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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 7th, 2018, 10:13 pm
by Nord
RobMautner wrote:
You're exactly right! So why are you looking for the magic orb?
I wish there was a magic orb!
No, my desire is to make sure now that for my game, I am using the right type of balls with the best type of layouts and grits to optimize my carry percentage, that's all.
I have used vintage balls in the past due to love of the old game and that has kept my scoring down.
MegaMav is trying to get me into modern gear with the right layouts and grits and teach me how to use them on modern house shots so I can get that scoring up.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 8th, 2018, 12:22 am
by mrbean
just an idea, but if that ball has a good finger tip span for you why don't you try it that way and see what happens. assuming you haven't already plugged it

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 8th, 2018, 12:52 am
by MegaMav
mrbean wrote:just an idea, but if that ball has a good finger tip span for you why don't you try it that way and see what happens. assuming you haven't already plugged it
Because we're not butchers. I doubt the pitches are correct for him, he should have all gripping holes fit properly for his hand.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 8th, 2018, 2:56 am
by TomaHawk
stevespo wrote:
If nothing else, I did make TomaHawk throw up in his mouth. Truly one of my proudest moments.

Steve
Some people are easily amused. :)

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 8th, 2018, 7:45 am
by Nord
Nord House Shot report:

Tonight I bowled at Surf Bowl.

As I arrived and sat down to get my gear together the oil man came up to me.
He looked at me and said:
"Steve, you're not going to like this, we changed the oil pattern. Last week in the scratch league there were three 300 games bowled. The shot has simply been too easy. We have decided we need to make it harder. Here is what we did. We have increased the length of the pattern by an additional foot and we have increased the volume. This means that left and right of the second arrows will have more oil and not be as blocked. It seems to have worked, because the high rev players in the scratch league last night had much lower scores and had to work for it now. I am not sure what it will do for you and your league, you will have to let me know."

I then told him: "Up till now the shot you have put down here has actually been hard for me. It was very over/under for me. If I missed right the ball would overhook and if I missed inside it just wouldn't roll. I had a very small area of the lane to play in."

He replied: "I noticed that with myself as well. I throw a Pitch Black and I had to be pretty perfect with it. But last night in the scratch league I was able to roll right up 15 and it would hold and break to 17 1/2 and strike like crazy. Try this pattern and let me know what you think."

So I warmed up with 3 different balls, the Arsenal Angular Particle reactive, my True Motion Leverage at 2000 grit and my Purple Hammer also at 2000 grit.

I was working tonight on trying to get my left arm out with thumb down like MegaMav wanted and a longer pushaway, then letting the ball come down freely, which produced a higher backswing, and then letting the arm come forward freely, and then follow through higher and not cut it off at the bottom.

The reaction on the lanes was way, way differnt than before.
The lanes were playing like the sport shots I had bowled on before.
The balls were getting great length and then grabbing nicely once they left the pattern.
As at Parkway Bowl on Monday, the Purple had the best look.

I started the first game.
My line was down and in up second arrow.
My right foot on 11 1/2.
If I laid it down correctly the ball would float up 10 and then grab and roll hard, but not jump, or go high.
But holding my arm out like that was, as before, really affecting my balance and accuracy.
Normally I don't pull the ball left, but now I was really pulling it on almost every shot.
The arm being out like that was overbalancing me to the left and pulling me over.
I worked with it, trying to stay balanced for the whole first game, but accuracy was impacted and I closed with a 176 and a few opens.
But, on the good side, my pushway was longer, my backswing higher, my follow through longer and this did produce greater projection down the lane and much higher ball speed.
My speed was up 2 mph at the pins!
So not a total loss.

In game two I stopped putting the arm out and suddenly I had excellent balance and even better projection and ball speed.
I was now hitting my line perfectly and the Purple would get right up the board and turn smoothly and smash the pocket hard!

After 6 amazing frames I walked over to my doubles partner from Parkway who bowls in this league as well and told him, "It's too easy a pattern. I just have to hit my target and it is almost a strike every time. I have a board of miss room on either side of 10 and I can still strike most of the time."

This pattern was playing almost exactly like the flat patterns I bowled on before.
I could just lay the ball in there and it would stay straight and then roll up.

After the second game, the same held true in the third game.
This was a stroker's dream pattern.

The end result?

I bowled a new personal high series, a 648!

I had 17 total strikes and blew my Nord 300 away!

If I had not played with my arm out in the first game I might have had an even higher series.
I never had to move an inch with either my target or my feet.
The Purple never lost any hitting power.
My teammates also bowled out of their minds and we set new records for our league in all team categories.

Whatever they did to the pattern that hurt the high rev swingers, sure helped the low rev down and in players.
My doubles partner down on another pair bowled a 279!

I have never been more confident that I would be rewarded by a good shot.
I owe it to the help I have received here.
I got a bigger longer swing that has more ball speed and projects further and gets a better roll on the ball.
And, the most important part, it did not hurt me, it actually was much less effort than the knuckle curl.

Thank you all for your advice and help!
I think I am making progress finally.

I also learned, that at least for the down and in shot, a low flare ball that is gentle on the backend is the best kind of ball for me to use.
I did try my True Motion with high flare layout and even though it has a weaker coverstock than the Purple, it was more jumpy in the back.
Same was true of the Arsenal Angular, too much jump.

My Purple all night came back with only one oil stripe on it, it simply was not flaring.
And this seemed to be perfect for my up 10 shot.

Here is my score sheet from tonight:
2018-06-07_All Time High Series with Purple Hammer.jpg
And here is my Nord 300 counter and my high series ball:
High Series_17 Strikes.JPG

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 8th, 2018, 12:50 pm
by MegaMav
Nord wrote: I was working tonight on trying to get my left arm out with thumb down like MegaMav wanted and a longer pushaway, then letting the ball come down freely, which produced a higher backswing, and then letting the arm come forward freely, and then follow through higher and not cut it off at the bottom.

The reaction on the lanes was way, way different than before.
The balls were getting great length and then grabbing nicely once they left the pattern.
Just to be clear, I did NOT recommend a longer push away.
However what you saw from letting your arm come forward and project the ball down the lane is as expected.
If you are pulling the ball from having your balance arm out, either your swing plane is off or your balance arm is too far back.
Now just show me video.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 13th, 2018, 7:56 pm
by Nord
MegaMav wrote: Now just show me video.
I am back from vacation and will see if I can get you a video this weekend.
Just to recap, what do you need from me for this video MegaMav?

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 1:57 pm
by TomaHawk
[youtube][/youtube]

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 3:32 pm
by Nord
TomaHawk wrote:Curling - Men's Semi-Final
:lol:

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 3:40 pm
by MegaMav
MegaMav wrote:Use it (Rack Attack) and show me an elongated follow thru with it.
Watch your ball motion at 1:15 of the sanded video when you only marginally increase your follow through arc length.
Once you can do that you can play with the surface more to get the length matched up right for that ball.
Follow thru above forehead height.
Arm out, thumb down, fingers out with the balance arm at the line.
That will make a big difference with leverage at the line and down the lane with minimal change to your game.

See my friend Liz Kuhlkin below, she does it better than most when shes sharp.

These are small things that dont involve your tendon issue, you should be able to do them without pain.
No grabbing, no pulling of the ball. Roll it off your hand.
This is practice, this is progress.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 5:26 pm
by Nord
MegaMav wrote:
Use it (Rack Attack) and show me an elongated follow thru with it.
Watch your ball motion at 1:15 of the sanded video when you only marginally increase your follow through arc length.
Once you can do that you can play with the surface more to get the length matched up right for that ball.
Follow thru above forehead height.
Arm out, thumb down, fingers out with the balance arm at the line.
That will make a big difference with leverage at the line and down the lane with minimal change to your game.

See my friend Liz Kuhlkin below, she does it better than most when shes sharp.

These are small things that dont involve your tendon issue, you should be able to do them without pain.
No grabbing, no pulling of the ball. Roll it off your hand.
This is practice, this is progress.
Do you also need the shot sequence you had requested before, or do you just want to see my motion anywhere on the lane?

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 5:43 pm
by MegaMav
Nord wrote: Do you also need the shot sequence you had requested before, or do you just want to see my motion anywhere on the lane?
Moving around the lane is nice, I just want to see you project the ball down lane and get the ball to return to the pocket from left to right on the lane.

The sequence I gave would give the most information.
If you feel comfortable doing it, do it.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 14th, 2018, 10:45 pm
by Nord
MegaMav wrote:
Moving around the lane is nice, I just want to see you project the ball down lane and get the ball to return to the pocket from left to right on the lane.

The sequence I gave would give the most information.
If you feel comfortable doing it, do it.
Ok, what I am going to do for you MegaMav is shoot a sequence with how I am bowling currently with my longer pushaway and follow through and greater ball speed and lift that is helping me to be more accurate and have more power at the pins, thus scoring higher.
Then I will do the shot sequence with the balance arm out and with greater projection as you requested so you can see the difference between the two techniques.
I will use the Rack Attack with low flare layout (pin 1 1/2") and 4000 grit for both.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 5:03 am
by Nord
Nord House Shot Report:

Bowled at Surf tonight.
Brought the Rack Attack and Purple Hammer.
My goal was to continue the longer pushaway and longer backswing which is resulting in greater ball speed and accuracy, with less effort.
This is also producing more lift through the ball which is giving it a stronger roll.
My line is second arrow down and in.
This is how I bowled the 648 series last week.

In warm up the Rack Attack would get length up second arrow, but once it left the pattern, it would jump and made control difficult.
Tried the Purple Hammer on the same line and it would roll earlier and be more mild in the back and provide the hold and control I needed for this line.
So I went with the Purple.

There was more volume tonight and the first game wasn't getting the strong roll I got last week.
Closed with a 185 due to 3 opens.
Game 2 the oil broke down a bit and I was now warmed up and hitting my line perfectly.
It was amazing how hard the Purple hit the pins.
I estimate I am now getting 14 mph off the hand.
The result?
I tied my all time high score with a 259 clean game!
Final game I was tired.
I kinda lost some endurance since I have not bowled for a week.
My accuracy suffered and I closed with a 187 for the third 600 series I have bowled in two weeks.

Understand, it is rare I have ever bowled a 600 series.
I only had three 600 series in my life and now I bowled three 600 series in two weeks!
I have definitely made a breakthrough in technique.
All the 600 series were bowled with the Purple Hammer by going right up second arrow.
Just hard and fast (fast for me) right at the pocket.
Purple will hold and then roll right in and smash the pins.
I have one board on either side of second arrow of miss room.

Here is my score sheet from tonight:
Tied All Time High Game 259.png

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 3:20 pm
by MegaMav
Nord wrote: My line is second arrow down and in.
This is how I bowled the 648 series last week.

In warm up the Rack Attack would get length up second arrow, but once it left the pattern, it would jump and made control difficult.
Nord, how many times are you going to dig your heels into cramming it 2nd arrow?
When a ball displays angle on a house shot, open your angles up, dont switch balls.
What im trying to teach you here is how to broaden your horizons and start bowling on house shots how they're meant to be played.
Im happy you have found a way to project the ball down the lane and you're scoring better, but I dont think you should be practicing for score, you should be practicing things you're not good at to become more comfortable and better at them.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 4:58 pm
by krava
Glad you are doing better Nord, People need to learn how to throw with different rev rates. I bet the higher rev rate people were upset. I bet they were like "how is he doing this".

I agree with megamav with the above comment. Practice things that you aren't good at. I have been a lazy ass myself and haven't practiced due to my current situation. You need to get out there and throw the balls on a burnt up oil pattern. See what you can do on that. Then one day have them lay down like the 2016 national pattern or something. I am betting you will have more trouble on the burnt up shot then you will on the national pattern. On the national pattern you might go up 5 or 10 and be in the pocket. On the burnt pattern, you shouldn't be able to go up 10 and go to the pocket, if you do that isn't a burnt pattern. On something like that you might be at 15 or more left getting it out to 8-12 or somewhere and then back in. Try throwing at an angle and not straight up the boards Once your used to throwing straight up the boards, it is hard learning how to project it more of a /.

you might say why should I learn how to deal with either? There could be that stray night that the lane machine messes up and oils almost all the way down to the pins. Or the machine messes up and doesn't put enough oil out. I don't know if this is true or not, just a few days ago a guy complained there was too much oil on the left lane and very dry right lane. if you want to try something. Find a lane that has a lot of bowling on it where 10 is burnt, then have them put down the national pattern on the other side of it. Bowl a few games on it, one lane burnt, one lane with that pattern and try that out.

I still want to get my hands on that pattern again especially after finally figuring out how to throw the ball correctly after all this time.

also megamav talked about not switching balls. I wouldn't switch balls either unless I had to. For the entire 1/2 of fall and into this summer I have only been using 2 balls. radical ridiculious and a track spare +. I was bringing 9 balls with me but never used them. I am down to 6 but still only using 2. I am getting worried since I haven't messed with the surface of the ball in like 24 games now. I don't have access to my spinner, my bowling ball cooker thing or anything else since it is all in storage. I am in dallas right now but wicks proshop is closed for the week and opened tomorrow when I am gone. The only time I will switch balls is if, the ball having too much backend on it, or it isn't getting to the pocket at all. I remember switching threw balls once several months ago in league trying to figure something out. But I wasn't throwing the ball correctly at the time either.

I am all for switching balls if this happens. If you are leaving a 10 pin and you make a move and still leave a 10 pin. Maybe switching a ball that is close to what you have might help a little. The problem is angle of entry with the 10 pins. You need something with a slightly different shape maybe going in.

I know for a fact that I only left 1 10 pin wed and probably only 1 10 pin with the makeup game. I also left only 1 7 pin wed due to a bad pinaction break. Get a good roll on the ball and good angle of entry and there are no corners left. Maybe a stray 9 pin like I left on the last game wed in 3rd frame because the pins fell weird.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 5:59 pm
by Nord
MegaMav wrote: Nord, how many times are you going to dig your heels into cramming it 2nd arrow?
When a ball displays angle on a house shot, open your angles up, dont switch balls.
What im trying to teach you here is how to broaden your horizons and start bowling on house shots how they're meant to be played.
Im happy you have found a way to project the ball down the lane and you're scoring better, but I dont think you should be practicing for score, you should be practicing things you're not good at to become more comfortable and better at them.
I understand what you are saying.
In league I am finding the current best way to win for my team.
The changes in my release and approach have allowed me to project the ball with greater speed and accuracy with increased carry.
This has allowed my "right at the pocket" strategy to become very effective as now I get hold up the line due to the increased ball speed.

But...the technique of throwing right, to get the ball to come back left, is something I am working on in practice.
Once I start to get the hang of this, then I can try to use a reactive ball in league.
I will try to get the video done tomorrow so you can give me layout advice for the Jackpot so I can start to work on this technique in earnest.

Make sense?
Improvements in "A game" for winning league.
Practice "B game" with the hope of even more success in scoring.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 6:15 pm
by MegaMav
OK, lets do this.
I thought you were describing a practice session above.
I think 580-600 will be your floor soon.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 7:42 pm
by Nord
MegaMav wrote:OK, lets do this.
I thought you were describing a practice session above.
I think 580-600 will be your floor soon.
Sorry for the confusion.
No, all these new high scores and series for me were done during actual sanctioned league competition, not during practice.
That's why they are very exciting for me.
In practice I will be working on the things you are trying to teach me.

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Posted: June 15th, 2018, 8:00 pm
by Nord
So here is a ball review video that I think shows pretty clearly how MegaMav wants me to learn how to play house shots.
As you can see with the first bowler, she has low ball speed and lower revs and yet she can float that ball out and it will come back to the pocket.
She actually puts it down on several lines going from left to right and it just seems to float back like magic.
MegaMav, would you say that this is a good example of the method of lane play you are describing for house shots?

[youtube][/youtube]