Help Nord Score On House Shots

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » July 20th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Nord wrote: It has an oily texture to it all the time even if I clean it with 91% isopropyl.
If the pro shop is in a temperature compromised bowling center the plug could be bad.
It may not have cured properly.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by JohnP » July 20th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Try Goo Gone to get that mess out of the thumb hole. I dampen a paper towel with it and work it around the inside of the hole with a finger. It's citrus based. After use I use rubbing alcohol to remove the last of the Goo Gone. You can find it at any WalMart, Home Depot, etc. See the link for more information. -- JohnP

https://googone.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » July 20th, 2018, 9:40 pm

He has a new plug ready for me that he made last week because we already felt it was bad, but we wanted to try new black tape just in case it was the tape.
It was not the tape as the glue fell off on the cork too.
Will get the new hole put in tonight.

And maybe this Saturday I might shoot a video of the Jackpot in action on different parts of the lane at Kearny so you can see how it responds.
Maybe this can help you see how it is doing for me.
I will leave it at 4000 grit polished for the video.

I will not be bowling on Sunday this week as I go to Comic Con that day!
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by seventen7ten » July 21st, 2018, 4:18 pm

JohnP wrote:Try Goo Gone to get that mess out of the thumb hole. I dampen a paper towel with it and work it around the inside of the hole with a finger. It's citrus based. After use I use rubbing alcohol to remove the last of the Goo Gone. You can find it at any WalMart, Home Depot, etc. See the link for more information. -- JohnP

https://googone.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I just use plain Naphtha. Put a few drops on an old cotton handkerchief and rub it around the inside of the hole. It leaves the hole squeaky clean without the need to use another chemical to clean out the residue left by Goo Gone. And it can also remove any oil from your fingers/thumb.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by seventen7ten » July 21st, 2018, 4:29 pm

Nord wrote:. . . Take a bowler like Jesper Svensson.
He only uses one ball, the Pitch Black urethane. But he has a whole arsenal of Pitch Black urethanes at different grits and layouts standing by so he can grab another as he plays and the shot changes. Isn't that a better strategy? Obviously I can't have 20 balls and a team of reps working them for me like caddies on a golf course like he does. But you get the idea.
I like this idea! Since you are more comfortable with urethane balls, why not try a few different layouts/surfaces and see if that works for you. Four layouts, 5 pads; in effect you have a 20 ball arsenal. (I'm serious)

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » July 21st, 2018, 7:14 pm

seventen7ten wrote: I like this idea! Since you are more comfortable with urethane balls, why not try a few different layouts/surfaces and see if that works for you. Four layouts, 5 pads; in effect you have a 20 ball arsenal. (I'm serious)
Lol
It was just a random thought that came to me after the disaster at Surf last Thursday.
I was lined up perfect with the Purple.
Every shot, even crappy hits were strikes.
I had 6 in a row.
I stopped bowling and got a drink.
I came back and play started and...totally different reaction!
Was I on the wrong pair?
Had the oil man just snuck over when I was in the bar and stripped the lane?
Nope. Same ball. Same pair. The only difference was the Purple at 500 grit went up second arrow three times on each lane and then 5 min of sitting till I got back with my drink.
That resulted in a change from 6 in a row in practice to 5 total strikes in 3 games!

Now suppose I had another identical Purple at 1000 grit and another at 2000 grit.
I could have just picked up the 1000 and likely been back to striking and if it started to die out, pick up the 2000 and again be back to striking.

Jesper only uses that one ball.
What he does get with this strategy is a reliable and familiar ball motion that he has adapted to and can score with consistently on a wide variety of conditions.
He knows what this one ball will do and he just picks the one that matches up for the lanes that day and changes to another one as the set goes on.

Here is a little Storm Video where Jesper says some interesting things about why he uses only one ball. A urethane ball:

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » July 22nd, 2018, 4:16 am

MegaMav wrote:Nord, when will you show video of the Jackpot?
It's your benchmark ball, it may be a good way to illustrate your nightly bowling diary on here.
As requested, today I went to Kearny and did a video of the Jackpot.
What you will see in the video is me trying the lane from 4 to 10.
Moving left incrementally.

I started up 4 and if I hit 4 or 4 1/2 perfectly then the ball could get down to the pocket.
Then I tried up 5 and it also got to the pocket.
But half a board miss left of 5 and it would cross over and half a board miss right of 4 and it would not come back.
So as MegaMav pointed out before, that is not miss room!

So then I made 2-1 moves left until I found the area.
I went 6, then 7 and then 8.
Once I got to right foot on 12 hitting 8 the ball had miss room to the right.
Once that shot went high, I made another 2-1 move to right foot 14 hitting 9.
When that went high I made another 2-1 move to right foot on 16 hitting 10, but it was an over correction as you will see and I left the bucket.
I then moved my foot only, right to 15 and I was back in the pocket.
You will also see that I had miss room on the inside on a couple of shots.
I left the Jackpot as is, 4000 grit polished.

There were two issues with the new thumbhole, it felt wrong, like it wanted to fall off my thumb.
I put more and more tape in the back, but it still felt like it wanted to fall off.
After I finished I looked at the thumb and could see it had split lengthwise.
So I think when I held it to throw it, it was flexing and separating and widening the oval, making it seem like it wanted to fall off.
I will try to get it fixed early Monday so I can use it in Parkway league.

Please enjoy my Jackpot video and let me know if you think I am now getting it and making a good follow through and projection as MegaMav wanted me to.

Also, is the Jackpot doing the thing you wanted MegaMav?

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by GrumpyCatFace » July 22nd, 2018, 5:24 am

You found miss room when your angle increased. By halfway through the video, you’re projecting the ball out to the right, from oil to dry. That’s why it got easier.

For me (and most strokers ) it’s best to start out standing in the middle, and shooting at second arrow. Then adjust as needed.

Also, I’m no coach, but you need to cross over your steps more, and get that trail leg to the left. You’re putting a lot of strain on your back, stopping forward like that.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » July 22nd, 2018, 3:21 pm

Nord wrote: Also, is the Jackpot doing the thing you wanted MegaMav?
Its about as good as you're going to get considering your release specs.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » July 30th, 2018, 8:41 pm

A quick check in to let you know what is up.
I have nothing big to report.
Still trying to figure out how to use the Jackpot and also experimenting with playing right of second arrow.
Mixed results, no high scores or high series.
Thursday at Surf I bowled a 624 series using only my True Motion with Axis drill and playing 7 down and in.
Only two open frames, one split and one boo, boo.
Surf is pretty dry right of second arrow so the TM at 1000 grit will hit very hard as long as I keep it right of 8.
But at Parkway and Kearny the TM is too weak to play out there.

Playing right is an area I have been having issues achieving success with.
What I find is pretty much every ball I have is far, far too strong to play up 7 or 6.
They just wont get down far enough before they break loose and go left.
Also, when that far right, misses right do not come back.
It may just be my release specs are not conducive to playing from the right?
Any advice is welcome.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by GrumpyCatFace » July 30th, 2018, 11:25 pm

Stand on middle dot, aim at gap between 2nd-3rd dot. Watch the ball curve out and back. Adjust 2 boards at a time.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » July 31st, 2018, 3:56 am

Nord House Shot Report from Parkway:

Used the Jackpot for all three games and was able to play the lanes the way I wanted.
Straight up 9, ball would get perfect length and then roll hard through the pins.
If I missed right it came back.
If I missed a board inside it held.
I blew the 10th frame in Game 1 and Game 3 and had a split in Game 2.
Yet despite that I still closed with a 603 series and my team won 3 against a player who bowled a 737 and had a 287 in Game 3 which we still won!

Afterwards my doubles partner told me, "That ball is perfect for you. It's a very good ball and is working wonders for you."
He now calls it the "Wonder Ball."
And I must admit it is so much easier to get strikes with the Jackpot than any other ball I have used.
It really inspires confidence because I know if I make a good shot with it, there is no question that it will strike.
Also I am making all spares with it pretty easy.
I converted the baby split and the 4-5 by splitting the uprights.

Actually the bowler who bowled the 287 watched my blow the 10th in Game 3 by missing the 4-7 to the right.
I don't know why I do this sometimes.
It is so random and comes out of nowhere.
As I walked back he said: "You don't miss spares."
And he meant it because he saw me snag all my spares and even splits.
Anyway, really loving the Jackpot.

I am trying to understand what MegaMav means by tall cores.
I notice a big difference when I roll balls with different types of cores.
I put the 45 degree down, 1.5" layout on my Crow urethane and tried it in warmup tonight.
The reaction was horrible.
It would get length and then kinda be sudden but not convincing.
After a game of practice with that ball and no strikes I pulled out my Purple and it was night and day.
The Purple was a totally different reaction, smooth, subtle and strong, hooking through the whole lane front to back and continuous in the back.
Then when I went to the Jackpot, the reaction was also very smooth and continuous, though later.

Would you say the Jackpot and Purple both epitomize "Tall Cores" while the Crow does not, which is why that ball has never worked for me?

https://www.visionarybowling.com/ball/the-crow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » August 14th, 2018, 3:51 pm

After working with the Jackpot at Polished 4000 grit for the last few weeks, I am seeing this main problem:

Jackpot is too strong to play right of second arrow, but too weak to play on, or inside of second arrow.
This seems true of all three houses.

If I try to lay the Jackpot right up 7 or 8, it turns over instantly and rolls out like one of my strong urethanes.
But if I roll it right up second arrow it labors.
If I move left and try to roll it over second arrow out to say 8 or 7 then it has trouble getting back unless the shot is dead perfect.
Only when the lanes really dry out can I do the left to right thing with it.
And only when the lanes really dry out can I go right up second arrow and expect the ball to roll strongly in the back.

So the Jackpot has been very condition specific for me.
I thought about changing the surface, but I am not sure what to do.
It is already at 4000 grit polished and is too strong to play right with for me.
But too weak to play right in the oil.

What should I do?

That one day at Kearny when I bowled the 667 they had a lot of oil right of second arrow and I was able to go down and in and the ball held and did not lose energy and rolled hard in the back.
Have not see that much oil on the outsides in any of the three houses in awhile.
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd » August 14th, 2018, 5:04 pm

you keep asking the same question expecting a different answer. Get the ball further right earlier and it will come back. If it's rolling up early outside 10, that means you have free hook to bounce the ball off of. So if it labors at 43 feet at 8, get it to 6 at 35 feet (first range finder) and it should make the move with your ball speed. And if you want to play straight(er), bring the Rack Attack since it's your ball down and repeat adjustments. And if that's too strong bring the Widow Spare out and roll that straight off the pattern and repeat adjustments. You have to learn to read the ball, doesn't matter if it's urethane, resin or plastic. Play the lane, not just second arrow. Talking about 10 to 8-7 is only a 2-3 inch difference, which is nothing. Play 2 to 8, 3 to 10 (true down and in), straight up 5, 7 to 3, etc..Learn to bowl, not just roll the ball in one way in a 3 inch wide spot and throw your hands up if it's not there.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » August 15th, 2018, 3:29 am

44boyd wrote:you keep asking the same question expecting a different answer. Get the ball further right earlier and it will come back. If it's rolling up early outside 10, that means you have free hook to bounce the ball off of. So if it labors at 43 feet at 8, get it to 6 at 35 feet (first range finder) and it should make the move with your ball speed. And if you want to play straight(er), bring the Rack Attack since it's your ball down and repeat adjustments. And if that's too strong bring the Widow Spare out and roll that straight off the pattern and repeat adjustments. You have to learn to read the ball, doesn't matter if it's urethane, resin or plastic. Play the lane, not just second arrow. Talking about 10 to 8-7 is only a 2-3 inch difference, which is nothing. Play 2 to 8, 3 to 10 (true down and in), straight up 5, 7 to 3, etc..Learn to bowl, not just roll the ball in one way in a 3 inch wide spot and throw your hands up if it's not there.
You didn't really hear what I said.
If I roll directly up 8, 7 or 6 the ball instantly goes from side roll to forward roll and is a dead ball.
Up 5 is just as bad.
If I move left and roll right up 10 the ball wont hook.
If I roll over 10 out to 8 or 7, unless the lane is very dry on 10, then the ball will not hook back from out there.
So the ball seems too strong and too weak at the same time.

This Monday at Parkway this is what I was faced with.
I could not use my weakest urethane ball right of second arrow because it just died out.
Jackpot also died out instantly.
Up second arrow it worked great for 5 frames and then the oil was gone and now it would no longer react in the back.
I tried pushing it right, but it wouldn't come back, it just kinda died out there.

I can't take 6 balls with me each time out.
But the last few weeks the environment has been such that the balls I have taken, trying to out guess the condition, were wrong each time and left me with a poor or no look.
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Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 110
Ball speed: 10 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » August 15th, 2018, 5:31 am

Nord wrote:What should I do?
We've prescribed everything to you to be successful within this thread.
It seems you wont get off the track area. Oh well.

Brett Favre: "Take 2 weeks off, then quit."

You've been given mostly good advice in this 700+ post topic.
Time to take the training wheels off and start experimenting yourself.
Not everything in the game is a logical procedure.

Im locking this thread. I recommend taking the time to re-read it instead of asking the same questions.
Thank you to everyone who contributed.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » August 15th, 2018, 5:13 pm

Oh, one last thing. Posting this in the Radical Bowling Fans facebook group after I spent all that time matching you up perfectly with a reactive ball from MY collection isnt exactly going make me happy.
Screenshot from 2018-08-15 13-09-10.png
This thread closure is for your own good. The earlier you can start thinking for yourself and learning the cause and effect of the game the better off you'll be. Its all here in the thread, its complete, thorough and a guide for those looking to bowl on a house shot with less than 10* of tilt.
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