lane machines
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Banned
- Posts: 6
- Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Speed: 19 arrows
- Rev Rate: 390
- Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
- Medium Oil Ball: freeze
- Light Oil Ball: scout
- Preferred Company: none
lane machines
Do you think companies like Kegal are raping the bowling industry? Why does a lane machine cost 40 grand? If you think about it, it is really just a century machine that sprays the oil on and also cleans the lane w lane cleaner. A simple smart phone cpu could handle all functions and downloads. What are your thoughts?
- MeNoRevs
- Pro Shop
- Posts: 305
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 120
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
- Preferred Company: I prefer them all
- Location: Southern Maryland
Re: lane machines
I think it clearly shows that you do not know much about the technology behind a lane machine. Have you ever been to one of their shows or looked under the hood of one of their lane machines?nyrevsmachine wrote:Do you think companies like Kegal are raping the bowling industry? Why does a lane machine cost 40 grand? If you think about it, it is really just a century machine that sprays the oil on and also cleans the lane w lane cleaner. A simple smart phone cpu could handle all functions and downloads. What are your thoughts?
If you think Kegel is raping the bowling industry, this is a perfect opportunity to jump in and undercut them and make millions. I am sure you can invent a lane machine that walks and needs no interaction with sensors with a snapdragon cpu.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 6
- Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Speed: 19 arrows
- Rev Rate: 390
- Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
- Medium Oil Ball: freeze
- Light Oil Ball: scout
- Preferred Company: none
Re: lane machines
Actualy i understand quite clearly. I have owned 2 of these machines, and been to a kegal training course. They do not need to be this complex.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 6
- Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Speed: 19 arrows
- Rev Rate: 390
- Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
- Medium Oil Ball: freeze
- Light Oil Ball: scout
- Preferred Company: none
Re: lane machines
Speaking as someone who has oiled thoisands of lanes with these machines....i can tell you that the maintanance and upkeep of these machines is very time consuming. If you really think you push a button and walk away you are mistaken. If you fart near one of these machines those sensors you speak of come out of adjustment. They dont need to be that complex.
- MeNoRevs
- Pro Shop
- Posts: 305
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 120
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
- Preferred Company: I prefer them all
- Location: Southern Maryland
Re: lane machines
Well then there is an open place in the market for you to take over. It sounds simple!nyrevsmachine wrote:Speaking as someone who has oiled thoisands of lanes with these machines....i can tell you that the maintanance and upkeep of these machines is very time consuming. If you really think you push a button and walk away you are mistaken. If you fart near one of these machines those sensors you speak of come out of adjustment. They dont need to be that complex.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 6
- Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Speed: 19 arrows
- Rev Rate: 390
- Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
- Medium Oil Ball: freeze
- Light Oil Ball: scout
- Preferred Company: none
Re: lane machines
You sound like a fool.i think we are done here.
- MegaMav
- Moderator
- Posts: 4694
- Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
- THS Average: 225
- Sport Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
- Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 14
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
- Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
- Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
- Location: Malta, NY
Re: lane machines
Warning issued to nyrevsmachine.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 6
- Joined: August 29th, 2018, 4:54 pm
- THS Average: 220
- Speed: 19 arrows
- Rev Rate: 390
- Heavy Oil Ball: not needed
- Medium Oil Ball: freeze
- Light Oil Ball: scout
- Preferred Company: none
Re: lane machines
Megamav....[CENSORED] off and die!!!!
Last edited by MegaMav on August 30th, 2018, 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Cleaned up post. User banned. Wont make the sticky though, not a significant user.
Reason: Cleaned up post. User banned. Wont make the sticky though, not a significant user.
-
- Member
- Posts: 305
- Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
- THS Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
- Speed: 13.8 at pindeck
- Rev Rate: 230
- Preferred Company: Storm (it smells pretty)
Re: lane machines
I'm in the tech industry (well, academia anyway, but I actually DO the tech around here, LOL) and I've wondered the same thing.
I know motors can be expensive, but steppers with that torque don't cost all that much when we're talking about 5 figures. . .
The spray tech either is or could be adapted from ink-jet tech, which has been around for . . . at least a decade or two and is cheap cheap cheap. For that width, I have a printer that has a 42" print-span so that part could be adapted.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I don't think the original poster was either (although he could have worded it less confrontationally) but. . . honestly, what advances have been made in lane machine tech lately? Aside from the completely remote ones (which, honestly, while quite cool, is pretty standard stuff these days), what really is inside these things that makes them cost, what was said? $40K? That's nearly as much as my Wrangler Unlimited Sahara or even a Mercedes (just for comparison).
Second - what options are out there? Is Brunswick still selling them? Is Kegel the only one left?
I know motors can be expensive, but steppers with that torque don't cost all that much when we're talking about 5 figures. . .
The spray tech either is or could be adapted from ink-jet tech, which has been around for . . . at least a decade or two and is cheap cheap cheap. For that width, I have a printer that has a 42" print-span so that part could be adapted.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I don't think the original poster was either (although he could have worded it less confrontationally) but. . . honestly, what advances have been made in lane machine tech lately? Aside from the completely remote ones (which, honestly, while quite cool, is pretty standard stuff these days), what really is inside these things that makes them cost, what was said? $40K? That's nearly as much as my Wrangler Unlimited Sahara or even a Mercedes (just for comparison).
Second - what options are out there? Is Brunswick still selling them? Is Kegel the only one left?
- MeNoRevs
- Pro Shop
- Posts: 305
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 120
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
- Preferred Company: I prefer them all
- Location: Southern Maryland
Re: lane machines
Price is not always dictated on tooling and manufacturing parts. R&D also goes into the cost. I am sure a pretty penny went into creating the stepper motors to work with the sprayer, to work with the LCD screen that would need to be coded and tested. Kegel is also out there to make money. If it was overpriced to proprieties then no would buy it, and then they would have to reduce pricing, but most centers I have walked into, has one.boomer wrote:I'm in the tech industry (well, academia anyway, but I actually DO the tech around here, LOL) and I've wondered the same thing.
I know motors can be expensive, but steppers with that torque don't cost all that much when we're talking about 5 figures. . .
The spray tech either is or could be adapted from ink-jet tech, which has been around for . . . at least a decade or two and is cheap cheap cheap. For that width, I have a printer that has a 42" print-span so that part could be adapted.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I don't think the original poster was either (although he could have worded it less confrontationally) but. . . honestly, what advances have been made in lane machine tech lately? Aside from the completely remote ones (which, honestly, while quite cool, is pretty standard stuff these days), what really is inside these things that makes them cost, what was said? $40K? That's nearly as much as my Wrangler Unlimited Sahara or even a Mercedes (just for comparison).
Second - what options are out there? Is Brunswick still selling them? Is Kegel the only one left?
40k, imo is not expensive when your talking about a house that has decent linage. This machine will have to work twice a day for x amount of weeks, a lot of time with minimal downtime because there is no backup.
I am not sure how much the Brunswick Levy is, but if 40k is to much, you can always go with a model like an AMF Bullet or something similar.
-
- Member
- Posts: 305
- Joined: October 5th, 2012, 3:47 pm
- THS Average: 200
- Positive Axis Point: 6 3/16 x 1/2 up
- Speed: 13.8 at pindeck
- Rev Rate: 230
- Preferred Company: Storm (it smells pretty)
Re: lane machines
Granted, supply and demand and economic theory. I was just discussing the tech and the elements in the machine.MeNoRevs wrote:
Price is not always dictated on tooling and manufacturing parts. R&D also goes into the cost. I am sure a pretty penny went into creating the stepper motors to work with the sprayer, to work with the LCD screen that would need to be coded and tested. Kegel is also out there to make money. If it was overpriced to proprieties then no would buy it, and then they would have to reduce pricing, but most centers I have walked into, has one.
40k, imo is not expensive when your talking about a house that has decent linage. This machine will have to work twice a day for x amount of weeks, a lot of time with minimal downtime because there is no backup.
I am not sure how much the Brunswick Levy is, but if 40k is to much, you can always go with a model like an AMF Bullet or something similar.
They don't create stepper motors - they (should) buy them from a manufacturer. It should only need one for driving the machine itself, and one with the proper amount of torque (based on an estimation of maybe 100# - trying to be pessimistic) is only $5-600. MTBF for those is in the thousands of hours of continuous operation.
LCD screens are a commodity and use a common bus to program.
Like I said - not trying to pick an argument, but the discussion, honestly, was condescending and lacking any actual discussion. I thought it might be an interesting topic and was hoping someone might actually have some information. That's all. I'm a tech guy, I build things, I have neither desire nor infrastructure to build my own, just thinking about how it MIGHT be built and then why it costs as much as a car.
Pinsetters, on the other hand . . . I'm fairly sure those take a blood sacrifice to make work properly!
Re: lane machines
Another thing is lane machines are a speciality item for a limited market And so have a low production run that right there will make the price high. If houses replaced them like bowlers buying balls, then they might could lower the unit price do to hgher production numbers.
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
- MeNoRevs
- Pro Shop
- Posts: 305
- Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
- THS Average: 120
- Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
- Preferred Company: I prefer them all
- Location: Southern Maryland
Re: lane machines
We are having our conference room redone, and the most costly thing is having the programmer program into the LCD and ipads the code to control everything with a touch of a button. I see this as the same thing. I believe with the Kegel machines, you can program and alter the amount and distance of any oil pattern. With the sensors they use in the lane walker, and probably thousands of hours of R&D, tooling, testing, the price is going to be quite high.boomer wrote:
Granted, supply and demand and economic theory. I was just discussing the tech and the elements in the machine.
They don't create stepper motors - they (should) buy them from a manufacturer. It should only need one for driving the machine itself, and one with the proper amount of torque (based on an estimation of maybe 100# - trying to be pessimistic) is only $5-600. MTBF for those is in the thousands of hours of continuous operation.
LCD screens are a commodity and use a common bus to program.
Like I said - not trying to pick an argument, but the discussion, honestly, was condescending and lacking any actual discussion. I thought it might be an interesting topic and was hoping someone might actually have some information. That's all. I'm a tech guy, I build things, I have neither desire nor infrastructure to build my own, just thinking about how it MIGHT be built and then why it costs as much as a car.
Pinsetters, on the other hand . . . I'm fairly sure those take a blood sacrifice to make work properly!
It would be interesting to know what their markup is at. I think any products aims for 100%