Help Nord Score On House Shots

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 4th, 2018, 12:58 am

44boyd wrote:Serious question, every single piece of advice that is given, you have an answer for why you don’t/can’t do it. Mental game is huge part of it, if your brain doesn’t think it will work then it never will. Just seeing what your thought process is. You shoot down speed; hand position, changing lines etc..what else is left?
Like I said, I am trying to put past prejudices aside and move forward.
I have seriously experimented for several years.
I have found what does and does not work as far as technique.
But I am still open to alterations in technique that will help, but most importantly, not hurt me, or my game.
I tried sticking that balance arm out there for a few months and it hurt my game in the long run.
Stopping that allowed my accuracy and consistency to return.
I have decided I don't want to continue to use weak balls that hit the pocket and do not carry.
The ball MegaMav is sending me looks really good and I will work with it to see if it can up my average.
So I am not trying to shoot down everything everyone says because I am stubborn and don't want to change, I have actually tried many things and found that certain things just do not work for me.
I am just trying to honestly answer questions with my experience.

MegaMav wanted me to follow through more on the ball.
I tried this in one session and after half a game the tendon in my arm started to hurt.
I backed off and the pain subsided.
I think it hurt because following through forced me to hold the ball longer and that extra grip force needed to hold the ball further forward into the release, put too much strain on the tendon.
That is why I have a short release, to just slide the ball into the lane early before the torque force of the forward ball weight forces me to put more squeeze pressure on it.
Again, like TomaHawk said, I am curling the ball into the lane.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » June 4th, 2018, 2:58 am

What im asking for isnt a miracle fix, but something beyond faith healing.

If you're going to knuckle the ball down the lane, no ball is going to react well for you.
You will lack projection and angle to the pocket to generate power at the pins.
I am not asking you to impart any additional force on the ball, just continue your arm forward after release.
If using your balance arm is negatively impacting your accuracy, you're not doing it right.
Once you release your balance arm from the ball at the start, smoothly move it to the side, thumb down as the ball drops from the apex.
I wish I was there to coach you directly, because I believe your thoughts on the matter would be different.
Forget the old fogies from the past as examples, the game has changed so much since full rollers were the norm.

Speaking of norm, I recommend watching Norm Duke bowl and even watch his Next Level series on coaching.
He imparts minimal force on the ball and is very efficient in his body motion.
Im going to assume you've received medical advice on that tendon?
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd » June 4th, 2018, 3:12 am

With your pain, I would seriously consider two handed. No squeezing and you got a heck of a 2 handed arsenal. But I’d see Mav’s advice through first.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk » June 4th, 2018, 4:34 am

MegaMav wrote:What im asking for isnt a miracle fix, but something beyond faith healing.

If you're going to knuckle the ball down the lane, no ball is going to react well for you.
You will lack projection and angle to the pocket to generate power at the pins.
I am not asking you to impart any additional force on the ball, just continue your arm forward after release.
If using your balance arm is negatively impacting your accuracy, you're not doing it right.
Once you release your balance arm from the ball at the start, smoothly move it to the side, thumb down as the ball drops from the apex.
I wish I was there to coach you directly, because I believe your thoughts on the matter would be different.
Forget the old fogies from the past as examples, the game has changed so much since full rollers were the norm.

Speaking of norm, I recommend watching Norm Duke bowl and even watch his Next Level series on coaching.
He imparts minimal force on the ball and is very efficient in his body motion.
Im going to assume you've received medical advice on that tendon?


Norm has a very sophisticated release technique.

As for forgetting "the old fogies"? You must be referring to people who utilize the full roller release technique. A guy around town who recently shot 300 / 800 throws a full roller. Shoots a lot of 279's too. He should probably change his release.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 4th, 2018, 6:42 am

MegaMav wrote:What im asking for isnt a miracle fix, but something beyond faith healing.

If you're going to knuckle the ball down the lane, no ball is going to react well for you.
You will lack projection and angle to the pocket to generate power at the pins.
I am not asking you to impart any additional force on the ball, just continue your arm forward after release.
If using your balance arm is negatively impacting your accuracy, you're not doing it right.
Once you release your balance arm from the ball at the start, smoothly move it to the side, thumb down as the ball drops from the apex.
I wish I was there to coach you directly, because I believe your thoughts on the matter would be different.
Forget the old fogies from the past as examples, the game has changed so much since full rollers were the norm.

Speaking of norm, I recommend watching Norm Duke bowl and even watch his Next Level series on coaching.
He imparts minimal force on the ball and is very efficient in his body motion.
Im going to assume you've received medical advice on that tendon?
Ok, will see what I can do.
Yes, I went to one of the top orthopedic Sports Medicine doctors in San Diego.
He works on the Chargers.
He said the tendon is a mass of scar tissue from micro damage caused by the high frequency vibration of the sh-t graphite racket I used.
He said there is one experimental technique that has a 50/50 chance of success to repair the damage.
It is a technique from Europe.
The tendon is bombarded with ultrasonic sound to destroy it on a micro level.
Then the arm is put in a caste so it cannot move until the tendon heals.
The hope is it heals correctly and then lots of therapy and eventually, maybe it is ok.
I think I will pass.

But someone at work recently had a destroyed achilles tendon from playing basketball.
He got a new therapy that worked!
He is healed.
He gave me the doctor's card.
It is an out of pocket expense since insurance will not cover it.
It is similar to stem cell therapy, they inject your own blood serum into the tendon over a course of a month and cast the tendon and it just repairs itself.
I am seriously considering it.
He could barely walk and now he is playing basketball again without pain.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk » June 4th, 2018, 1:11 pm

Nord wrote:But someone at work recently had a destroyed achilles tendon from playing basketball.
He got a new therapy that worked!
He is healed.
He gave me the doctor's card.
It is an out of pocket expense since insurance will not cover it.
It is similar to stem cell therapy, they inject your own blood serum into the tendon over a course of a month and cast the tendon and it just repairs itself.
I am seriously considering it.
He could barely walk and now he is playing basketball again without pain.
Now, that's technology!

Wish something like that was available in the 90's. While preparing for a possible life on the PBA, strenuous workouts were a part of my daily regiment. Favorite apparatus, upright rowing machine. Working out at a crazy high speed, coupled with high intensity movement, caused the weld on the handle bars to give way. The force was so great, I smashed into a wall six feet behind me. My feet were strapped in, the machine came with me too.

End result, irreparable neurological damage to the right forearm, wrist, and hand area, along with a few torn tendons / ligaments. The left ankle suffered basically the same fate too. The doctors said, my bowling days were over. The only way they could guarantee stability in those areas was to surgically fuse them. Thanks, but no.

Ten years later, a guy called me out. Geez..........

The process of putting a game together with a body that was less than 100% is quite an undertaking. I experienced constant setbacks. Most important of which, too much time was being spent on trying to be what I used to be. That type of mental imaging is difficult to shake off. What was possible then, is totally impossible now. Call it a reality check.

The Nord saga has been intriguing. Knowing the physical conditions which are limiting him, it's been an interesting journey, watching, waiting to see how this whole thing plays out.

Hope he has the opportunity to experience a medical miracle. A new Nord saga would begin!

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 4th, 2018, 4:21 pm

Speaking of "old fogies" this just came on youtube!
Two of the great Full Rollers from the past.
Joe Norris in action!
Also Wrong Foot Lou Campi!
Both using conventional grips.

Check it out:

[youtube][/youtube]
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 5th, 2018, 4:34 am

Ok, a Nord on House Shot report,

Tonight at Parkway Bowl I bowled a new all time high series and achieved three personal records.

-I bowled three 200 games, something I have never done before.
-I only had one open frame in those 3 games, a split in the 10th of the second game.
-I bowled a 633 series.

Also I achieved a Nord 300, actually 14 strikes tonight.
Oh, and I had higher games than my partner on all three games.
That's a new record too since he has a 215 average and he always bests me.

Which ball did I use?

In warmup I started with the Black Widow urethane but it was coming up a little high.
After several shots, I balled down to my Purple Hammer and it was perfect, so I started with that ball.
I never looked back.
I used the Purple for all the games.
I never moved my foot or target for the whole set.

How did I do it?

You won't like it...

I shortened my push away and back swing and went into super curling mode.
My line was straight up 10 board, literally directly up it.
I just knuckle curled the ball straight up 10 and it would rotate gently and then read and roll gently to the pocket and smash the pins.
After the second game my partner started calling me "Do no wrong Steve."
I just kept all my form, approach and release as smooth and easy as possible.
I have never been more accurate in my life, something just clicked and I could just hit anything I wanted.
The Purple was an amazing ball, perfect roll and control and only a single oil flare line all night.

Yep, the Full Roll Knuckle Curl.

Sorry...
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 5th, 2018, 5:28 pm

Post Script on last night's adventure:

As I watched my own partner, who is a fantastic bowler struggle and the other team struggle on this condition last night, I could see that much of their issues were their bowling balls.
They were all using flaring reactive resin balls.
The way these balls were reacting to the lane this night was very inconsistent.
Even on identical shots they did not get identical results.
It was feast or famine and mostly famine for them.

Now, just maybe, my zero flare Purple Hammer urethane ball was jacking up the lane (for them) by tracking oil up 10, but I could roll over my same target all night and the ball never wiggled, it was as pure as the driven snow, reacting identically on identical shots.

When league ended I stuck around to watch the next league (high average league) to see if our pair would also give the next team issues.
The team on our pair were an especially high average team.
Yep, scoring was low and they were struggling with over/under with their resin.
I could see it. I watched it happen for them.
Their team and the team they were playing had varying styles of, strokers, crankers and tweeners.
Not sure what it all means...but for me, urethane was true, its movement through the lane no matter where I rolled it was gradual, gentle and predictable.
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Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd » June 5th, 2018, 5:44 pm

So you feel vindicated by not getting 5 strikes a game?
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by JohnP » June 5th, 2018, 9:49 pm

Great series, Nord!

Thanks for the Lubanski video. He was about 10 years before my time, I don't think I ever saw him on TV. Even in '59 he was a throwback to an earlier style. He also had more speed and revs than you do.

So maybe how I bowl is totally my own style?
The Nord Method of attacking the lanes?
The Nordattack?

Yes, I'd say your have a unique style. "Unique" up on the foul line. :) :) -- JohnP

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 5th, 2018, 10:11 pm

JohnP wrote:Great series, Nord!

Thanks for the Lubanski video. He was about 10 years before my time, I don't think I ever saw him on TV. Even in '59 he was a throwback to an earlier style. He also had more speed and revs than you do.





Yes, I'd say you have a unique style. "Unique" up on the foul line. :) :) -- JohnP
Thank you John!
To say I was happy with my performance was an understatement.
To finally feel in control of what I was doing, ball and lane not fighting me and me in rhythm, it was great.
I could just make shots and the ball was smooth to the target.
Hopefully I can expand on this now.
I was careful this time in practice to watch ball reaction closely and choose the ball that seemed best.
My average at Parkway now after 3 weeks into the season is 194...oh oh...
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High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by djp1080 » June 5th, 2018, 10:16 pm

Congrats on the new high series and that average isn't too shabby, Nord. Great job!
I think if you tried Lou Campi's style that tendon in your forearm would be torn to shreds and you'd surely have to learn to bowl left handed or have to quit bowling all together.
I'm looking forward to you trying this new fangled ball and you tossing the ball left to right and getting it to come back over the line.
Good luck...

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 5th, 2018, 10:59 pm

djp1080 wrote:Congrats on the new high series and that average isn't too shabby, Nord. Great job!
I'm looking forward to you trying this new fangled ball and you tossing the ball left to right and getting it to come back over the line.
Good luck...
Yep, the Jackpot will come tomorrow and I will try to get it drilled up over the weekend.
After this Thursday I am on vacation out of town until next week, so I won't be able to try it out till the following Thursday.
Will report back then.

MegaMav, just to be clear:
Plug ball and redrill as Full Roller with pin at 2"?
Should ball be put back to stock finish of 500 grit/royal compound?
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 6th, 2018, 4:51 am

So here is an example of a girl who's channel I subscribe to.
She is a very talented young bowler who epitomizes everything that MegaMav has talked about on this thread.

-She has that balance arm out thumb down.
-She has her hand behind the ball.
-She curves the ball inside out and gets it to hook off the dry.
-She has the right trailing leg to the left.
-She follows through on her swing and projects the ball.
-She is a modern bowler.

Check her out in this tournament:

[youtube][/youtube]
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
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Ball speed: 12 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » June 6th, 2018, 5:02 am

Nord wrote: MegaMav, just to be clear:
Plug ball and redrill as Full Roller with pin at 2"?
Should ball be put back to stock finish of 500 grit/royal compound?
You havent shown me what I asked for.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord » June 6th, 2018, 7:37 am

MegaMav wrote:
You havent shown me what I asked for.
So do nothing with the Jackpot until you see these test shots with the Rack?

This sequence?

Frame 1: 5/5
Frame 2: 6/5
Frame 3: 7/5
Frame 4: 8/5
Frame 5: 9/5
Frame 6: 10/7
Frame 7: 11/7
Frame 8: 12/7
Frame 9: 13/7
Frame 10: 14/7
Fill: 15/7
Full Roller
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav » June 6th, 2018, 1:50 pm

Nord wrote: So do nothing with the Jackpot until you see these test shots with the Rack?

This sequence?
MegaMav wrote:Use it and show me an elongated follow thru with it.
Watch your ball motion at 1:15 of the sanded video when you only marginally increase your follow through arc length.
Once you can do that you can play with the surface more to get the length matched up right for that ball.
Follow thru above forehead height.
Arm out, thumb down, fingers out with the balance arm at the line.
That will make a big difference with leverage at the line and down the lane with minimal change to your game.

See my friend Liz Kuhlkin below, she does it better than most when shes sharp.

These are small things that dont involve your tendon issue, you should be able to do them without pain.
No grabbing, no pulling of the ball. Roll it off your hand.
This is practice, this is progress.
You can do that sequence if you want, but I'd rather see you project the ball better down lane without knuckling it.
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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk » June 6th, 2018, 2:23 pm

MegaMav wrote:


You can do that sequence if you want, but I'd rather see you project the ball better down lane without knuckling it.
That's like asking Phil Niekro to throw a 100mph fast in his later years as a professional baseball pitcher.

Hilarious!

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Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by JJakobsen » June 6th, 2018, 3:30 pm

TomaHawk wrote:
That's like asking Phil Niekro to throw a 100mph fast in his later years as a professional baseball pitcher.

Hilarious!
Without being into your national sports (baseball is an american thing), he is asking Nord to TRY atleast.

Also, Nord, if you get pain when you follow through properly, you aren't doing it right. If you are grabbing the ball, or whatever it is, something is off...
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!

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