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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:40 pm Post Number: #441 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
You "deserve" carry? Really?

As I've said before, you throw a full-roller with a traditional grip, and you really don't want to vary your shot from the second arrow. What about that says that you deserve to carry?

I thought you were a coach?
That you worked for Bowling this month, which BTW, I have a subscription to?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:43 pm Post Number: #442 Post
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Nord wrote:
Not embarrassed at all, my youtube bowling channel is a testament to my non-embarrassment.
It is just a matter of getting the tripod, camera, balls and getting to the Kearny lanes 20 miles away when they don't have tournaments going on on the weekends, as was the case this last weekend.
I will try again this Saturday and do the shot sequence for MegaMav.

I will mention that a few hours after bowling last night my shoulder was sore as was the tendon in my arm where it connects to the bicep.
The greater follow through is putting more stress on them.
Trying to raise the arm up higher takes some strength/muscle.
If I am more bent forward at the foul line, then it is hard to get that arm up.
Try it, bend over forward and then try to raise your arm above your chin, pretty hard huh?
But, if I am more upright at the line, then the arm comes up easier with less strain.
I have to remember to stay more upright.

If you use muscle to increase the length of the follow-through, you are NOT doing it right. Cutting it like Stu and going all the way through like Clara Guerrero shouldn't be any difference at all. Accelerating at release, to force more revs, that will use muscles. Increasing ball speed by muscling the swing will also use muscles. Letting the follow-through go higher should not... Your arm is already moving forward at release, then upwards, but without a ball. If you can release the ball, and swing it, following through properly shouldn't make a difference in the use of muscles.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:01 pm Post Number: #443 Post
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Nord wrote:
I thought you were a coach?
That you worked for Bowling this month, which BTW, I have a subscription to?


He writes for Bowling This Month. He is not employed by them.

There are a "thousand" of people that call themselves a coach. Doesn't mean they are really one.

If your not happy with how he interacts with you, I suggest emailing BTM.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:48 pm Post Number: #444 Post
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JJakobsen wrote:
If you use muscle to increase the length of the follow-through, you are NOT doing it right. Cutting it like Stu and going all the way through like Clara Guerrero shouldn't be any difference at all. Accelerating at release, to force more revs, that will use muscles. Increasing ball speed by muscling the swing will also use muscles. Letting the follow-through go higher should not... Your arm is already moving forward at release, then upwards, but without a ball. If you can release the ball, and swing it, following through properly shouldn't make a difference in the use of muscles.

I believe you are right on.
Somehow, to get my arm to go higher, which feels totally and completely unnatural to me btw, it takes force of muscle to keep it going up.
Also, I tend to be bent over close to the lane as I tend to get low on release.
If I am bent over, pulling up with the arm is hard.
If I stand more erect then it is less hard.
But either way, keeping the arm going forward and up takes, for me, effort.
I must not have the timing down yet, so muscle is still involved.
I am doing it wrong, but I am trying.
I will keep working.
Pain is my guide.

Actually, I found a video I did a few years ago where I had a longer pushway with a higher follow through and faster ball speed.
The longer pushaway naturally allowed me to get a higher follow through.
For some reason I got out of this and developed a shorter pushway that resulted in the lower knuckle/curl motion in the follow through.
Now I am back to using a longer pushaway and the follow through is higher.

Check out this video and let me know if this looks more like you want me to be doing:


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Last edited by Nord on Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:54 am Post Number: #445 Post
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I am a Silver Level Certified Coach and I have written nearly 100 articles for BTM over the past 11 years. What does that have to do with my comment about what you said about "deserving" more pin carry? I would say the exact same thing to anyone who came to me for help and made a senseless comment like that. No one "deserves" anything from bowling who is not willing to do everything that he possibly can to improve.

If you and MeNoRevs believe that it's a coach's duty simply to stroke you and make you feel good about yourselves rather than telling you what you really need to hear, then you "deserve" to keep bowling the way you have been, and MeNoRevs "deserves" to carry his screen name for the rest of his bowling days!

Coaches are here to provide insight and instruction, not to make you feel all warm and cuddly!


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:09 pm Post Number: #446 Post
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Nord, imagine not having to pinch the ball during the swing. Once you realize a proper fit/grip will allow no muscling of the ball, you’ll see the carry you want. Remember it’s effortless, allow a PSO to help you. You’ll be less robotic and have less pain.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:01 pm Post Number: #447 Post
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RobMautner wrote:
I am a Silver Level Certified Coach and I have written nearly 100 articles for BTM over the past 11 years. What does that have to do with my comment about what you said about "deserving" more pin carry? I would say the exact same thing to anyone who came to me for help and made a senseless comment like that. No one "deserves" anything from bowling who is not willing to do everything that he possibly can to improve.

If you and MeNoRevs believe that it's a coach's duty simply to stroke you and make you feel good about yourselves rather than telling you what you really need to hear, then you "deserve" to keep bowling the way you have been, and MeNoRevs "deserves" to carry his screen name for the rest of his bowling days!

Coaches are here to provide insight and instruction, not to make you feel all warm and cuddly!


Nobody "deserves" pin carry. Physics is a cruel mistress and gives and takes away as she wills. :)

We may THINK we deserve carry . . . I enjoy the game far more when I take what that fickle mistress gives me (although pocket 7-10's do give me a kick in the nads . . . sigh)


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:26 pm Post Number: #448 Post
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boomer wrote:
Nobody "deserves" pin carry.

Ah, don't cheat yourself.
Sure you deserve it.
The point I was making is, if a person hits the pocket solidly time and time again with the wrong ball and never get strikes on good shots, that person deserves carry because they are doing nothing wrong.
They simply have the wrong ball.
Put a proper ball in their hand and now they get carry.

In my situation, at Parkway on Monday, I was bowling well, hitting the pocket with great accuracy and watching my urethane ball flat 10 or ring 10 or 7 pin every time.
Finally I switched to reactive and immediate triple on identical shots.
I was bowling well and deserved carry, but my ball was preventing me from being rewarded.
That's what I mean by "deserves carry."

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Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:39 pm Post Number: #449 Post
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Nord wrote:
Ah, don't cheat yourself.
Sure you deserve it.
The point I was making is, if a person hits the pocket solidly time and time again with the wrong ball and never get strikes on good shots, that person deserves carry because they are doing nothing wrong.
They simply have the wrong ball.
Put a proper ball in their hand and now they get carry.

In my situation, at Parkway on Monday, I was bowling well, hitting the pocket with great accuracy and watching my urethane ball flat 10 or ring 10 or 7 pin every time.
Finally I switched to reactive and immediate triple on identical shots.
I was bowling well and deserved carry, but my ball was preventing me from being rewarded.
That's what I mean by "deserves carry."

Wrong, they are doing something wrong. Todays game is also about selecting the correct equipment for the conditions you are facing. If you are hitting the pocket flush, but get corner pins, you are doing something wrong

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:00 pm Post Number: #450 Post
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Nord wrote:
Ah, don't cheat yourself.
Sure you deserve it.
The point I was making is, if a person hits the pocket solidly time and time again with the wrong ball and never get strikes on good shots, that person deserves carry because they are doing nothing wrong.
They simply have the wrong ball.
Put a proper ball in their hand and now they get carry.

In my situation, at Parkway on Monday, I was bowling well, hitting the pocket with great accuracy and watching my urethane ball flat 10 or ring 10 or 7 pin every time.
Finally I switched to reactive and immediate triple on identical shots.
I was bowling well and deserved carry, but my ball was preventing me from being rewarded.
That's what I mean by "deserves carry."


Sorry that makes no sense. Carry does not always mean wrong ball. Carry can be wrong part of the lane, wrong release variables. etc etc etc. Someone else could be throwing urethane and shoot 800.

I would say its quite opposite, if you keep throwing the wrong ball and keep not carrying, you deserve NOT to carry.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:17 pm Post Number: #451 Post
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With me, since I don't have a tool box filled with releases, it is almost always the wrong ball.
95% of the time I am under balled on too much oil and the ball will not roll up.
It is rare that it is too dry.
When it is too dry I have plenty of weak balls I can use.
I have few, if any, strong balls that I can rely on to roll no matter what.
So at the Big Ben flood at Kearny, none of my balls would grab.
And now that I have higher ball speed, I am noticing on wetter conditions, that I have become more speed dominant, so it is harder for me to get a ball to roll than it was before at my slower ball speed.

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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:29 pm Post Number: #452 Post
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Nord wrote:
95% of the time I am under balled on too much oil and the ball will not roll up.

Here. I just solved your problem 95% of the time. You're welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:35 pm Post Number: #453 Post
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Arkansas wrote:
Here. I just solved your problem 95% of the time. You're welcome.

That was easy!
I like that ball and its name.
Wow.

Here is another video where Mo shows the versatility of different drillings on the Dragon.
I especially like the pin near PAP layout and ball reaction.


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High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:48 pm Post Number: #454 Post
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Now this thread is going in the right direction. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:16 am Post Number: #455 Post
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Here are Randy's tips on how to play a house shot.
Where do I fall in his three categories?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:23 am Post Number: #456 Post
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The answer is: Use your eyes and use your brain.
Ignore Pedersen and his compartmentalized thought process.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:37 am Post Number: #457 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
The answer is: Use your eyes and use your brain.
Ignore Pedersen and his compartmentalized thought process.

:lol:
I knew you would say something like that.
Poor Randy.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:05 pm Post Number: #458 Post
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I don't know who Randy appeals to on a national level, but to dismiss him as being extremely knowledgeable about the game is a mistaken judgment of character.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:51 pm Post Number: #459 Post
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Nord wrote:
Ah, don't cheat yourself.
Sure you deserve it.
The point I was making is, if a person hits the pocket solidly time and time again with the wrong ball and never get strikes on good shots, that person deserves carry because they are doing nothing wrong.
They simply have the wrong ball.
Put a proper ball in their hand and now they get carry.

In my situation, at Parkway on Monday, I was bowling well, hitting the pocket with great accuracy and watching my urethane ball flat 10 or ring 10 or 7 pin every time.
Finally I switched to reactive and immediate triple on identical shots.
I was bowling well and deserved carry, but my ball was preventing me from being rewarded.
That's what I mean by "deserves carry."


I'm not cheating myself. I just know physics.

If you're hitting "the pocket" but leaving pins, there's something wrong. ANY ball, hitting the pocket correctly (for it, for its speed, for its angle) can and will strike. But most bowlers that I see that hit the pocket and don't strike don't LOOK to see WHY they didn't strike.

    Leave a 10 pin - look at the 6, look at the exit point of the ball. Maybe you need to be a touch higher or deeper to get the 6 to drive the 10.
    Leave a 4 or 7 - look at the 1. Are you driving it LEFT or BACK?
    Leave a back-row pin? Look at your exit point.

All of these things (and more - just giving a quicky) tell us what's going on, IF we take the time to LOOK.


Now - how easy it is to get to the pocket? How easy it is for us to get that ball to enter correctly? That's where different balls, different hand positions, etc. come in. Having a "proper" ball just gives us leeway.

I had what looked like a sport-ish shot this week. WOW was it tough. Everything I had was set up for dry conditions, so I COULD strike, but boy did I have to be right on. Was it the center's fault? Well, they should have told us . . . Was it the ball's fault? No. It's my responsibility.

And, no, I still didn't deserve carry when I hit the pocket. The actual pocket, proper, is pretty small.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots
 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:02 pm Post Number: #460 Post
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"Deserve carry....."

Like Clint Eastwood said in Unforgiven..."deserves got nothin to do with it!"

Do you WATCH your ball thru the pins/pindeck? A wealth of information is there for the taking, IF you look!


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