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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:01 pm Post Number: #541 Post
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I think literally nobody has suggested playing the house shit straight up the boards. a few of the suggestions have suggested that only in reply to you refusing to project the ball to the right from the oil.

I also think you are nowhere near as accurate as you think you are with all your reported misses on easy spares.

I'd also suggest that when you get a flat ten. stay in the same spot and throw it the same. flat tens are expected with your speed, rev rate and angle. you are nowhere near accurate enough to make a mini adjustment to get it flush with the breakpoint area your ball roll gives you


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:53 pm Post Number: #542 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
You are dealing with 2 different centers and 2 different house shots, they cannot be approached to score the same way.

Actually three different centers.
- Kearny = Flood/Big Ben/Pro Anvilane
- Surf = Light/medium, good friction, clean sides and backend
- Parkway = Heavy/Medium, lanes are not stripped for league, they are oiled over free play only 2/3 up the lane, backends are left as is.

Currently I play all the houses the same way with urethane.
The only thing I change is how far right I stand and how closed down my angle up first arrow has to be.
The more oil, the more direct I go and the less oil the less direct, but I still go direct and try to keep the ball high flush.
Usually 10 1/2 is the perfect line to guarantee a high flush strike.
It mostly is just matching up the ball strength and speed to get the roll at the end of the pattern that lets the ball go through the pins.

So now I need to start trying to understand how the Jackpot can be pushed right and come back.
That is a very hard shot for me since I am so used to going perfectly straight at everything.
But, I guess I got to work at this to add depth to my rather shallow game.

Below is the Nord "A" Game with urethane:


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:29 pm Post Number: #543 Post
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Was reading an article online about House Shots vs. Sport Shots and came to this statement:

Quote:
I see a ton of bowlers who easily average 210 or better on a house shot, but average 150s or 160s on PBA shots.
This is simply because tougher shots put a premium on accuracy and consistency where as a house shot makes you want to “grip it and rip it”.
You develop bad habits sometimes, when you don’t need to be accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:32 pm Post Number: #544 Post
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Nord wrote:
Was reading an article online about House Shots vs. Sport Shots and came to this statement:


Quote:
I see a ton of bowlers who easily average 210 or better on a house shot, but average 150s or 160s on PBA shots.
This is simply because tougher shots put a premium on accuracy and consistency where as a house shot makes you want to “grip it and rip it”.
You develop bad habits sometimes, when you don’t need to be accurate.


FYI for everyone this where you can read the whole article, it from Tamer bowling and called "House Shot vs PBA or Sport Shot":
http://tamerbowling.com/house-shot-vs-pba-or-sport-shot/

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:29 am Post Number: #545 Post
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I mentioned this article because when I was bowling at Poway last year the owner let us put down any sport shots we wanted for our weekly scratch tournament.

I found I could play them all about the same, just roll right at the pocket.
If I missed right the ball would stay right and if I missed inside it would hook left and go high or Brooklyn.
But a good shot would hold the line and react very predictably and carry.
I was basically playing only the end of the pattern with these sport shots.
I just wanted to get my ball to the place that it would move into the pocket.
I found these shots to be more consistent and easier, at least for me, than house shots.
I was able to use my Grizz urethane on these sport shots and it rolled up fine.
I was able to score in the 190s and 200's on them.
I really loved bowling on them and wished that these were our normal league house shots at Poway.

The patterns were:

Phase 1
Pattern Distance: 36 feet
Pattern Ratio (max): 2.3:1

The Edge
Pattern Distance: 40 feet
Pattern Ratio (max): 1.7:1

Phantom
Pattern Distance: 43 feet
Pattern Ratio (max): 1.3:1

The Max
Pattern Distance: 48 feet
Pattern Ratio (max): 2.9:1

I think it was mentioned before why I do better on these sport shots than I do on house shots?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:08 am Post Number: #546 Post
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This coming Sunday, at the Kearny Flood, I am taking the Jackpot and I am going to work with that extreme outside line.
I am already sucking there anyway trying to play my second arrow "A Game" with so much oil, so what have I got to lose?
I will also bring my True Motion with AL (I won't say it!) which I took up to a shiny 2000 grit to also play with that outside line.
And I will bring my wonder ball, the Purple Hammer on the outside chance the lanes are fairly dry (very unlikely) so I can do my "A Game."

Any last minute tips/reminders on how to adjust when playing from way out there?

If I remember correctly, try some experimental shots up 6, 5, 4, 3 to see how the ball reacts.
Is it hooking fast, or getting length?
This will tell me if there is enough oil in the front to play this shot.
Once I find my line, stick with it until the ball starts to hook early and then keep my target the same and move my feet a touch left as needed to give the ball its length back and keep the shot going.

Any other tips/reminders?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:33 am Post Number: #547 Post
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Nord wrote:
This coming Sunday, at the Kearny Flood, I am taking the Jackpot and I am going to work with that extreme outside line.
I am already sucking there anyway trying to play my second arrow "A Game" with so much oil, so what have I got to lose?
I will also bring my True Motion with AL (I won't say it!) which I took up to a shiny 2000 grit to also play with that outside line.
And I will bring my wonder ball, the Purple Hammer on the outside chance the lanes are fairly dry (very unlikely) so I can do my "A Game."

Any last minute tips/reminders on how to adjust when playing from way out there?

If I remember correctly, try some experimental shots up 6, 5, 4, 3 to see how the ball reacts.
Is it hooking fast, or getting length?
This will tell me if there is enough oil in the front to play this shot.
Once I find my line, stick with it until the ball starts to hook early and then keep my target the same and move my feet a touch left as needed to give the ball its length back and keep the shot going.

Any other tips/reminders?


Leave the urethane at home.
Cut the tether.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:02 am Post Number: #548 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

Leave the urethane at home.
Cut the tether.

My beloved urethane...

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:32 pm Post Number: #549 Post
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Nord wrote:
My beloved urethane...


I think you should bring your rack attack, gladiator and jackpot and find a way in practice.
Whether it be by ball or surface. Time to start thinking fast and grabbing a pad and scuff your equipment on the spot to match up.

You should have 3 distinct reactions now.

Gladiator - Midlane
Jackpot - Benchmark
Rack Attack - Control

Figure out which shape is best that night and adjust length with a pad.
With you start with 4000 and work your way down one step at a time.

Do NOT go into any night with a game plan, learn to play what the lane gives you.
Giving up mentally and moving into 10 and cramming it in the pocket for flat and ring 10s is mindless IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:02 pm Post Number: #550 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

You should have 3 distinct reactions now.

Gladiator - Midlane
Jackpot - Benchmark
Rack Attack - Control

Figure out which shape is best that night and adjust length with a pad.
With you start with 4000 and work your way down one step at a time.

Do NOT go into any night with a game plan, learn to play what the lane gives you.

I think my head is about to explode...
Remember, you are talking to a person that is totally uncomfortable with reactive balls.
My normal experience with them has been "Why the hell did it do that? I'm putting that naughty thing back in its bag!"

I could bring pads, but remember, my Jackpot is a beautiful 4000 grit polished and my Rack is 4000 grit with no polish and the gladiator is 1000 grit dull.
I would not want to spoil the Jackpot's beautiful finish which only the pro shop can reproduce.
I have no way to raise the finish on the Rack or Jackpot, only lower them.
I could bring the Gladiator up at the lanes though.
But with four man teams I only get like 5 shots in practice, hard to learn much and adjust in such a short time.

As to a game plan, I thought you wanted me to have a game plan?
Stay away from the oil and the second arrow and find a way to play from way right.
And if no ball wants to work out there, then take the Gladiator and move way in and go over 15 or 16 out to 12 or 13 and back?

Assuming that is not what you want me to try, how, with the three balls you mentioned, do I find where I want to play in 5 or 6 shots?

Where should my first shot be thrown and with what ball?
The second shot and which ball?
And so on...

What reaction am I looking for and where?

Basically you need to be my ball rep and tell me what to do.
Since you want me to use reactive now, it is super complex now and I simply don't have the understanding to figure out all these complex ball reactions.

I am just a simple, find a ball that grips the lane and roll it right at the pocket kind of guy.

Also you forgot spares.
Which ball for spares?
I normally use the same urethane ball for all shots, but with reactive, the Rack is the only ball I have ever been able to use for spares as well.
I have not tried the Jackpot yet at spares, so don't know if it will jump away from spares.
The Gladiator will likely not hold a line or be able to hit a 10 pin.

Oh, and don't forget, I have a Dark Legend Solid at 2000 grit with pin at 3 3/8" too.

Help!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:37 pm Post Number: #551 Post
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Wow, we're learning how to bowl and think spontaneously!
If you can use the Rack Attack for spares, then use it for spares.
Play from the right if there is head oil out there, if not, move in, its simple.
Take off the urethane training wheels and actually throw yourself in the pool without the swimmies.
If the Jackpot needs a touch of 4000 to shape it up right, so be it.
Dont be obsessed with "beauty", obsess over ball motion, its much more healthy for your scores.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:12 pm Post Number: #552 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
If you can use the Rack Attack for spares, then use it for spares.
Play from the right if there is head oil out there, if not, move in, its simple.

Here is my confusion:

When you say from the right, where do you mean?
Say 3, 4, 5 and 6 is breaking hard, but 7 has hold, do I go with 7, or is that too far left for playing right?
How far left is no longer right in your mind before I make the choice to really move left?
And when I move left, how far left is left in your mind to truly be left?

I assume since you never want me to do the dumb up second arrow thing, that the second arrow zone should be off limits in my mind.
So any kind of up 11, 10, 9 and 8 should be totally off limits for me.

So I envision zones around first arrow and third arrow.
Is that the proper thinking for me when using reactive?

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High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:59 pm Post Number: #553 Post
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Quick question:

I was watching the Women's US Open and Kulick was commenting on the change in Erin McCarthy's game.
She said Erin increased her ball speed and this has allowed her to to score much better on the tour.
She said the extra mph has allowed her to use stronger equipment and tighten her angles to the pocket which results in greater pin carry.

Stronger+Tighter=Pin Carry

What is Kulick talking about exactly?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:06 am Post Number: #554 Post
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Think spontaneously, dont have a game plan.
I gave you a ball to figure it out with in the Jackpot.
Match the ball motion up to where you can get it to the pocket with an angle wider than board 10.
That may mean moving your feet inside of 10 and throwing outside of 10.
The ball should flare enough to give less flare in the front of the lane and more flare in the back.
Its the equivalency of a 80 x 5.25 x 45 layout for a 3/4 roller.
Perfect for low/no tilt to get the ball down the lane with easy length and control on the backend.
Avoid 3 3/8" layouts unless you're bowling on absolute soup and want the ball to tip up and roll with virtually no hook zone.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:58 am Post Number: #555 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
Think spontaneously, dont have a game plan.
I gave you a ball to figure it out with in the Jackpot.
Match the ball motion up to where you can get it to the pocket with an angle wider than board 10.
That may mean moving your feet inside of 10 and throwing outside of 10.
The ball should flare enough to give less flare in the front of the lane and more flare in the back.
Its the equivalency of a 80 x 5.25 x 45 layout for a 3/4 roller.
Perfect for low/no tilt to get the ball down the lane with easy length and control on the backend.

Ok, that makes a little more sense to me.
I can play right of 10 board anywhere that seems to work best.
I will likely be getting the ball to float a little right and come back.
Nothing extreme, just what it takes.
MegaMav wrote:
Avoid 3 3/8" layouts unless you're bowling on absolute soup and want the ball to tip up and roll with virtually no hook zone.

So a 3 3/8" layout does not produce more backend, it actually produces a straighter ball motion?
Early hook with layoff?

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High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:42 am Post Number: #556 Post
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Nord wrote:
So a 3 3/8" layout does not produce more backend, it actually produces a straighter ball motion?
Early hook with layoff?


More midlane, flat angle to the pocket in most situations.
Only use on long patterns with oil volume in your situation, you'll need to play closer to the pocket.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:34 pm Post Number: #557 Post
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk-FpVYgk44 ... btjnufujs2

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:43 am Post Number: #558 Post
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Nord House Shot Report from the Kearny Flood:

Tonight was the position round for the first half.
My team was in 4th place.
I was feeling anxiety all day since I woke up.
The prospect of taking only reactive balls, like MegaMav suggested and not urethane, was driving me crazy.
My experience to this point with reactive has only been failure and frustration.
Not having even one urethane ball for insurance if everything went off the rails was just too hard to live with.
So tonight I brought my Purple Hammer and the Jackpot.
I did not bring the Gladiator or Rack Attack.
I wanted to just focus on one reactive ball and figure out how to get it to work or not, and if it was a fail, then have something I am comfortable with to fall back on.

I got to the lanes early and was able to bowl two practice games on fresh oil that the oil man just put down for league.
I started with the Jackpot.
I explored up 5, 6 and 7 to start.
The reaction was not good.
The Jackpot either did not want to hook, or hook slowly and weakly, sometimes going high, or other times going light.
I was not getting any proper backend or strong move to the pocket.
It was puzzling to me.
So I pulled out my Purple and rolled it up 6 and it over hooked.
I tried 7 and same thing.
8, same thing.
It would not hold the line.
I then tried up second arrow and the Purple labored and would not roll up.
Odd...

I went back to the Jackpot, trying again 5, 6, 7 and even 8.
I tried direct, pushing a bit left to right and standing further right and aiming it.
Very, very touchy with over under.

I learned nothing about what I should do.
I then moved to our competition pair and in warmup tried the same shots and got the same results.
I was shaking my head.
This was not looking good.
So in desperation I put my right foot on 10 and rolled the Jackpot directly up second arrow.
I hit the line perfectly, the Jackpot twirled up second arrow and when it exited the pattern it went hard left, not a jump, but a hard continuous move with a lot of control.
10 back hard!
Wtf?!
Ok, let me try that again.
Same result!
Ok, fine, MegaMav would not approve, but I have a very nice shot up second arrow with the Jackpot.
So that is what I did all night.
I only had to move my foot a board left in game 3 on the left lane and a half a board left on the right lane.
I never moved my target.

If I missed inside the Jackpot would take off on me and go Brooklyn and sometimes strike.
If I missed a board right, no problem, Jackpot came back for a strike.
If I missed two boards right, no problem, Jackpot came back and could most of the time get the light mixer.

The result?

Omg, omg, omg...

My all time high series, a 667!
I blew my Nord 300 counter's mind with 18 total strikes!
The Jackpot was simply magical.
It was like a magic ball.
I just had to relax, extend smoothly through the release with an easy follow through and the Jackpot would hold the line up second arrow like a laser guided missile.
And when it got to the back it moved into that pocket like I have never seen before from any ball I have ever used before.
Also, I used the Jackpot for all spares and it was perfect.
Though I did miss a couple of spares, such as a 10 pin by missing a touch inside, which caused the Jackpot to hook away and miss the 10 pin by an inch left.

I did not change the surface on the Jackpot, polished was perfect.

MegaMav, I just don't know what to say.
How can I thank you???
I finally, finally felt like a bowler.
I made good shots and was rewarded every time.
Even slightly bad shots were rewarded.
We won all four and twice I needed the first hit in the 10th and got it for the win.
I averaged 222 with the Jackpot tonight on the Kearny flood!

True, I did play up second arrow, but that seemed a very dependable and easily repeatable shot that paid dividends.
Not sure why right of second arrow was so touchy for me.
In the 6th frame of the third game I made a perfect shot on the left lane up second arrow and it went high and left the big four.
Next time up on the right lane, for safety I moved my foot left a half a board and the Jackpot came up perfectly for a strike.
Next time up on the left lane I moved a full board left with my foot and the Jackpot was back in the pocket for a strong strike.
That is the extent that I had to move tonight.
The other team was all high rev bowlers who were tearing up the lane, but none of them were playing on my line, they were all left of me, crossing my line out to 5 or thereabouts.
So I had second arrow all to myself all night.
I felt the Jackpot liked oil.
It skidded well and held the line perfectly and when it hit the backend it just rolled hard with no jump.

MegaMav, the 1.5" 45 degree down layout was perfect for me and this ball.
It was super clean, but in the back it got real busy.
It was a joy to watch that ball going so straight and waiting to go.
Then when it unleashed, wow...

The Purple was never taken off the rack, except when it was all over to put it back in the bag.

I am committing to this magic ball now.
I will use it tomorrow at Parkway.

Any explanation of what I experienced tonight would be greatly welcome.

Oh, and I just noticed I made a mistake, I actually had 19 strikes, not 18.
I guess I lost track with my counter!

Below are my series and scores.


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Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Last edited by Nord on Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:07 am Post Number: #559 Post
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"I am committing to this magic ball now.
I will use it tomorrow at Parkway."

A recipe for disaster! How can you possibly "commit" to a particular ball at another bowling center on a different day? Magic ball?

Sometimes a get the impression that this entire thread is just here to pull our collective chains.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:26 pm Post Number: #560 Post
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Nord wrote:
Ok, fine, MegaMav would not approve, but I have a very nice shot up second arrow with the Jackpot.
So that is what I did all night.
I only had to move my foot a board left in game 3 on the left lane and a half a board left on the right lane.
I never moved my target.


Nord, the most important thing here is, you're trying different things to match up on the lane.
You're seeing what looks good, and what doesnt. Thats a big thing.
You didnt just "stick to the game plan" trying to make something work, and I expect that to happen when your A game doesnt work, you try the B game.

Nord wrote:
MegaMav, I just don't know what to say.
How can I thank you???
I finally, finally felt like a bowler.


My pleasure Nord.
Im happy you achieved with a Radical ball and can see the benefit of using reactive.
I think if you somehow find a night where 5 and out works, you'll find that score to be closer to 700, maybe more.
I think next time, scooch even further right during practice, outside of 5. Try 3 for a shot or two, see what happens.
You probably could have shot 279 or 290 that last game too.
Big things are happening, I hope you're excited for this change!

Remember, polished balls need maintenance too.
Keep refreshing the shine every 6 games or so, or whenever you can see the track dull up.

When selecting new balls, remember, lighter reactive covers with tall, symmetrical cores.

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“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


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