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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:13 am Post Number: #521 Post
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Nord Surf Bowl House Shot Report:

The Jackpot was not ready for Surf so I just did my normal second arrow with urethane shot.
Brought the Purple and Widow.
The volume was a solid medium and my balls in warmup were pretty slick after a few shots.
I went back and forth between the Purple and Widow and neither ball was much better than the other, just a little different.
The Widow hooks early and lays off, while the Purple goes longer and has more back end.

I started with the Widow and used that for game 1 and 2 and switched to the Purple for game 3 because the Widow did not seem to have as much recovery from a miss right.
Due to my late timing, I almost never miss left, it is always a miss right, so I prefer a ball that can get back to protect me.

The key has been more ball speed, projection and follow through.
This has given me more accuracy, heavier roll, more hitting power and most importantly, hold when going right at the pocket.

The result?

Tonight was the second time in my bowling career that I bowled three 200 games in a row!
And, in those three games I only had one open, a 4-5-7 in the first frame of the 10th in game 1.
I have attached my score sheet below.
Oh, and I got a Nord 300, I actually got 14 strikes.
I felt I could have struck more if I had a ball that had a touch more recovery from misses right and had a tad more backend pop.
I had to be careful to get the urethane balls into a roll or they would not go through the pins.
I plan on using the Jackpot for the first time this Sunday at Kearny in league.
I pick it up tomorrow night.

I have to say, though I am still playing my "A" game for the moment, I have greatly improved that game strategy due to projection and follow through.
This was a big change in my game that is paying dividends.
Can the Jackpot be the key to push my scoring even higher???


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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:12 pm Post Number: #522 Post
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Your doing better then me, i haven't had all 3 200's in 2 weeks. Last week heath was a big deal but no excuse this week. Seems you are picking up your spares to get that. I missed a 10 pin in first game by like a centimeter to the left. Then 3rd game left a 1 2 4 10 after throwing it wide. Then like 2 frames after that missed 2 back to back 10 pins by letting the ball fly off the hand to the right and into the gutter.

Seems you got what you need to do done, I would think. Haven't missed a 10 pin in probably 8-10 games before this.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:25 pm Post Number: #523 Post
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Nord wrote:

The key has been more ball speed, projection and follow through.
This has given me more accuracy, heavier roll, more hitting power and most importantly, hold when going right at the pocket.


Without pulling down on it!
That is the key. Rolling it off your hand and extending.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:54 pm Post Number: #524 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

Without pulling down on it!
That is the key. Rolling it off your hand and extending.

Right!
I have gotten the timing correct now and there is no pain or strain.
Last night and today I feel fine, no soreness.
Also, remember, I am doing all this higher scoring with urethane, which has its limitations on house shots.
If I can get matched up well with a reactive ball, I think I can push those scores even higher.
I get the Jackpot tonight.

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Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:05 am Post Number: #525 Post
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Nord wrote:
Nord Surf Bowl House Shot Report:

The Jackpot was not ready for Surf so I just did my normal second arrow with urethane shot.
Brought the Purple and Widow.
The volume was a solid medium and my balls in warmup were pretty slick after a few shots.
I went back and forth between the Purple and Widow and neither ball was much better than the other, just a little different.
The Widow hooks early and lays off, while the Purple goes longer and has more back end.

I started with the Widow and used that for game 1 and 2 and switched to the Purple for game 3 because the Widow did not seem to have as much recovery from a miss right.
Due to my late timing, I almost never miss left, it is always a miss right, so I prefer a ball that can get back to protect me.

The key has been more ball speed, projection and follow through.
This has given me more accuracy, heavier roll, more hitting power and most importantly, hold when going right at the pocket.

The result?

Tonight was the second time in my bowling career that I bowled three 200 games in a row!
And, in those three games I only had one open, a 4-5-7 in the first frame of the 10th in game 1.
I have attached my score sheet below.
Oh, and I got a Nord 300, I actually got 14 strikes.
I felt I could have struck more if I had a ball that had a touch more recovery from misses right and had a tad more backend pop.
I had to be careful to get the urethane balls into a roll or they would not go through the pins.
I plan on using the Jackpot for the first time this Sunday at Kearny in league.
I pick it up tomorrow night.

I have to say, though I am still playing my "A" game for the moment, I have greatly improved that game strategy due to projection and follow through.
This was a big change in my game that is paying dividends.
Can the Jackpot be the key to push my scoring even higher???


You've come a long way!

Your thinking about a ball that will recover from misses to the right is understandable. Rather than trying to make up for late timing with a ball that will make it back to the pocket on errant releases, focus on getting the ball into the swing path earlier. If you think about it, what is going to happen to the shape of the ball when the shot is a little bit left? Or, even the pocket, the angle will be such that you'll be plagued by solid tens.

If you can develop "early" timing, the ball will naturally tend to be higher in the pocket, and your carrying percentage will be even greater.

Remember, where others are trying to get their ball into a roll, your shot is already rolling. Your pocket angle is substantially different from theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:22 am Post Number: #526 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:
You've come a long way!

Indeed I have, fairly quickly.
About a month and a half.
I never thought it would ever happen honestly.
But some on this forum had faith in me (Yourself and MegaMav) and gave me good pointers that have paid major dividends.
And I will not stop there.


TomaHawk wrote:
If you can develop "early" timing, the ball will naturally tend to be higher in the pocket, and your carrying percentage will be even greater.
Remember, where others are trying to get their ball into a roll, your shot is already rolling. Your pocket angle is substantially different from theirs.

Yep.
Next on the list of things to change about my game.
I am considering going to 5 step, but pushing the ball out on the first step, like I do now with my 4 step, but the 5 steps will get the ball back earlier and hopefully correct my late timing to correct timing.
Thoughts?

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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:40 am Post Number: #527 Post
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Developing a five step approach will definitely enable you to get the ball into the proper position in the swing arc. Actually, you will not have to change the manner in which you move the ball. You will still be able to move it upward to start. Adding the fifth step will provide the necessary support when doing so.

Right now, if you move the ball upward sooner, your upper body will be inclined to lean forward too much. That would start a negative chain reaction throughout the approach.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:30 am Post Number: #528 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:
Developing a five step approach will definitely enable you to get the ball into the proper position in the swing arc. Actually, you will not have to change the manner in which you move the ball. You will still be able to move it upward to start. Adding the fifth step will provide the necessary support when doing so.

Right now, if you move the ball upward sooner, your upper body will be inclined to lean forward too much. That would start a negative chain reaction throughout the approach.

Cool.
I will wait for the 5 step to let the timing correct itself.
Finally, progress!
I can't express strongly enough how great it feels to finally be moving up in the game.

When I started tennis I didn't know what I was doing.
I took one lesson which was ok.
I watched the players on TV and eventually emulated Borg.
I practiced like crazy and played as much as I could.
But it took two years before the muscle memory and ability to hit the ball hard and accurately started to kick in.
This is a common expectation in hard sports like tennis that require amazing timing.
Expect two years before you are really having fun.
After I played for 5 years I made a drastic change in my game that resulted in me moving from low B player to mid A player.
For those that don't understand tennis, going from B to A is huge.
The progress I have made in the last month is greater than the progress I have made in bowling in 6 years.
It is huge!
And I feel I am on the verge of a even greater breakthrough.

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Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:44 am Post Number: #529 Post
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Ok, picked up the Jackpot tonight.
It looks beautiful!
45 degrees down and pin at 1 1/2".
4000 grit polished.
Will try it Sunday at Kearny.
Cross your fingers...

While I was at the pro shop I told my PSO about my 627 series at Surf Bowl yesterday and my three 200 plus games.
I mentioned to him that, even though I bowled very well, I was somewhat unsatisfied because I had problems getting my urethane balls to roll up correctly and had to make a lot of spares.
I truly felt I could have struck more, but sometimes the ball would simply not get a good roll and would just slide down the lane and leave a flat 10 or 7.

My PSO said: "Yes, urethane is very sensitive to release mistakes and will punish you for the slightest error. With reactive you can really screw up, as happens every night in league with the lower average players, and still be ok. Not so with urethane. Once you transition to reactive I expect your scoring to be even higher since the balls will protect you."

Here is the Jackpot, ready for action!


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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:05 am Post Number: #530 Post
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Nord House Shot report on Kearny:

Kearny, Kearny, Kearny...

Wow...

Just when you think you are getting good you meet "The Flood" and all bets are off.
They did it again, a mountain of oil.
I brought the Midnight Scorcher at 800 grit, the Purple at 1000 grit and the Jackpot at 4000 grit polished.
I tried a few shots in warmup with the Jackpot, up second arrow, up first arrow and one shot in between.
These are 4 man teams, so you only get a few shots in practice and I needed to get my urethane balls wet and lined up for play.
The Jackpot got a ton of length and then reacted in the back, but not violently.

I started out with the Scorcher in game 1 and it just wouldn't roll up on that oil.
I used it to frame 7 then pulled out the Jackpot for a couple of throws.
I struck in the 8th even though I missed two boards right, but the ball came back and tickled light and they fell down.
My next shot scooted and didn't roll up.
It came down to the 10th and I needed the first hit as anchor to win but I did not get it.
Closed with a 169.

Game 2 I pulled out the Purple and moved right and started stuffing it at the pocket.
I was projecting and had higher ball speed and that was a detriment at Kearny because it assured the ball would not roll soon enough.
I had to start backing off the speed but still let the follow through come through.
What happens when you are struggling to strike is you start missing spares too.
Your game just gets out of whack because nothing is working.
Well, it came down to the 10th again.
I needed to strike out to win.
I slowed my ball speed and rolled it right up 10 1/2 and it sat and struck.
I was able to repeat and I struck out!
Closed with a 194.

In Game 3 I continued with the Purple, but now it was leaving that damn 10 pin every fracken time!
It was all 9, 9, 9, 9, 9...
Even on shots that looked high flush, 9!
We had a good lead because I was making all my spares this time and by the 10th I did not need to do any work.
I made a shot right up second arrow, the ball rolled right in and 9!
I made the spare and pulled out the Jackpot for the final shot.
I thought for a second and assumed it would have more backend, so I moved my feet 1 1/2 left and made the same slower up second arrow shot.
The Jackpot twirled right up second arrow looking like it would never move, but as soon as it exited the pattern it rolled up and moved left, smoothly, not a jump, and 10 back!
Wow, that was nice!
Closed with a 181.

Of the 8 people on our pair, my 544 was the highest series on this tough condition.
Three pairs down there was a lot of noise.
Some of the real high average bowlers were doing terrible and were cursing and yelling at each other.
One yelled out: "I just bowled a 489 series F'r!" and one of the other guys yelled back, "F' you, I just bowled a 142!"

So I was not alone in being challenged by the oil volume tonight. ;)

Ok, the Jackpot felt really good in the hand.
The pin at 1 1/2 gives it wonderful projection and straightness, which I like.
It seems I can aim the ball at the pocket and it will go right at it and have a controllable backend.
It actually feels very similar to my Purple in how it comes off the hand.
I can stay smooth with it and give it time to roll up without forcing it, just like my Purple.
I think these two will be a nice combo.
Jackpot for strikes and Purple for spares, and when the Jackpot starts jumping, I can ball down to the Purple for some control.

Tomorrow at Parkway I will try the Jackpot in earnest.
I will get there early and roll two practice games to see how it does.
My new arsenal is now the Purple, Widow and Jackpot.
Based on the few throws I made with it, I think it will kill the pins if I can understand how to use it correctly.

Will give you a Jackpot report tomorrow night after Parkway league.

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Axis Rotation: 90
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Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:30 am Post Number: #531 Post
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Nord Parkway House Shot Report:

First the results, we got our butts kicked!
But, we both bowled well.
My partner bowled a 694 series and I a 583.
But the other team was composed of 175 average bowlers.
One of them was out of control and bowled a 657 series!
The other a 565 series.
What can you do right?

I did not use the Jackpot.
I used my Purple and did the second arrow thing.
Got my Nord 300.
Had a 202, 191 and 190.
Why did I use Purple?

I got there early for practice and was put on the pair adjacent to the pair I would be bowling on tonight.
The oil man just did the lanes.
I pulled out the Jackpot and immediately tried up 5, 4 and 6.
The ball seemed to labor up 5 and 4 and would not come back.
But up 6 the ball would get down and sweep in smoothly with hold and hit high flush and strike!
If I missed inside a board I had hold and still a strike.
If I missed right a board, then it did not come back.

I also tried up second arrow and ball slid and would not grab.
Up 8 also did not want to roll up.

Then when we moved right to our pair I tried the Jackpot in warm up once again on 4, 5 and 6.
Zero hold and the ball rolled out almost instantly!
All its side roll disappeared about 1/4 of the way up the lane and the ball just rolled end over end and hit weakly or crossed over.
I moved the target left, but then there was too much oil and the ball would not grab.
I was confused and put the Jackpot back in the bag.
I then pulled out the Widow and gave it a good swing up second arrow and it didn't grab early enough.
On the next shot I slowed the speed up, but now the Widow died out and flat 10'd.
I pulled out the Purple and backed off the speed and it rolled up well and could strike and carry the 10.

What I have found is that now, with my greater projection and follow through, my ball speed has come up and prevented balls from rolling on more oil.
I am seeing on average between 11.77 and 12.66 at the pins now.
On drier conditions I can use this speed and it helps carry a lot, but on more oil it hurts me with my urethane balls.

But back to the Jackpot, I must admit I am a little confused on how to use this ball.
I am not sure what to do with it yet.
It seems weak and strong at the same time.
It seems like it needs oil to hold when playing out, but it needs dry when playing in.
It is kinda touchy.
Perhaps you have some ideas on how I should be using it and where I should be using it on the lanes?
Its reaction is so unlike any ball I have ever thrown before that it confuses me.
I am so used to urethane, where I just roll the ball and it grabs throughout the length of the lane and smoothly moves left.

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Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:40 am Post Number: #532 Post
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You should be moving your feet, not your target.

I’ve also recently learned to aim at the dots before the arrows. Holy cow what a difference!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:41 am Post Number: #533 Post
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GrumpyCatFace wrote:
You should be moving your feet, not your target.

How does this fit in to what I stated earlier about the Jackpot?
Where on the lane should I have played?
What target?
3, 4, 5 and 6 were instant rollout, no length at all, ball turned over the second it left my hand, but left of 6 it did not want to pick up at all as the oil was too heavy.

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Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:04 am Post Number: #534 Post
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It means you should have projected the ball from left to right. from the oil into the dry. crazy concept I know :)


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:31 am Post Number: #535 Post
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gunso wrote:
It means you should have projected the ball from left to right. from the oil into the dry. crazy concept I know :)


Correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:50 pm Post Number: #536 Post
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Nord wrote:
How does this fit in to what I stated earlier about the Jackpot?
Where on the lane should I have played?
What target?
3, 4, 5 and 6 were instant rollout, no length at all, ball turned over the second it left my hand, but left of 6 it did not want to pick up at all as the oil was too heavy.


You need to pick a target - usually the 10 board - and set your feet in a given spot - usually slide foot on the center dot. Then shoot and see where it goes. Adjust your feet a few boards left or right, as needed, but keep the same target.

When you’re lined up correctly, the ball will slide out to around the 5-8 board, hit the dry and come into the pocket. That’s how you find the breakpoint consistently.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:44 pm Post Number: #537 Post
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Nord wrote:
How does this fit in to what I stated earlier about the Jackpot?
Where on the lane should I have played?
What target?
3, 4, 5 and 6 were instant rollout, no length at all, ball turned over the second it left my hand, {That's because your in the DRY} but left of 6 it did not want to pick up at all as the oil was too heavy. { That's the WALL of oil}



After 536 posts, still, the concept of playing the THS w/ Reactive is not getting thru to you.

Bds. 3-6, as you saw, is the friction zone. Those will be the breakpoint 38-43 ft. downlane. All this parallel up/with the boards on a THS will find the WALL of oil/cliff as you did. NOT the way to play the lanes.
Try this visual - pics worth a 1000 words, in this case 536 posts.

Attachment:
6-light hit-dead.jpg


Attachment:
12-10-4-jackpot money.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:17 pm Post Number: #538 Post
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imagonman wrote:


After 536 posts, still, the concept of playing the THS w/ Reactive is not getting thru to you.

Bds. 3-6, as you saw, is the friction zone. Those will be the breakpoint 38-43 ft. downlane. All this parallel up/with the boards on a THS will find the WALL of oil/cliff as you did. NOT the way to play the lanes.
Try this visual - pics worth a 1000 words, in this case 536 posts.
Attachment:
6-light hit-dead.jpg


Attachment:
12-10-4-jackpot money.jpg

Perfect explanation, thank you.
But...the reason I was confused is because I thought what was wanted was for me was to keep my angles as closed as possible and to go as straight as I can due to my unique release characteristics?
I thought the idea behind the Jackpot was to get me way right on my own island and roll straight up the outside and let it sweep left, not to move left and throw right and try to get it to bounce back.
Normally when I try that I rapidly get into under/over effects.
Just curious.

Below is what I actually saw last night when trying to play the Jackpot up 6:


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Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Last edited by Nord on Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:30 pm Post Number: #539 Post
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Nord wrote:
Perfect explanation, thank you.
But...the reason I was confused is because I thought what was wanted was for me was to keep my angles as closed as possible and to go as straight as I can due to my unique release characteristics?
I thought the idea behind the Jackpot was to get me way right on my own island and roll straight up the outside and let it sweep left, not to move left and throw right and try to get it to bounce back.
Normally when I try that I rapidly get into under/over effects.
Just curious.


With that ball and layout you should be able to do both within reason.
Its not going hook in the soup and its not going to be weak in the dry.
We've been trying to beat it into you that you need to use inside 10 to get the ball to skate and outside 10 to get the ball to hook.
I didnt say the Jackpot was for outside 5 only but could be an option for out there when there is head oil.
If your ball is hook set in 25 feet, there is no head oil, move in.
I want to make one thing perfectly clear, you are not unique, you're a full roller like a few still left out there and you have no tilt.
I treat you like a no tilt bowler with a very limited range of flare safe layouts, like most high track, no tilt bowlers.

You are dealing with 2 different centers and 2 different house shots, they cannot be approached to score the same way.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:36 pm Post Number: #540 Post
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Nord wrote:
Perfect explanation, thank you.
But...the reason I was confused is because I thought what was wanted was for me was to keep my angles as closed as possible and to go as straight as I can due to my unique release characteristics?

As Meg stated you're not that unique, different than the more modern releases, yes. Closed angles, NO. This is not the US Open pattern on the fresh. THS is all about finding the friction and OPENING angles. It's built in to the THS. Find the DRY, find the Oil CLIFF, then cross that CLIFF w/ angle to the DRY. It's that simple.

I thought the idea behind the Jackpot was to get me way right on my own island and roll straight up the outside and let it sweep left, not to move left and throw right and try to get it to bounce back.
Normally when I try that I rapidly get into under/over effects.

Again as Meg said, that will work IF there is sufficient Head Oil on the outside enabling you to get some Skid out there. Within reason as well. As you saw w/ little to no oil outside of 8 ball sets NOW and off to the left it went.


Just curious.


Well Steve, being a full roller you're limited on layouts & hand positions/ release. Your hand is already on the side of the ball with near 90* rotation & very low tilt. Strong reactive covers from way right in the dry will grab NOW, as you saw. Burn up all their energy & hit like doo-doo. The over/under is from missing or playing to close to the CLIFF w/ insufficient angle. (i.e. - too straight. )

Below is what happened to you up 8 in the oil cliff. Ball never got thru the skid phase soon enough into the hook too late & not into the roll at all.
Attachment:
up 8 in the oil SKID City.jpg


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Last edited by imagonman on Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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