Help Nord Score On House Shots

[44boyd]

Remember Nord, if the ball isnt quite making it back to the pocket, move your feet a little left, throw further to the right and stay soft the further you move in. Dont bring smooth balls, but balls harder off the spot to have the maximum area bowling this way. This is the OPPOSITE of what you were doing.

This is what you should have moved to by the end of game two. You need oil from where you and your partner burnt up the 10 board.

[MeNoRevs]

Can I be frank and tell you you need to go full finger tip. Full rollers went out in the 70's. It's 2018, get with the times or just quit. I went from conventional to full finger tip in 1984. i have adapted over the decades, there's no reason you can't do the same.

Who are you to tell someone to quit? BTW, there are still full rollers today that score. There is even one out on tour that is pretty good.

[Nord]

This is what you should have moved to by the end of game two. You need oil from where you and your partner burnt up the 10 board.

Can you explain this a little more please?
I was standing right foot on 12 1/2 by this time and going right up second arrow.
The ball was coming in weak and leaving the 4-5-7 where before it rolled right up.
I did get one perfect high flush shot in game 3 and it left the dreaded 8-10 split.
So my ball was dead on arrival.
How should I have moved left?
Moved feet left?
Moved target left?
Remember, for me the Widow is not a ball that goes out and comes back, it goes very straight since it hooks and sets so early.
I was able to easily use it for 10 pins with no fear it would hook away.
It just hooks early and sets, it has no angularity for me at all.
So in your opinion a move left with the same ball was a better move than balling down?

[TomaHawk]

Well now Nord, that is much, much better!

You're going to need to figure out when the transition begins on the lane. Being a full roller, the moves you make might be quite a bit different from someone who get around the ball a little bit.

A couple of things happen to the lane that would seemingly make the shot move naturally to the left. But, because your trajectory is straight (not around), you might consider balling way down and moving to the right. Even if it means going to a sanded plastic ball.

Bowling is trial and error because there are so many factors involved in the decision making process. Gaining the ability to recognize the necessary adjustment is critical to success. Then, we have to be realistic about the scoring potential that particular move will render.

Just be calm, you'll figure it out.

[JJakobsen]

Who are you to tell someone to quit? BTW, there are still full rollers today that score. There is even one out on tour that is pretty good.

He isn't even playing as a regular full roller, so it isn't relevant. No pro player has a suitcase release like Nord, that is a huge difference from having a full roller track... I have a full roller circumference, but below the thumb hole. Doesn't mean I release it like a suitcase though.

[44boyd]

Can you explain this a little more please?
I was standing right foot on 12 1/2 by this time and going right up second arrow.
The ball was coming in weak and leaving the 4-5-7 where before it rolled right up.
I did get one perfect high flush shot in game 3 and it left the dreaded 8-10 split.
So my ball was dead on arrival.
How should I have moved left?
Moved feet left?
Moved target left?
Remember, for me the Widow is not a ball that goes out and comes back, it goes very straight since it hooks and sets so early.
I was able to easily use it for 10 pins with no fear it would hook away.
It just hooks early and sets, it has no angularity for me at all.
So in your opinion a move left with the same ball was a better move that balling down?

Move your feet in, you need oil in the front to not roll your ball out. When you move in, bring the break point a little closer to you so your ball gets to the dry a little earlier so it comes back. You might have still needed to go to the purple, but staying straight isn’t an option. You have to progress to a little swing when the ball starts going high. Remember how the old man started out at 8 and finished at 5, same concept.

[Nord]

Move your feet in, you need oil in the front to not roll your ball out. When you move in, bring the break point a little closer to you so your ball gets to the dry a little earlier so it comes back. You might have still needed to go to the purple, but staying straight isn’t an option. You have to progress to a little swing when the ball starts going high. Remember how the old man started out at 8 and finished at 5, same concept.

So, move my feet left, like from 12 1/2 where I was to like 15?
Where do I target now at the arrows, same second arrow or do I move that in too?
When you say move break-point closer, you mean not further left, but further back towards me?
So if I was hitting second arrow the ball would basically roll right up second arrow or sometimes fade right to 9 and then roll in.
But that break-point was pretty far down the lane, basically where the ball couldn't go straight anymore and then started moving left.
How do I move a shot that is going up a board, closer to me since the ball is going straight until it slows down and moves left?
When I did use the Purple you could see immediately that it had way more energy and backend on the same line and actually was going high, if I had time I could have moved my feet left as you said and probably would have been great, but sadly I waited until the 8th frame to bring the Purple out.

Now once we were done the next league came in to bowl on our burn.
This is the big guns league.
One of the best players in the league is a young man named Tim who has probably 550 rpms off one hand.
No exaggeration.
He is as smooth as silk and effortless.
If you had your back turned to him when he releases the ball you would never know he did, it is a dead silent glide unto the lane.
His target line?
He was crossing the arrows at 22 and going all the way out to 4 and back and just destroying the pins!
My partner and I just sat there watching him of half an hour in amazement.

[Nord]

He isn't even playing as a regular full roller, so it isn't relevant. No pro player has a suitcase release like Nord, that is a huge difference from having a full roller track... I have a full roller circumference, but below the thumb hole. Doesn't mean I release it like a suitcase though.

I am a 1930's style Full Roller, not a modern Full Roller.
So it is possible that standard tips and coaching for Full Rollers may not apply, or will need modification for this style.

[Nord]

Well now Nord, that is much, much better!

You're going to need to figure out when the transition begins on the lane. Being a full roller, the moves you make might be quite a bit different from someone who get around the ball a little bit.

A couple of things happen to the lane that would seemingly make the shot move naturally to the left. But, because your trajectory is straight (not around), you might consider balling way down and moving to the right. Even if it means going to a sanded plastic ball.

Bowling is trial and error because there are so many factors involved in the decision making process. Gaining the ability to recognize the necessary adjustment is critical to success. Then, we have to be realistic about the scoring potential that particular move will render.

Just be calm, you'll figure it out.

Thank you!
Yes, it felt great, especially after the previous night when I had zero hook.
I will be sure next time to bring three balls:
Very strong: Widow Urethane 500 grit cross track sand
Medium: Purple Hammer 1000 grit cross track sand
Weak: Widow Spare at, 360 or 500 grit cross track sand?

[JJakobsen]

I am a 1930's style Full Roller, not a modern Full Roller.
So it is possible that standard tips and coaching for Full Rollers may not apply, or will need modification for this style.

That is the exact reason why you should adapt your game. The game has moved on to newer and better methods, you should too.

[44boyd]

So, move my feet left, like from 12 1/2 where I was to like 15?
Where do I target now at the arrows, same second arrow or do I move that in too?
When you say move break-point closer, you mean not further left, but further back towards me?
So if I was hitting second arrow the ball would basically roll right up second arrow or sometimes fade right to 9 and then roll in.
But that break-point was pretty far down the lane, basically where the ball couldn't go straight anymore and then started moving left.
How do I move a shot that is going up a board, closer to me since the ball is going straight until it slows down and moves left?
When I did use the Purple you could see immediately that it had way more energy and backend on the same line and actually was going high, if I had time I could have moved my feet left as you said and probably would have been great, but sadly I waited until the 8th frame to bring the Purple out.

Now once we were done the next league came in to bowl on our burn.
This is the big guns league.
One of the best players in the league is a young man named Tim who has probably 550 rpms off one hand.
No exaggeration.
He is as smooth as silk and effortless.
If you had your back turned to him when he releases the ball you would never know he did, it is a dead silent glide unto the lane.
His target line?
He was crossing the arrows at 22 and going all the way out to 4 and back and just destroying the pins!
My partner and I just sat there watching him of half an hour in amazement.

Think Banana shape as you break the pattern down. When there’s oil, 10-10 straight down the second arrow and at the range finders might be the sweet spot. But as they dry up you might still be 10-10 at the arrows and range finder, but swinging it out to 8-5 at around 30-35 feet might be what’s needed. When you start going a little high while striking is when you need to start adjusting in.

[Nord]

Think Banana shape as you break the pattern down. When there’s oil, 10-10 straight down the second arrow and at the range finders might be the sweet spot. But as they dry up you might still be 10-10 at the arrows and range finder, but swinging it out to 8-5 at around 30-35 feet might be what’s needed. When you start going a little high while striking is when you need to start adjusting in.

So keep feet and target at the arrows the same, but just fade the ball right over the second arrow so it gets out to say 8 and see if it will come back and carry again?
But if the ball was dying out on direct shots because the oil on the 10 line was dried out, how does fading it right into more dry make it retain more energy?

[TomaHawk]

I think you're on the right track. No need to undertake the modern game, it's a stereotype anyway.

Balling down is where the experimentation is going to take place.

There is still oil on the lane in the area you're playing, not much though. Choosing the right ball or cutting the ball with the proper grit is going to take time and observation. Especially when it comes to plastic. No one in their right mind would even contemplate sanding plastic, unless of course, they've bowled in an environment that required such an unusual tactic

[Nord]

I think you're on the right track. No need to undertake the modern game, it's a stereotype anyway.

Balling down is where the experimentation is going to take place.

There is still oil on the lane in the area you're playing, not much though. Choosing the right ball or cutting the ball with the proper grit is going to take time and observation. Especially when it comes to plastic. No one in their right mind would even contemplate sanding plastic, unless of course, they've bowled in an environment that required such an unusual tactic

So what you are saying is, put together an arsenal of complimentary balls for my specific style?
Smooth balls that don't jump in the back, but hook and roll easy throughout the whole lane?
Have a strong ball for the fresh, then when it starts to die out as I saw last night with the Widow, ball down and try and stay in the same part of the lane with a weaker ball and eventually if needed, ball down again and maybe have to move right a touch with feet or target or both?

Last night at Parkway I got a good 1 1/2 games out of my Widow.
When I went to the Purple it had a lot more pop and backend compared to how the Widow had become.
In retrospect I could have moved a board left with my foot and used the same target and I would have been fine with the Purple.
But at Kearny the previous night, due to the flood of oil, the Widow would have been fine for all 3 games, heck, maybe 3 more with that amount of oil!

Did I understand your strategy correctly?

[44boyd]

So keep feet and target at the arrows the same, but just fade the ball right over the second arrow so it gets out to say 8 and see if it will come back and carry again?
But if the ball was dying out on direct shots because the oil on the 10 line was dried out, how does fading it right into more dry make it retain more energy?

Keep the target the same, but move your feet in. You’re going to keep the ball in the oil in the front part of the lane and into the dry sooner so it sets to go to the pocket. This is where you learn your style and ball limits and ball changes that keep you hitting the pocket.

[TomaHawk]

So what you are saying is, put together an arsenal of complimentary balls for my specific style?
Smooth balls that don't jump in the back, but hook and roll easy throughout the whole lane?
Have a strong ball for the fresh, then when it starts to die out as I saw last night with the Widow, ball down and try and stay in the same part of the lane with a weaker ball and eventually if needed, ball down again and maybe have to move right a touch with feet or target or both?

Last night at Parkway I got a good 1 1/2 games out of my Widow.
When I went to the Purple it had a lot more pop and backend compared to how the Widow had become.
In retrospect I could have moved a board left with my foot and used the same target and I would have been fine with the Purple.
But at Kearny the previous night, due to the flood of oil, the Widow would have been fine for all 3 games, heck, maybe 3 more with that amount of oil!

Did I understand your strategy correctly?

The two houses you're bowling appear to be at the opposite ends of the oil pattern spectrum. But, for your particular game, the philosophy of how to attack those conditions will be somewhat similar. In the house with a ton of oil, you probably won't use plastic (maybe). In the other house, you might to the plastic ball in a hurry.

The variables that are inherent to each individual lane are too numerous to make a blanket statement like: "Do this at this time". There's topography, snack bars, air conditioning vents, open doors, etc. And last, but emphatically not least, there are the different style of bowlers on the same set of lanes too.

A lot of people are suggesting you change just about everything in your game. Nord, I've gone through some injuries in my career that necessitated drastic physical changes in my game. A freak accident rendered my right hand almost useless in terms of ever being a really effective bowler again.

I owned a very prestigious pro shop at the time. The owner of the center was concerned about all the rhetoric that was circulating about my ability to bowl or not to bowl, which ever way you want to look at it. So, I said ok, explained the injury and said I would attempt to bowl again.

It placed me in a precarious position.

I tried all manner of grips, you name it, I tried it. Finally, out of shear desperation, a conventional grip provided the only means with which the ball would not fall right out of my hand. I had been a power player, never, ever stood right of 30. With the conventional grip, that was about to change. Now, the 8th board was deep.

Never having played there, it came as quite a surprise how much control a bowler could achieve from those outside angles. Norm Duke-ish would be the best description of the line I was forced to play. Well, the first night, I shot 300 playing up the 5 board. Got asked to bowl in the Detroit All-Star League again and averaged 241 playing no deeper than 8, ever. (The lane man, who was an arch- enemy, watched where I was playing and moved the shot to the inside). But then, we really contemplate balling down the way we might now.

So, from personal experience, I can attest to "straighter is greater." Don't be lulled into, you gotta hook the ball......

[Nord]

The two houses you're bowling appear to be at the opposite ends of the oil pattern spectrum. But, for your particular game, the philosophy of how to attack those conditions will be somewhat similar. In the house with a ton of oil, you probably won't use plastic (maybe). In the other house, you might to the plastic ball in a hurry.

The variables that are inherent to each individual lane are too numerous to make a blanket statement like: "Do this at this time". There's topography, snack bars, air conditioning vents, open doors, etc. And last, but emphatically not least, there are the different style of bowlers on the same set of lanes too.

A lot of people are suggesting you change just about everything in your game. Nord, I've gone through some injuries in my career that necessitated drastic physical changes in my game. A freak accident rendered my right hand almost useless in terms of ever being a really effective bowler again.

I owned a very prestigious pro shop at the time. The owner of the center was concerned about all the rhetoric that was circulating about my ability to bowl or not to bowl, which ever way you want to look at it. So, I said ok, explained the injury and said I would attempt to bowl again.

It placed me in a precarious position.

I tried all manner of grips, you name it, I tried it. Finally, out of shear desperation, a conventional grip provided the only means with which the ball would not fall right out of my hand. I had been a power player, never, ever stood right of 30. With the conventional grip, that was about to change. Now, the 8th board was deep.

Never having played there, it came as quite a surprise how much control a bowler could achieve from those outside angles. Norm Duke-ish would be the best description of the line I was forced to play. Well, the first night, I shot 300 playing up the 5 board. Got asked to bowl in the Detroit All-Star League again and averaged 241 playing no deeper than 8, ever. (The lane man, who was an arch- enemy, watched where I was playing and moved the shot to the inside). But then, we really contemplate balling down the way we might now.

So, from personal experience, I can attest to "straighter is greater." Don't be lulled into, you gotta hook the ball......

Wow! Amazing comeback story and a great lesson on lane play.
Thank you for this illustration.
I will keep it in mind.

I play in 3 different leagues in three different houses now.
Surf Bowl is low volume with lots of hook outside and in the back.
Parkway is medium, but sometimes a little wetter and sometimes drier.
Kearny is flooded all the time.
Dealing with each of these widely varied house shots should give me good experience in learning lane play.

[Nord]

So I stopped by Kearny tonight to get some grits put on balls and talk to my PSO.
I told him the drama from Sunday league with super oil and "Spare Land" adventure.
He told me that he has bowled on it and it is a mess.
He said what they do is they oil the lanes Sunday morning and let them be open bowled.
Then for league they just oil over that mess rather than strip and oil.
His advice is, take the Midnight Scorcher back down to 320 grit and I should be good to conquer that mess.
He also said keep the Widow on standby at 500 grit and the Purple also at 500 grit for a ball down option if needed.

Then I told him about Parkway and how my Widow shot just shut down in frame 8 of game 2.
He said, knowing well how I bowl, I should have done one two things:
1. Move my foot right and get firm with the Widow.
2. Ball down to the Purple earlier.

So in order to make the Purple a more balanced ball down option and reduce its backend so its shape is more like the Widow, we took it down to 500 grit cross sand just like my Widow.
We used the orientation that TomaHawk recommended.
Check it out:

[elgavachon]

Sounds like you have a very cooperative PSO. What is his name (if it is o.k. to ask).

[TomaHawk]

I think, the earlier criticism of your PSO in this thread was a little premature. He obviously listens and is totally aware of the intricacies of surface preparation.