Help Nord Score On House Shots

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

Help me understand.

If a reactive ball is hitting the pocket nicely and leaving the flat 10, this means the ball is losing too much energy due to to much friction and the move should be 2-1 left to get the ball into the oil?

What if the same thing is happening with a urethane ball?
Is the move the same, or is the flat 10 caused by something else?
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
stevespo
Member
Member
Posts: 584
Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
THS Average: 225
Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by stevespo »

The 2:1 left should improve carry and preserve the area you have on the lane. It helps when the ball is hooking too early or losing energy and hitting flat.

I'm very hesitant to begin comparing it to urethane. I rarely throw it, and when I do - I use higher flaring cores/layouts. Carry down is not a big issue, so I'd adjust as if it was a reactive ball. I'd move left.

Perhaps if you're throwing a low flaring urethane with lots of carrydown you'd move right and point it at the pocket, using the hold you're creating. That is speculation on my part, not based on experience.

IMO, this would be the wrong approach with reactive, unless you can generate more ball speed and Norm Duke/Walter Ray the ball to the pocket. Your ball is already operating with limited translational and rotational energy. Try and make the most of it! Stay in the oil.

Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

Everybody in the league struggled, that happens. But, the key is, maintain a consistent look to the pocket. Flat 10, ringing 10? Does anyone remember when Walter Ray left eight or nine of them in a row on tv? Why didn't he move? He's one of the best in the world. It's not all black and white. In competition, sometimes a bowler just has to wait it out, make their spares, and hope to outscore the other guy.

Nord, percentage wise, your scores were within reason when compared to your average. Your teammate did not fair as well. Team bowling requires a team effort. When you're on a shot that is not conducive to score, it is even more imperative to watch what happens to the other players shots. More importantly is the resultant pin count. Eventually, you will come to the realization, a soft 10 may not be such a bad thing.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

stevespo wrote:The 2:1 left should improve carry and preserve the area you have on the lane. It helps when the ball is hooking too early or losing energy and hitting flat.

I'm very hesitant to begin comparing it to urethane. I rarely throw it, and when I do - I use higher flaring cores/layouts. Carry down is not a big issue, so I'd adjust as if it was a reactive ball. I'd move left.

Perhaps if you're throwing a low flaring urethane with lots of carrydown you'd move right and point it at the pocket, using the hold you're creating. That is speculation on my part, not based on experience.

IMO, this would be the wrong approach with reactive, unless you can generate more ball speed and Norm Duke/Walter Ray the ball to the pocket. Your ball is already operating with limited translational and rotational energy. Try and make the most of it! Stay in the oil.

Steve
Thank you.
I will give it a try next time the Jackpot starts the flat 10 thing.
But ringing 10, it is a move right with foot and target, or only foot?

I am using the Purple for my urethane and it does not flare much, about an inch.
But at Surf, as I said, the Purple carried strong for two shots, then it got oil on it and it started to flat 10.
It was not carry down since I only made three shots with it.
It just lost its traction.
So when it loses traction my feeling was find the dry, not the oil.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

TomaHawk wrote:Everybody in the league struggled, that happens. But, the key is, maintain a consistent look to the pocket. Flat 10, ringing 10? Does anyone remember when Walter Ray left eight or nine of them in a row on tv? Why didn't he move? He's one of the best in the world. It's not all black and white. In competition, sometimes a bowler just has to wait it out, make their spares, and hope to outscore the other guy.

Nord, percentage wise, your scores were within reason when compared to your average. Your teammate did not fair as well. Team bowling requires a team effort. When you're on a shot that is not conducive to score, it is even more imperative to watch what happens to the other players shots. More importantly is the resultant pin count. Eventually, you will come to the realization, a soft 10 may not be such a bad thing.
Wise words.
I will check the scores from last week once they post them, but my 200 may have been the high game of the whole league that day.
Honestly, once the Jackpot got weird in game 2, I should have put it away rather than spend a whole game trying to find where it could perform and fail.
I am simply not that smart a bowler.
From a competition standpoint, you are right, stay in the pocket and do the best you can to win.
If I have to use urethane or plastic then that is what I have to do to win.
As MegaMav said, don't have a game plan, just do what the lanes tell you must be done.
From now on I am taking three balls that can do three different things so I have all bases covered.
Strong so I can just move left and roll right at the pocket.
Weak so I can get way right and subtly arc it in.
Jackpot, the benchmark for when the lanes want to play right so I can put up maximum scores.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
gunso
Member
Member
Posts: 291
Joined: April 4th, 2015, 11:47 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by gunso »

what you got into was the same thing the pros ru into when bowling on national television with all the television lights.

and what you see the pros do on television is moving left faster than during qualifying because the lane dries out much quicker in the midlane with all that heat.
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

Moving left is a generalized and somewhat erroneous suggestion.

The bowlers who consistently do well are tremendously adept at adjusting speed and "loft". Those are crucial elements of the game which a lot of bowlers can not / do not utilize. Those two aspects of the game allow a bowler to stay in the same area of the lane for a longer period of time. While they are the most difficult of the bowling functions to perform, they provide predictable results versus moving on the lane.

Of course, moving on the lane is inevitable. Too many times, that is the go to method for addressing adverse lane conditions.
User avatar
stevespo
Member
Member
Posts: 584
Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
THS Average: 225
Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by stevespo »

TomaHawk wrote:Moving left is a generalized and somewhat erroneous suggestion.
[...]
Of course, moving on the lane is inevitable. Too many times, that is the go to method for addressing adverse lane conditions.
I agree completely. "Move left" is not my first choice - especially on Sport shots or during tournaments. Speed control and loft are key. Hand position is always important.

We see the PBA bowlers aggressively move left because they have the rev rates and traffic to make it work. PWBA athletes tend to stay put longer and manipulate ball roll or change equipment.

On THS, for many bowlers there is little downside to (well timed, small, 2:1) moves left because you have the friction gradient to your right and a puddle to your left. Most of the time.

This topic is "Help Nord Score on House Shots". The hope is to get him comfortable making small (productive) exploratory moves and understand how that affects his ball motion. Lining up well in practice, and then going right, right, right is not going to help him score. He doesn't generate enough energy to make that work.

Early on we discussed and encouraged a full LASER approach, and for many reasons - he is not able to loft, increase speed, modify tilt or rotation. So, it's angle and equipment for now.

Regular work with a coach would be a lot more productive, than this disconnected, asynchronous, back and forth. IMO.

Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

The thread was somewhat disconnected at first, but seems to have gained a unified direction at this point in time. It is interesting, to say the least, it has lasted this long.

We really don't know who is behind a keyboard. Nord seems to have been able to muddle through all of the information and has been able to formulate a course of action which will best suit his game. Also, we can't be fully certain of his total, physical capabilities. We do know, just based on the grip he utilizes, the ability to rotate the ball aggressively is very, very restricted. But, that is not all bowling and scoring are all about. Nord is living proof of that.

There are several aspects as to how friction is actually incurred. Lane surface, ball surface, speed, and rev rate all play a roll. There are other factors, but those are the visible to humans. By understanding how each product works, we can formulate a plan which can most easily be executed by a particular person.

Nord is the most simplistic in terms how to approach his issues. We are going to eliminate two of the four elements mentioned above because it is beyond his scope not mentally, but physically. Because Nord is humble enough, he has gravitated toward those suggestions which most simplify the game.

Nord is the living, breathing example of the KISS slogan. But......he isn't stupid. And, the fact that through internet dialogue he has been able to attain his all-time highest score, is a tribute to him. Let's think about it, even the "great" Baker was disinterested because Nord did not exhibit the characteristics of what has come to be "The Modern Bowler". I'm sure Nord has a job, his desire is not to go on tour, but to be the best bowler hecan be. To the amazement of many of us, he is on his way.

"Loft", touch, and speed are next on the list for Nord. When he develops a firm grasp of those finer details, his scores will get even higher.

Go get 'em Nord!
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

TomaHawk wrote:The thread was somewhat disconnected at first, but seems to have gained a unified direction at this point in time. It is interesting, to say the least, it has lasted this long.

We really don't know who is behind a keyboard. Nord seems to have been able to muddle through all of the information and has been able to formulate a course of action which will best suit his game. Also, we can't be fully certain of his total, physical capabilities. We do know, just based on the grip he utilizes, the ability to rotate the ball aggressively is very, very restricted. But, that is not all bowling and scoring are all about. Nord is living proof of that.

There are several aspects as to how friction is actually incurred. Lane surface, ball surface, speed, and rev rate all play a roll. There are other factors, but those are the visible to humans. By understanding how each product works, we can formulate a plan which can most easily be executed by a particular person.

Nord is the most simplistic in terms how to approach his issues. We are going to eliminate two of the four elements mentioned above because it is beyond his scope not mentally, but physically. Because Nord is humble enough, he has gravitated toward those suggestions which most simplify the game.

Nord is the living, breathing example of the KISS slogan. But......he isn't stupid. And, the fact that through internet dialogue he has been able to attain his all-time highest score, is a tribute to him. Let's think about it, even the "great" Baker was disinterested because Nord did not exhibit the characteristics of what has come to be "The Modern Bowler". I'm sure Nord has a job, his desire is not to go on tour, but to be the best bowler he can be. To the amazement of many of us, he is on his way.

Go get 'em Nord!
Thank you all again for your kind words, encouragement and most importantly, instruction!
As TomaHawk has said, your internet advice has allowed me within a month and a half to reach my all time high scores and beat every high game, series and average I have had over the last 6 years of struggle.
And all this through an online forum of written advice, and me getting on the lanes and trying to figure out how to do it.
When I got my all time high 667 series I told my team at Kearny, I did it with my new ball that one of my online coaches gave me.
It was his own ball that he achieved many great scores with.
He told me what layout to put on it and what finish and how to use it.
They were impressed.
You guys are my coaches, I listen to everything you say and try my best to figure it out on the lanes.
Without this forum I would be no further in bowling ability then I was 5 years ago.
TomaHawk wrote: "Loft", touch, and speed are next on the list for Nord. When he develops a firm grasp of those finer details, his scores will get even higher.
Well I definitely can throw slower than I do now, I started out that way.
And I can throw a little faster than my current release speed.
I also can stand up straighter and loft the ball, I have experimented with that as well.
So what condition or reaction on my strike line, once I get lined up, tells me that I need to throw it faster or slower, or loft it?
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav »

With your tendon issue I would recommend NOT lofting it.
Use extension!
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

One of the problems with today's terminology, launch angle. That should really describe the height at which the ball is released onto the floor. Instead, it's used as a description for trajectory. Whatever...

We do not loft the anymore. That creates adverse ball reaction. What we can do, stay higher throughout the entire approach, letting the ball release onto the lane while maintaining that height at the foul line, and on a downward angle. I once saw Walter Ray launch (that's how the word "launch" should have been used) the ball about 10 feet, on a downward angle, before the ball hit the lane. The only reason I mention it is because while doing so, he went off the sheet for 268. Impressive.

Getting back to how to accomplish more distance out onto the lane. There should be no added force when delivering the ball to the lane. Simply, due the sustained height of the approach, the ball will naturally land further out on the lane.

If anyone is wondering about how Walter Ray managed to get the ball so far out onto the lane? He was basically stiffed knee and as tall at the line as he could be. Definitely, not his normal approach or release method. Desperate times require desperate measures.

Nord asked, when he should try it? For sure, it will not be under normal circumstances and just before: "well, all else has failed".
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

So the results from the "adventure" at Surf bowl last Thursday were posted.
Below are the list of high games and series from that night.
Dave Snyder is my doubles partner at Parkway bowl and you will note his average is 207 at Surf.

As you can see below, it was a tough time that night for even the best of us...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
RobMautner
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 664
Joined: February 15th, 2016, 5:23 pm
Preferred Company: No Preference

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by RobMautner »

The goal in most any sport is to win. For some reason bowlers want to obsess about their averages. Average is exactly what it says, it't an average! It's not meant to be a minimum goal. Sometimes the lanes are tough and scores are low. Deal with it. You just might find that with your accuracy and consistency you actually win more games when scores are low. The only numbers that are important appear in the won/loss column. Wouldn't it be a novelty to actually look forward to bowling on tough conditions where a 220 average doesn't mean squat?
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

RobMautner wrote:Wouldn't it be a novelty to actually look forward to bowling on tough conditions where a 220 average doesn't mean squat?
Actually it is.

When I still bowled at Poway, between seasons, every thursday I would host two tournaments there:
1. The Norquist Cup: Any ball could be used. Highest scratch game out of three wins the cup for that week.
2. Vintage Cup: Only Plastic or Rubber with pancake weight blocks allowed. Highest scratch game out of three wins the cup for that week.

The oil pattern was a normal house shot.

The high average bowlers would win the Norquist Cup most of the time using their normal reactive gear.
But...when those same players were required to ball down to their plastic spare balls for Vintage Cup and I was using my rubber ball, guess who almost always won Vintage Cup? Yep, yours truly.

So what you say makes a lot of sense on difficult conditions.
I will remember that next time things get unpredictable, go to a predictable ball, keep it in the pocket and clean up the messes.
I guess now that I have started to use reactive and get higher scores, I have started to get spoiled, like the other bowlers, expecting high scores all the time.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
RobMautner
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 664
Joined: February 15th, 2016, 5:23 pm
Preferred Company: No Preference

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by RobMautner »

One of the toughest conditions is where there is an over/under reaction like you had last week. This is often the result of a sudden increase in humidity in an area that is not normally very humid. We get it every summer in Vegas. I remember five or six years ago when Ron Mohr, one of the top senior bowlers in the world told me that when you encounter an over/under condition, you have two choices: either play in the oil or play in the dry. If you try to play the oil line, you'll lose 20 pins to the field every game.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

Nord House Shot Report from Kearny:

Truly horrible this time.
All me.
I could not figure out what my problem in execution was but I never hit my target line once all night.
Either the ball stuck on my hand and flung out into the lane, or fell off.
The ball would have too much rotation, no rotation, or some rotation and never the same from shot to shot.
I kept missing way right, like 5 boards right, but sometimes a couple of boards left.
On shots that I only missed slightly right, 2 boards, the Jackpot would come back to the pocket but leave a flat 10 every time.
If I missed inside it went high.
I left the 1-2-4 on one shot and tried to get it with a normal strike shot.
Finally I hit my target perfectly, but he ball went Brooklyn.
So it took me a whole game to finally hit my target to find out that was the wrong target.

I closed game 1 with a 166.

Game 2 I tried the Rack and a miss right would never come back.
I was just as inaccurate, but the Rack made things worse because it was so weak and had no reaction.
I put it away and went back to the Jackpot and struggled with misses until the 7th frame where I pulled out my Grizz urethane that I had at 500/1000.
I moved my right foot right to 7 and rolled up 7 and the ball hit light leaving the 4-7.
I missed both pins by 5 boards right by trying to throw my normal spare line for them.
The ball never hooked.
Next time up moved my foot to 6 and targeted 6.
I hit 6 and struck.
I finished the game up with the Grizz and closed with a 179.

We were playing one of the high average teams and they were just walking over us with 5, 6 and 7 baggers in each game.
We were not going to win any points tonight so the pressure was off me at the end of game 2.
I decided to use the final game and try something with the Grizz.
I tried to play 6 down and in.
If I hit it perfectly I could get a strike, but if I missed a board right, washout.
A board left would hold but hit weakly leaving the 5 pin.
And any left side spares were almost a guaranteed miss right unless I went directly at them and then there were misses left.
The Grizz was simply too too weak for these lanes but I kept going with it out of frustration and self punishment.
Closed game 3 with a 132.

Last week out at Kearny I bowled my all time high series of 667.
This week I bowled a 477, almost 200 pins under that score.

The lanes were actually kinda dry, the flood was not in place tonight.
I could see, if I got the Jackpot right of second arrow, it turned over instantly and just did not have any push back or carry.

I had tried right of second arrow in practice and the Jackpot just turned over a 1/3 of the way up the lane and rolled end over end with no backend reaction. Dead ball.

I moved my target to up second arrow but could never hit it.
All misses were right and dead ball.
A miss inside by a board was crossover.
Considering how terrible I was bowling tonight, I could not afford misses on a line that did not allow misses.

I honestly did not know what I could have done with the balls I had.
The Grizz was simply too weak and the Jackpot too strong.
I did not try moving way in and going between second and third arrow.
I just didn't really care at that point since I missed everything I aimed at anyway.

It was just one of those nights were I couldn't bowl and did not know why.
I was totally down on myself and just sat there alone in an isolated chair until my turn came up and I dreaded going up there and screwing up again.

The lanes were definitely pretty friction rich as the high average bowlers made several ball down changes as the set went on.
One player was going third arrow to second arrow and killing the pins.
Another on their team was winging the ball down 5 and crushing the pins.
And their third player was right in the middle of the other two.

I was a failure tonight.
Everything was wrong with my execution and the ball was flinging everywhere.
I was so lost and so negative and down on myself that I became a self fulfilling prophecy of failure on every shot.
A total mental breakdown resulting in worse and worse performance and extreme embarrassment in the eyes of the great bowlers we faced.

What is more annoying is that I got to the lanes early and did two warm up games.
They had not oiled the lanes yet and they were so dry that the Jackpot turned over instantly, even up the second arrow.
So I practiced playing 13 to 10 with the Jackpot and it was able to get it back, but weakly leaving the flat 10 or mixers leaving the 2.
Then I pulled out my Grizz and went up second arrow with it to find out how dry it was.
Every shot with it struck.
That's how dry it was.
Of course once they oiled it, the Grizz was only a spare ball, but the Jackpot still did not have a consistent cleanness through the front of lane or the strong backend roll it gets when the volume is higher.
I wish they could have left it unoiled, then I could have used my Grizz and likely scored very high, assuming of course I could execute, which I was in practice, but suddenly not in actual play.

All my bad.
I have to learn not to get so down on myself and punish myself by wishing for it to get even worse so I can pay for the bad bowling...

For me it is not about winning, it is about bowling well.
If I bowl well and lose I am fine.
But if I bowl horrible I hate myself and want to be punished.
This is my bad and I have to find a way out of this negativity and self re-enforcing failure.

It is very important for me to improve and advance at this stage in my bowling because I am knocking on the higher average bowler door.
But when all that progress is taken away, it is just so hard to have to go back to being the old, low average me.

Maybe some of you have been in a place like this before when bowling?
How do you pull yourself out of this darkness?

Oh, there was one high point, I converted the 2-4-5-7-10.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
44boyd
Member
Member
Posts: 658
Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
Preferred Company: Radical, Brunswick
Location: Valrico Florida

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd »

So you still only tried 5 boards? What about parallel down 15, 14,13,12,11, 5,4,3 etc..? All that free hook to bounce off of and you don’t even try to swing it? Man you’re a trip.
Stacy
User avatar
stevespo
Member
Member
Posts: 584
Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
THS Average: 225
Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by stevespo »

Very frustrating to feel lost and out of sync.

Try to prioritize and focus on the physical issues. Get the ball off your hand cleanly. Use tape, rosin, slide powder, etc. Whatever it takes. Get your timing together. Post every shot. Ask for a 2nd, 3rd set of eyes (teammates, right?).

You had lots of data to work with on the errant shots. Weak ball motion on misses right, no hold on misses left. What is the problem? You're in the wrong place. Paraphrasing David Byrne - How did you get there? Was it based on information you found in warmups, or did you fall back to old routines? Be honest.

You need hold to the left and recovery to the right. You had neither. This is fundamental. Write it on your shoes. Hold/left, Hook/right. Parallel left to find hold and then try a small angular adjustment to use the pattern as intended.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. We all want you to succeed and reach your goals. Everybody knows that it's hard to move when you're feeling like you are not throwing the ball well. It happens. I also know that when you finally find a little wiggle room, the arm swing gets loose, the release feels more natural. The stress and anxiety level will improve and so will your carry.

And lastly, don't get so down on yourself! It's bowling. It's supposed to be a good time. Even if scoring stinks you are among friends. When I get down or frustrated, I look around and think about how lucky we are to have this time on the lanes.

Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

stevespo wrote:Very frustrating to feel lost and out of sync.

Try to prioritize and focus on the physical issues. Get the ball off your hand cleanly. Use tape, rosin, slide powder, etc. Whatever it takes. Get your timing together. Post every shot. Ask for a 2nd, 3rd set of eyes (teammates, right?).

You had lots of data to work with on the errant shots. Weak ball motion on misses right, no hold on misses left. What is the problem? You're in the wrong place. Paraphrasing David Byrne - How did you get there? Was it based on information you found in warmups, or did you fall back to old routines? Be honest.

You need hold to the left and recovery to the right. You had neither. This is fundamental. Write it on your shoes. Hold/left, Hook/right. Parallel left to find hold and then try a small angular adjustment to use the pattern as intended.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. We all want you to succeed and reach your goals. Everybody knows that it's hard to move when you're feeling like you are not throwing the ball well. It happens. I also know that when you finally find a little wiggle room, the arm swing gets loose, the release feels more natural. The stress and anxiety level will improve and so will your carry.

And lastly, don't get so down on yourself! It's bowling. It's supposed to be a good time. Even if scoring stinks you are among friends. When I get down or frustrated, I look around and think about how lucky we are to have this time on the lanes.

Steve
Very wise advice, especially the last sentence.
I was so out of sorts and so inaccurate that each time I picked up the ball and set my feet it was like I was about to walk the green mile.
That is how it felt.
I knew disaster waited for me at the end of the approach.

Ok, I am going to shake it off after a night's sleep and today at Parkway, I will focus carefully on posting shots, follow through and projection and trying to find recovery from the right and hold to the left even if I have to move so far left I am targeting center arrow or something.

The other thing that bothers me is that last night I purposely did not bring my Purple Hammer because I wanted to depend on my reactive balls.
"Cut the apron strings" as MegaMav said.
But if I had the Purple last night, I know the condition I was seeing was perfect for it and I could have just rolled it up second arrow and probably done very well.
The Purple in my hand makes me feel like I can do anything, it is such a confidence builder.
Its reaction is so controllable and I know it so well.
Tonight I am bringing it and I will try never to be without this Purple insurance policy again.

Thanks for the advice and understanding.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
Locked