Board index » General Forums » General Bowling




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 717 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:42 am Post Number: #661 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
Based on your ball motion, I think you're speed dominant.
Technically you shouldnt be completely in the oil or completely in the dry.
There is very little shape to the oil pattern front to back or left to right in either of those areas in their entirety.

When I told you to try outside of 10 or even 5 thats when you encountered "too much oil". Im trying to get you around the overblock of oil and slug of carrydown downlane. Its not a strategy thats portable to every situation and you do need head oil to make it work.

Bowling is not homogeneous, there is no single solution to every problem.

Bowling is this:

1. Reading your ball motion.
2. Finding a spot of the lane that allows your ball to slow down at the right time.
3. Figuring out the correct ball moton to make the ball go thru the pins the right way, splitting the 8-9 is best.
4. Making the on lane adjustments to keep doing 2 and 3.
5. If its not working, figuring out which ball will get you there.

We're no longer cramming the ball up 10 for better or worse, bowling has become cerebral now.
Welcome to the game.

Time to start practicing other things, like playing tighter to the pocket and use touch to get the ball to pick up. Also time to get your hand completely in the ball to reduce the knuckling effect and increase your ball reaction. If you can put the ball by your side, let go and the ball falls off with no grip pressure, its too loose. More tape, dont squeeze.
To get the ball off, a small bump with a butt/palm of your hand thats in the ball should pop it off.

You were once a thrower, now you're becoming a BOWLER.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:53 am Post Number: #662 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
TomaHawk wrote:

Resin loses energy at faster rate

A strategically altered coverstock is going to respond in a very specific manner as compared to random RS/RA values.

Those are the two reasons I recommend a harder coverstock and a specific sanding pattern for Nord.


You should know better than to make a general, half baked statement like that on this website.
Thats not proof, thats not data, its your opinion.

Hardness on modern urethane is no different than resin.
Urethane is a weak shell made to appear strong with a lot of texture from surface roughness finishes usually below 500. It reads the front part of the lane and less on the backend. Not a good ball motion to score high on a high ratio shot and certainly not a good ball motion for someone with low tilt. Lose rotation in the front of the lane, flat angle on the back. Not smart. Enjoy shooting 180.

Resin has an additive that makes it porous.
Lets be accurate here. Resin can respond to friction at a faster rate than urethane, hence why it can create a greater angle on the backend of the lane.

The pores on the coverstock can grab the lane surface harder, get the ball to finish hooking faster. Pick a finish to get it down the lane, but slow down at the right time. Greater angle means more strikes.

Its been bowling's modus operandi for the last 25 years.
Where have you been? Stuck in the 80s with "sanding patterns".

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 pm Post Number: #663 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 297
Reputation: 76
Reputation Power: 1
Who in the world would take the time to do a study on sanding procedure or whether or not a plastic ball could create greater impact at the pins? USBC?

I've got to ask, how much does human perception factor into any case study? Does everyone need a spec sheet to confirm what intuition tells them?

Nord's Saga is a great example of how everything we have learned / know about ball movement can be thrown out the window. We are dealing with set perimeters in relation to his physical limitation. To mention idealistic information about ball motion is confusing to someone who has limitations.

The entire bowling industry is spec sheet driven. What happens when a person buys test tube hook and it goes straight? I am not about to bring up statistics that verify a marble will retain energy longer than a round sponge. Sometimes, common sense is the greater indicator.

Common sense, does Nord need a sponge or a marble?


Last edited by TomaHawk on Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:14 pm Post Number: #664 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 123
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav, would him adding more speed allow him to use stronger equipment? Maybe give him a more predictable action instead of praying it goes left?

_________________
Stacy


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:27 pm Post Number: #665 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 297
Reputation: 76
Reputation Power: 1
(With Nord's particular style and physical limitation, trying to create ball speed will only push the ball to the right faster. There is not enough rotation to bring it back)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:34 pm Post Number: #666 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: January 24, 2017
Posts: 123
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
Understood, but would the stronger cover stocks give him a chance to have a more predictable motion? I mean he’s a prisoner to a house shots condition, so unless he’s in an ideal situation his scores are going to be crap.

_________________
Stacy


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:00 pm Post Number: #667 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
TomaHawk wrote:
Who in the world would take the time to do a study on sanding procedure or whether or not a plastic ball could create greater impact at the pins? USBC?


Who in the world would make a claim like that without proof or data to back it up?
YOU could have... with a surface scanner.

TomaHawk wrote:
I've got to ask, how much does human perception factor into any case study? Does everyone need a spec sheet to confirm what intuition tells them?


In valid empirical studies, data either confirms or invalidates a hypothesis.

TomaHawk wrote:
What happens when a person buys test tube hook and it goes straight?


This question isnt relevant to this thread, no idea where you're going with this. There are many reasons.
If you're suggesting the Jackpot is the wrong ball, you're mistaken. He needs to adjust his surface on the fly in practice since his low tilt release is very environmentally dependent.

TomaHawk wrote:
Common sense, does Nord need a sponge or a marble?


Bowling is not that simple, or dichotomous.
Nord needs a marblized sponge. A finely finished reactive ball. Gets through to front of the lane and grabs the backend.

44boyd wrote:
MegaMav, would him adding more speed allow him to use stronger equipment? Maybe give him a more predictable action instead of praying it goes left?


Not advised, I already think hes speed dominant. Light covered balls with tall cores is what should match up best for him. The Coverstock wont interact with the lane surface as early or as fast and the core will wobble down the lane more being taller. Jackpot should be perfect, but he can explore with other balls like the new Brunswick Twist which I suspect uses a new formula coverstock similar to PowrKoil 17.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:23 pm Post Number: #668 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 297
Reputation: 76
Reputation Power: 1
Everything I mentioned is pertinent to this thread. Nord is unique in the vast world of bowling styles. Very few are old time full rollers. Relating to them is a different beast.

But, bringing up a surface scanner? It is not a customary pro shop practice to go up to a ball on the wall and show the different textures involved in the manufacturing process. Or, maybe it should be? We could dazzle our clientele with real time information which has already been provided in the brochures.

Let's be clear, resin is the ball of choice for almost everyone in the industry, as well it should be. No one is disputing that. And, Nord is a living example of that fact. (No, I don't have a stat sheet to back up that statement). But, in his case, where he was working on getting the ball in the best possible area on the lane for him, which I believe led to his all time, high score, he is now searching for area.

All of a sudden, where he was starting to pump out 600's with some regularity, he is encountering difficulty finding the pocket and is shooting in the low 500's. Why?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:38 pm Post Number: #669 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
TomaHawk wrote:
Everything I mentioned is pertinent to this thread. Nord is unique in the vast world of bowling styles. Very few are old time full rollers. Relating to them is a different beast.


Hes not unique, he has no tilt and just happens to flare through the center of grip.
I treat him like a no tilt bowler with flare safe layouts for his initial track.
There is no "magic" with full rollers.

TomaHawk wrote:
All of a sudden, where he was starting to pump out 600's with some regularity, he is encountering difficulty finding the pocket and is shooting in the low 500's. Why?


I prescribed the solution already. Matching up surface since his release is environmentally dependent, all no tilt bowlers are this way. Cant show up with a fine surface, see it goes too long and just keep jamming it in the same spot.
Its not that I dont believe in faith healing, its just I've never seen it work on a bowling lane before.
Its a game of intelligence and adjustments now.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:28 pm Post Number: #670 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts

Joined: January 24, 2012
Posts: 456
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:
Based on your ball motion, I think you're speed dominant.

This has been obvious from the start. He's speed dominant, low tilt, high rotation 90+ degrees.

Why are you recommending a shiny cover pearl for a speed dominant bowler? He needs a ball with a strong cover and surface to play the lane left-to-right. You were on the right track back on post #38 where you asked for a series of shots from the Dark Legend Solid @ 500 grit.

Post #160 5/24 Surf; Balls: WU(500), PH(500), DLS(4000); Result: 189, 146, 168; Problem: Over/under
Post #301 6/1 Surf; Balls: RA(4000), AA(600/1500), TM(1000); Result: 143, 203, 160; Problem: No hook with the RA then Over Under with AA
Post #405 6/8 Surf; Balls: AA(?), TM(2000), PH(2000); Result: 176, 235, 237; Problem: Arm out the first game ("If I had not played with my arm out in the first game I might have had an even higher series. I never moved an inch with either my target or my feet.")
Post #414 6/14 Surf; Balls: RA(?), PH(?); Result: 185, 259, 187; Problem: Too much oil game 1, tired game 3
Post #462 6/21 Surf; Balls: RA(4000), PH(2000), TM(?); Result: 197, 192, 186; Problem: Too much oil
Post #521 6/28 Surf; Balls: PH, WU; Result: 207, 210, 210; Problem: No problem, but "I felt I could have struck more if I had a ball that had a touch more recovery from misses right and had a tad more backend pop. I was somewhat unsatisfied because I had problems getting my urethane balls to roll up correctly and had to make a lot of spares."
Post #589 7/12 Surf; Balls: JP(?), RA(?), PH(2000/4000); Result: 200, 149, 175; Problem: Too much hook outside, over/under playing straight up, not enough hook crossing 2-3 boards; Note: Scratch bowler said it was hot and humid and made over under worse
Post #108 5/20 Kearny; Balls: PH & RA; Result: 139, 142, 178; Problem: Flood, no hook;
Post #424 6/17 Kearney; Balls: MS(320), WU(500), PH(2000); Result: 163, 173, 142; Problem: Flood, no hook;
Post #503 6/24 Kearny; Balls: TM(3000), PH(?); Result: 176, ?, ?(6 bagger); Problem: Playing up 5 was over/under with TM; Note: House said they "fixed" the oil machine. Less oil.
Post #530 7/2 Kearny; Balls: MS(800), PH(1000), JP(4000); 169, 194, 181; Problem: Flood, no hook
Post #558 7/9 Kearny; Balls: JP(?); 244, 257, 210; Problem: No problem, played 2nd arrow, moved 1 board all night
Post #617 7/16 Kearny; Balls: JP(?), GU(500/1000), RA(?); Result: 166, 179, 132; Problem: Poor execution, no hook
Post #119 5/21 Parkway; Balls: AP(3000), WU(500), PH(1000); Result: 216, 209, 151; Problem: Lost in transition
Post #348 6/4 Parkway; Balls: WU(500?), PH(500?), Result: 226, 202, 205; Problem: No problem ("I never moved my foot or tartget for the whole set")
Post #437 6/18 Parkway; Balls: PH, WU, RA; Result: 163, 183, 204; Problem: Over/under
Post #512 6/25 Parkway; Balls: RA, PH, WU; Result: 171, 225, 205; Problem: Game 1 over/under, switched to Purple 2nd arrow for game 2
Post #531 7/2 Parkway; Balls: PH(?), JP(?); 202, 191, 190; Problem: over under with JP playing parallel
Post #567 7/9 Parkway; Balls: JP(?), RA(?), PH(?); Result: 154, 205, 212; Problem: Started up 5, over/under; Adjustment: Moved to straight up 2nd arrow
Post #630 7/16 Parkway; Balls: JP, PH(500, cross track); Result: 156, 185, 214; Problem: Over under with the JP; Adjustment: Play straight up 10 with PH

So for Surf your problems have been over/under, no hook and over under, too much oil, not enough pop, over/under.

For Kearny your problems have been no hook, no hook, over under, no hook, and poor execution/no hook.

For Parkway your problems have been over/under, over/under, over/under, over/under and over/under.

Can we all agree the typical suggestion for over under is to play across the wall with more surface? Especially if you're speed dominant? And you're constantly up against not enough hook. Again, more surface will help with that.

See post #452 for my suggested solution to this problem. Between that and the Purple Hammer, you should be golden.

_________________
James Talley


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:42 pm Post Number: #671 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts

Joined: January 24, 2012
Posts: 456
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
TomaHawk wrote:
Nord's ball is going end over end all the way down the lane.

Ok, at this point I'm legitimately wondering if you've actually watched a video of Nord bowling, if you're that forgetful, or if you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't see how it could be anything outside of those 3 options. Nord has 90+ degrees of rotation. End over end roll is 0 degrees rotation. Here's a link to the axis rotation picture. Note that rotation is on the X-axis of the picture.
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... ltball.JPG

TomaHawk wrote:
(With Nord's particular style and physical limitation, trying to create ball speed will only push the ball to the right faster. There is not enough rotation to bring it back)

I don't think you are using rotation in the same manner as the rest of the BC community. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming you mean revolutions and not rotation. It's hard to have a coherent conversation if everyone doesn't use the same terminology.

_________________
James Talley


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:00 pm Post Number: #672 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: August 11, 2014
Posts: 544
Reputation: 81
Reputation Power: 1
Arkansas wrote:
Can we all agree the typical suggestion for over under is to play across the wall with more surface? Especially if you're speed dominant? And you're constantly up against not enough hook. Again, more surface will help with that.


Thank you James! I think MegaMav's idea with the polished pearl Jackpot was to start on/outside 5 (for angle) and then move in as needed. Nord is uncomfortable that close to the gutter and has not changed surface or brought equipment that allows him to move in with confidence. That 100 degrees of rotation and zero tilt aren't helping. Night after night, he's trapped - and frustrated.

It's always a challenge to get bowlers to move into the oil, open up slightly, and project towards the friction. We lack trust, and old habits die hard. It will take a concerted effort on Nord's part to accept the new shape and to dial in his equipment so that it works for his release characteristics.

Throwing urethane up 8 is (psychologically) a much easier proposition, but isn't going to provide room for growth and improvement. Sure, he can become a better spare shooter. Perhaps he can average 180, 185 over time - but I don't see him progressing with weak equipment and the old technique.

Steve

_________________
18-19 mph (15.5-16.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:20 pm Post Number: #673 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
Arkansas wrote:
Why are you recommending a shiny cover pearl for a speed dominant bowler? He needs a ball with a strong cover and surface to play the lane left-to-right.


I disagree with you.
A light reactive cover with a shiny finish and a lower diff layout on a tall core to keep the bowtie tight will allow the ball to hook for longer, giving him a better angle on the pocket.
He has no tilt and excessive rotation, we need to elongate the hook zone for good ball motion.
Going with a more aggressive ball will make his ball finish hooking earlier and have a poor angle on the pocket.
I sent him a ball and it matched up well enough once for him to set a high series.
He just needs to match the surface up each week.
Watch his Gladiator video to see how a bigger cover and core interact with his lane surface playing to the friction.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:54 pm Post Number: #674 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8, 2012
Posts: 749
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
Arkansas wrote:
This has been obvious from the start. He's speed dominant, low tilt, high rotation 90+ degrees.

Why are you recommending a shiny cover pearl for a speed dominant bowler? He needs a ball with a strong cover and surface to play the lane left-to-right. You were on the right track back on post #38 where you asked for a series of shots from the Dark Legend Solid @ 500 grit.

Post #160 5/24 Surf; Balls: WU(500), PH(500), DLS(4000); Result: 189, 146, 168; Problem: Over/under
Post #301 6/1 Surf; Balls: RA(4000), AA(600/1500), TM(1000); Result: 143, 203, 160; Problem: No hook with the RA then Over Under with AA
Post #405 6/8 Surf; Balls: AA(?), TM(2000), PH(2000); Result: 176, 235, 237; Problem: Arm out the first game ("If I had not played with my arm out in the first game I might have had an even higher series. I never moved an inch with either my target or my feet.")
Post #414 6/14 Surf; Balls: RA(?), PH(?); Result: 185, 259, 187; Problem: Too much oil game 1, tired game 3
Post #462 6/21 Surf; Balls: RA(4000), PH(2000), TM(?); Result: 197, 192, 186; Problem: Too much oil
Post #521 6/28 Surf; Balls: PH, WU; Result: 207, 210, 210; Problem: No problem, but "I felt I could have struck more if I had a ball that had a touch more recovery from misses right and had a tad more backend pop. I was somewhat unsatisfied because I had problems getting my urethane balls to roll up correctly and had to make a lot of spares."
Post #589 7/12 Surf; Balls: JP(?), RA(?), PH(2000/4000); Result: 200, 149, 175; Problem: Too much hook outside, over/under playing straight up, not enough hook crossing 2-3 boards; Note: Scratch bowler said it was hot and humid and made over under worse
Post #108 5/20 Kearny; Balls: PH & RA; Result: 139, 142, 178; Problem: Flood, no hook;
Post #424 6/17 Kearney; Balls: MS(320), WU(500), PH(2000); Result: 163, 173, 142; Problem: Flood, no hook;
Post #503 6/24 Kearny; Balls: TM(3000), PH(?); Result: 176, ?, ?(6 bagger); Problem: Playing up 5 was over/under with TM; Note: House said they "fixed" the oil machine. Less oil.
Post #530 7/2 Kearny; Balls: MS(800), PH(1000), JP(4000); 169, 194, 181; Problem: Flood, no hook
Post #558 7/9 Kearny; Balls: JP(?); 244, 257, 210; Problem: No problem, played 2nd arrow, moved 1 board all night
Post #617 7/16 Kearny; Balls: JP(?), GU(500/1000), RA(?); Result: 166, 179, 132; Problem: Poor execution, no hook
Post #119 5/21 Parkway; Balls: AP(3000), WU(500), PH(1000); Result: 216, 209, 151; Problem: Lost in transition
Post #348 6/4 Parkway; Balls: WU(500?), PH(500?), Result: 226, 202, 205; Problem: No problem ("I never moved my foot or tartget for the whole set")
Post #437 6/18 Parkway; Balls: PH, WU, RA; Result: 163, 183, 204; Problem: Over/under
Post #512 6/25 Parkway; Balls: RA, PH, WU; Result: 171, 225, 205; Problem: Game 1 over/under, switched to Purple 2nd arrow for game 2
Post #531 7/2 Parkway; Balls: PH(?), JP(?); 202, 191, 190; Problem: over under with JP playing parallel
Post #567 7/9 Parkway; Balls: JP(?), RA(?), PH(?); Result: 154, 205, 212; Problem: Started up 5, over/under; Adjustment: Moved to straight up 2nd arrow
Post #630 7/16 Parkway; Balls: JP, PH(500, cross track); Result: 156, 185, 214; Problem: Over under with the JP; Adjustment: Play straight up 10 with PH

So for Surf your problems have been over/under, no hook and over under, too much oil, not enough pop, over/under.

For Kearny your problems have been no hook, no hook, over under, no hook, and poor execution/no hook.

For Parkway your problems have been over/under, over/under, over/under, over/under and over/under.

Can we all agree the typical suggestion for over under is to play across the wall with more surface? Especially if you're speed dominant? And you're constantly up against not enough hook. Again, more surface will help with that.

See post #452 for my suggested solution to this problem. Between that and the Purple Hammer, you should be golden.

Thank you for taking the time to do this amazing analysis!
And it does look like the majority of the time I am under-gunned.
Either the ball doesn't hook at all, or hooks weakly, or is twitchy, hooks sometimes and sometimes not.
That is the general experience.
Since I started these three leagues, that has been the story.
No clear defined hook zone producing a consistent and reliable reaction.
Once I got it with the Jackpot up 10 and set a record series, but nothing since.
My fall back when the lanes aren't offering me anything is to go to the strongest urethane ball I have and roll it easy up second arrow, stay in the pocket and make my spares.

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:05 pm Post Number: #675 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8, 2012
Posts: 749
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:
I sent him a ball and it matched up well enough once for him to set a high series.
He just needs to match the surface up each week.

Ok, I will take pads.
I will take the Jackpot.
Jackpot is currently polished.
I can take it down if I don't see the hook I want.

But...it is more complicated than that.

Where to play on the lane?

I can adjust the surface all day, that is easy.
But if I am hunting around on the lane, how do I even know what surface to try since I haven't even found a reaction or lack of reaction in a chosen area of the lane to play?

If you told me, "Nord, only play up 8 and do whatever is needed to the surface to get the ball to respond perfectly up 8" then that would be easy to accomplish.

But when you are telling me first try the ball up 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and then once you have exausted all of those change the surface and repeat and then change again and repeat and so on.
That is a lot of experimentation time I simply don't have in a 5 min warm up at Parkway and a 10 min warm up at Kearny with 8 people on the lane.

At Kearny I am lucky to get 4 shots total, not per lane.
At Parkway I get maybe 4 per lane if I work fast.

Now Surf is different.
We have 3 man teams and they give us 15 min of warm up!
So I can and do experiment there.
Still, trying the ball all over the lane and then adjusting surface is a lot of time and work and then you are saying have other reactive balls that I could also try and change surface on?

This seems far too complicated to accomplish.

Do you have an easier scenario for me?

How about I only have the Jackpot and only choose one part of the lane to play and then adjust the surface to work in that one area?

Baby steps...

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:29 pm Post Number: #676 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
My answer is: Whatever it takes.

If the ball is still hooking and goes behind the headpin, more surface.
If the ball rolls forward too early on a bad angle, less surface or ball down.
Its up to you the bowler to read what is going on, on the lane and make the adjustments necessary to get the ball to the pocket, then get it to go thru the pins the right way to carry all 10.

Cliffnote: I dont have a crystal ball.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:38 pm Post Number: #677 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
MegaMav wrote:
My answer is: Whatever it takes.


Speaking of whatever it takes. In your diary here, I dont think I've read of you balling up to the Gladiator and moving way in the oil. I cannot tell how viable this is for you because you taped all strikes, but keeping this ball in the oil, playing deeper could be an option you can explore in practice.

Jackpot on more straighter angles, ball down to the Rack Attack if needed, or if the condition is too over/under ball up to this and move in, away from the track area problem.

How viable is this? 15 at the arrows to 9/10 at the breakpoint looks OK.
I just dont know how your less that good shots are. Are they completely out the window?

Bottom line: You still need to match up with surface in practice, doesnt matter what ball it is.
If practice time is short, you'll have to learn to think fast!


_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:47 pm Post Number: #678 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8, 2012
Posts: 749
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:
My answer is: Whatever it takes.

If the ball is still hooking and goes behind the headpin, more surface.
If the ball rolls forward too early on a bad angle, less surface or ball down.
Its up to you the bowler to read what is going on, on the lane and make the adjustments necessary to get the ball to the pocket, then get it to go thru the pins the right way to carry all 10.

Cliffnote: I dont have a crystal ball.

I guess what I am saying is: Is there an optimal, ideal target line on the lane that you would like to see me playing with the Jackpot?
If there is, then I can try the Jackpot there and adjust surface as needed until it works on that line.

It seems more complicated to fish around on the lane until I find an "ok" reaction and then adjust the surface until that reaction goes from "ok" to perfect.
But I guess that is what you really want right?

Wow, reactive balls are hard... :o

With urethane it is easy.
Play the oil line all the time.
If the ball does not hook enough, move right a tad, if it hooks too much, move left a tad.
Enjoy the pocket. :lol:

I have barely used the Gladiator at all and never in competition.
But I have it back to stock 2000 grit.
At least at Kearny, I could go 14-10 with it and it turned around and slapped the pocket silly.
But Kearny on the weekend is low volume.
See the video at 1:00 for those two 14-10 shots.
Ok, I will bring it and see what it does.

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:59 pm Post Number: #679 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts

Joined: January 24, 2012
Posts: 456
Reputation: 69
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:

I disagree with you.
A light reactive cover with a shiny finish and a lower diff layout on a tall core to keep the bowtie tight will allow the ball to hook for longer, giving him a better angle on the pocket.
He has no tilt and excessive rotation, we need to elongate the hook zone for good ball motion.
Going with a more aggressive ball will make his ball finish hooking earlier and have a poor angle on the pocket.
I sent him a ball and it matched up well enough once for him to set a high series.
He just needs to match the surface up each week.
Watch his Gladiator video to see how a bigger cover and core interact with his lane surface playing to the friction.


When I watched his Gladiator video I see a ball skid and snap. It needs more surface. I watched a video of him throwing his Dark Legend Solid at what he says is hand swirled 1000 and it's still skidding too far down lane. The only balls that aren't over skidding on his YouTube channel are his ultra-low grit urethane balls.

I get that you're trying to get him to elongate the hook zone with low diff balls, but it's not working. Outside of the high set on 7/9 where he played the JP up 2nd arrow and moved 1 board all night, he's getting over under from the JP every time he uses it.

Following your own advice here, viewtopic.php?p=92742#p92742, shouldn't he ball up, add surface, and blend out the transition to the dry?

Nord, what happened to the Guru Supreme? You posted a video on 8/21/16 to your YouTube channel with it.

_________________
James Talley


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 pm Post Number: #680 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4245
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 931
Reputation Power: 10
The Gladiator is your only viable option for when either when the backends get tight from carrydown or the dry is too dry and you have to move completely in. Your zero tilt is a problem controlling friction, I would not advise using the Gladiator and throwing at the friction, it will just flip over too early and result in a poor angle at the pocket.

Remember, we're not just attempting to hit the pocket, you can already do that with urethane.
We're attempting to hit the pocket and carry all 10 pins, something you struggle to do with urethane on the oil line.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 717 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36  Next

Board index » General Forums » General Bowling


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: