It should only need one for driving the machine itself, and one with the proper amount of torque (based on an estimation of maybe 100# - trying to be pessimistic) is only $5-600. MTBF for those is in the thousands of hours of continuous operation.

LCD screens are a commodity and use a common bus to program.

Like I said - not trying to pick an argument, but the discussion, honestly, was condescending and lacking any actual discussion. I thought it might be an interesting topic and was hoping someone might actually have some information. That's all. :) I'm a tech guy, I build things, I have neither desire nor infrastructure to build my own, just thinking about how it MIGHT be built and then why it costs as much as a car.

Pinsetters, on the other hand . . . I'm fairly sure those take a blood sacrifice to make work properly! :)
We are having our conference room redone, and the most costly thing is having the programmer program into the LCD and ipads the code to control everything with a touch of a button. I see this as the same thing. I believe with the Kegel machines, you can program and alter the amount and distance of any oil pattern. With the sensors they use in the lane walker, and probably thousands of hours of R&D, tooling, testing, the price is going to be quite high.

It would be interesting to know what their markup is at. I think any products aims for 100%
Post Reply