Help Nord Score On House Shots

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

Arkansas wrote:With a 10.5 mph ball speed at the deck your looking at maybe 12 mph off your hand, 12 mph off the hand is considered matched at around 50 rpm. You're 150 rpm. So the ball is going to read friction hard.

You're also 90* rotation and 0* tilt. So the balls is going to jump when it sees friction.

You have 2 basic options as I see it. Physical game changes or embracing the friction.

1. Physical game changes
A. Reduce rotation - this would smooth out the back end reaction and is the easiest physical change to make. It doesn't require a grip change or anything. Just change your hand position from carrying the suitcase at your side parallel to the lane, to carrying it at a 45* angle to the lane. I'd imagine you could master this in about 5 minutes.

B. Increase ball speed - this would also smooth out the back end reaction and also shouldn't be that difficult. It's just a matter of increasing your foot speed and making sure you stay in time and smooth.

C. Increase tilt - This would require some retooling. Grip change and hand position change. It's the most difficult and the most beneficial.

2. Embracing the friction
A. Use urethane or plastic - this is pretty much what you've been doing. In my estimation the reason this works, to the extent that it does, is that it controls the backend for you, compensating for your rev rate, rotation and tilt combination. The problem is that your extremely limited in where you can play on the lanes and adjustments you can make. You have to have early friction (when the ball speed is highest) to smooth the backend, but if your ball looses too much speed (due to the early friction) it's DOA. You can't play inside because you're burning your rotation earlier and there's no pop on the back. You could move left when your ball is burning up, but you have difficulty controlling the shot because of the revs and rotation I mentioned at the beginning. This is exaggerated later in the block.

If you're going to continue to pursue option 2 you might as well embrace the fact you're not getting much left of 12. Your ball lineup should be sanded flaring urethane, sanded low/non-flaring urethane, sanded plastic, and 2000-3000 grit plastic. Live on or right of 12. Learn to see when the ball is reading too early and move left as far as 12. If you're having to go inside of that, ball down. Also, you can roll the ball left-to-right from outside second arrow. You don't have to throw it straight up 10 or 5 to 10 (left to right). You can roll it 7 to 5 or 5 to 3. In other words you can get way, way outside. You need help with entry angle. That's why you can't move left.

Pick a strategy and commit to it for a while.

That's my 2 cents.
Thank you, those are very valuable suggestions!

Actually, last night in league I made a breakthrough in technique.
As I was warming up suddenly something came to me like a light bulb turning on.
It was a very simple discovery that allowed me to:
-Increase ball speed with no effort
-Greatly increase accuracy
-Greatly increase the release consistency of the ball off my hand
-Increase hitting power
-Reduce total effort and stress required to bowl

What was it?

Well, normally when I get set before my approach I am either, bent over forward with locked legs, or bent over forward with bent knees.
Tonight I stood fully straight up and totally relaxed.
As I made my approach I pushed the ball out naturally and in a relaxed manner and remained straight up until I was making my final steps and then I bent my knees to get low to the lane while remaining more erect rather than bending forward.
This allowed my arm swing to remain a pendulum and very straight as it went back and forward.
It allowed me to push the ball further forward and come further back and thus increase ball speed with no effort or muscle.
My arm was able to come forward naturally with no muscle and I was rolling through my target effortlessly.
Additionally I took the earlier advice of TomaHawk and used a ball that goes straighter and has no funny business in the back end.
I used my Purple Hammer urethane ball which only flares 1 inch, has a very high RG of 2.65 and a super low diff of .015 and just rolls easy with a subtle arc.
I had the ball at 2000 grit.

The end result tonight was:
Game 1: 190 clean game
Game 2: 184 with one open
Game 3: 193 with one open
I averaged 189.

This was the best I have bowled in several months!
The opens were totally my fault and I know what I did wrong and why they happened.
But more importantly than the scores and average was that I was super accurate and the release off my hand was silk.
I was able to read the lanes and play at different places on the pairs and find the different strike lines because I could hit half a board at the arrows virtually every time now.
I was moving half boards right with my feet on the right lane because it was flat 10'ing.
After 4 moves and still getting the flat 10, I moved my foot left one board and my target right one board and told my teammates what I did and what my expectation was.
I hit my target perfectly and 10 back.
With my new approach method I could now hit my target every time and that is how I got all my spares but two.
I really felt I would have three clean games!
The Purple was a perfect ball because it is strong but has amazing control, especially with my added ball speed.
And after those 3 games there was zero fatigue or soreness in arm or shoulder.
Usually I have a little or more depending on my technique.
I will work with this new approach and my Purple and have two other urethane balls, one stronger and one weaker than it and employ the strategy you suggested.

Thank you.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
RobMautner
Certified Coach
Certified Coach
Posts: 664
Joined: February 15th, 2016, 5:23 pm
Preferred Company: No Preference

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by RobMautner »

The thing that you don't seem to be getting is that the arrows don't mean squat! Look at where your ball is at the breakpoint... this is what matters. If you are in too much dry at the breakpoint, your ball goes through the nose, or, if it hits dry two feet earlier, it leaves you a weak ten. I actually had a tape taken at my home center after four games of trios in a high average senior league. The 41' pattern at the start was dry at eight board all the way back to 34' after league. There was still plenty of oil at 11 board, but nobody figured out to play there... they just complained that they couldn't carry for the second two games!
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

RobMautner wrote:The thing that you don't seem to be getting is that the arrows don't mean squat! Look at where your ball is at the breakpoint... this is what matters. If you are in too much dry at the breakpoint, your ball goes through the nose, or, if it hits dry two feet earlier, it leaves you a weak ten. I actually had a tape taken at my home center after four games of trios in a high average senior league. The 41' pattern at the start was dry at eight board all the way back to 34' after league. There was still plenty of oil at 11 board, but nobody figured out to play there... they just complained that they couldn't carry for the second two games!
Actually, as a Full Roller, when I play a target at the arrows, that is actually my breakpoint too.
I play up the boards.
If I go up second arrow my breakpoint is 10 board.
If I go up 9 my breakpoint is 9.
That is what I was explaining about how I got the flat 10 out.
I was going up 10 and moving my foot right a half board at a time to see if the ball would square up but after 4 half board moves still the flat 10.
So I figured 10 was too wet for my Purple Hammer on the right lane though it was fine on the left lane.
So I moved my foot two half boards left and my target to up 9 board and now the ball carried the 10.
Last edited by Nord on May 21st, 2018, 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
stevespo
Member
Member
Posts: 584
Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
THS Average: 225
Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by stevespo »

Nord wrote:Actually, as a Full Roller, when I pay a target at the arrows, that is actually my breakpoint too.
I play up the boards.
Nord, please - you're a bowler, who happens to have a full roller release. Maybe you're kidding?

There is no requirement that a full roller has their target (at the arrows) and breakpoint (40' downlane) on the same board. This is the EXACT type of thinking that is holding you back.

It's not productive. In fact, as we've established with your low speed, low tilt and high rotation - the '"straight up the boards" approach can be VERY counter-productive. You can keep searching for the "perfect urethane ball", but small physical adjusts (primarily release) are doing to do you a lot more good!

Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
User avatar
flibblesh
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: November 4th, 2014, 9:05 am
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by flibblesh »

This hasn't really got anything to do with the topic, but I spotted it shopping at Lidl today.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Steven Bourgaize

Rev Rate: Roughly 300
Ball Weight: 15lb
PAP: Smear
Span: Teeny
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav »

flibblesh wrote:This hasn't really got anything to do with the topic, but I spotted it shopping at Lidl today.
Tubular!
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

flibblesh wrote:This hasn't really got anything to do with the topic, but I spotted it shopping at Lidl today.
I may fail at bowling, but I do keep my breath fresh and minty.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

So a quick Nord on house shot report:
Tonight was the first night of my third league.
I bowl doubles at Parkway.
I bowl trio at Surf.
And now quad at Kearny.
I brought my Purple Hammer which has been doing so well at Parkway and Surf.
I also debated which stronger ball to bring incase the Purple was having traction issues.
The choices were, Widow, Scorcher or Rack Attack.
I settled on the Rack Attack as the back up stronger ball since it has a similar shape to the Purple with a tad more backend reaction.
Well, let's just say it was a terrible experience.
They put a massive flood down that neither ball could handle.
I mean I moved so far right that I might as well have been shooting a 7 pin, yet the balls would still not grab the lane.
Both were spare balls.
Now, in game 1 on the fresh the high rev bowlers were in heaven.
They were hooking the lane, crossing the arrows between second and third arrow and getting it out to 5 and back.
But, a cool thing happened, I messed their shot up with my urethane ball!
I saw it finally happen.
They were blowing through their break points and leaving washouts!
They were very pissed by this and grumbling and kicking the ball return and cussing.
They were unaware I was using urethane and rolling over their break points.
Flat 10's, 8-10s, 1-2-4-10s.
They were saying, "wtf didn't that come back?!"
Eventually they both balled down to real strong gear and did better, though one of them had 3 stone 9 pins in a row.
So even though I did horrible because I only had spare balls, it was interesting to finally see carry down mess up a high rev players shot.
My games were: 139, 142 and finally in game 3 I got a 178 by just slow muscle rolling the ball super slow.
I actually hurt my arm and shoulder from being forced to slow muscle roll the ball just to force it into some semblance of a roll.
Well, they are very sore, but not injured.
Actually I have no idea why a house has to put down that much oil, I really see no need for that at all.
Kearny is already using the slickest lane surface made, Pro Anvilane, why put down the Badger on it too?
Well, we were establishing tonight so I guess having a very low average doesn't hurt.
Somehow my team actually won one point.
Next time I am bringing the big guns, Scorcher for sure and Widow.
Anyway, that was my drama tonight.
It never ends does it?
It never gets better.
Just when I finally think I am making progress, I am slapped back down to the low average world by another crazy house shot.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
44boyd
Member
Member
Posts: 658
Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
Preferred Company: Radical, Brunswick
Location: Valrico Florida

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd »

MegaMav wrote:Nord,

Here is what I want.
Take the Dark Legend Solid, sand it hard by hand with 500 then moderately (but not lightly) with 2000.
Give me 5 shots on video, I dont care if they strike.

Arrows/Breakpoint at 40-42ft.

5/5
15/15
8/5
13/6
18/8 (this one may go 100ft, but thats OK, still have to see)

These shots will show me the slope of the pattern left to right and front to back.
I dont think you are throwing the ball far enough right to kick off the friction hard enough.
Nord, have you done this yet? I feel you’re reluctant in trying a new game plan and/or stubbornly trying to force the down and in. You were already told that you needed stronger equipment going to that house but you refuse again. What’s funny is you said you finally seen your ball messing up the line, but fail to recognize it when you and your partner do it to each other every single game. When you throw a 150, you might as well start experimenting. You know what they say when you keep doing the same thing expecting a different result..
Stacy
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

Nord, everyone has a comfort zone in terms of oil pattern or oil volumes. High rev players like more oil, low rev players prefer less. The most important part of the bowling process is, make those spares. Bowling on heavier volumes makes it easier because the bowler knows the ball is going to go straight.

Embrace it, don't fight it. Developing a good bowling strategy is no different than having a plan in any other sport. The problem many bowlers have though, they see someone having success on a particular oil pattern and they think to themselves: "if I could only do that".

It's like playing basketball. It would be a waste of time to try and dunk a basketball if a person can't jump. Does that mean they can't play? No, they just figure it out and do what they do best.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

44boyd wrote:
Nord, have you done this yet? I feel you’re reluctant in trying a new game plan and/or stubbornly trying to force the down and in. You were already told that you needed stronger equipment going to that house but you refuse again. What’s funny is you said you finally seen your ball messing up the line, but fail to recognize it when you and your partner do it to each other every single game. When you throw a 150, you might as well start experimenting. You know what they say when you keep doing the same thing expecting a different result..
Yea, the problem I had was not strong enough gear for Kearny.
I really had no idea they would put down such a flood.
My Purple at 1000 grit was fine for Parkway and Surf, I figured it would be no problem at Kearny, big mistake.
And I missed tons of spares because I am used to my spares hooking a little into the pin, so all my spares were missing to the right of the pins because there was no hook.
The first 5 frames of game 1 were all opens from missed spares.
If I had just had a ball that would have read the lane, even a little, then I would have been fine.
It wasn't stubbornness, I just didn't have the heavy artillery needed for these crazy lanes.
I just couldn't conceive that a strong ball like the Purple Hammer, that rolls easily on Parkway, which is a high volume house shot, would be nothing but a spare ball at Kearny.
I went to a gun fight with a fly swatter.
But really, honestly, why is it necessary to put that much oil down on a house shot, ever?
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav »

Nord wrote: But really, honestly, why is it necessary to put that much oil down on a house shot, ever?
Because not everyone knuckles it 150 RPM down the lane with 90* rotation.
Still, I cannot help you if you dont show me the problem by making the shots I outlined.
If 5 was hooking for the boomers, you put the ball down on 5. I suspect your attempt at 5 didnt really hit 5.
I bet it was 8 or 9.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

MegaMav wrote:
Because not everyone knuckles it 150 RPM down the lane with 90* rotation.
Still, I cannot help you if you dont show me the problem by making the shots I outlined.
If 5 was hooking for the boomers, you put the ball down on 5. I suspect your attempt at 5 didnt really hit 5.
I bet it was 8 or 9.
The only two of the 8 players on our lanes getting hook, were both 500 rpm modern power players.
They could get it as far right as 5 and it would peal back, but they could get it to anywhere between 10 and 5 and it would still peal back, that is, until I messed it up for them with my Purple hammer.
By game 3 I messed it up so much that their scores dropped to a 189 and the other guy, "gulp" a 130...sorry dude...
The problem with showing you those shots you want to see is that they don't put down that oil pattern on the weekends.
The competition pattern and the weekend pattern are completely different.
On the weekends at Kearny the house shot is much lower volume and quite easy.
I can almost use any ball.
But during league, only the strongest of gear will have a chance for me.
I can't set up my camera and do any videos during league.
I guess I just have to come to league with three balls it seems.
Super strong, medium and weak.
I hate having to tote these things around, but, I guess I must discipline myself to be ready for anything.
The high rev players came each with 6 balls.
Really? 6 balls for a house shot?
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4694
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 225
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 5.5 Over & 1 Up
Speed: 16.0 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 375
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - Informer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick - Fearless
Light Oil Ball: Radical - Bonus Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by MegaMav »

Nord wrote: I can't set up my camera and do any videos during league.
I guess I just have to come to league with three balls it seems.
Even if its after league, it will show me something and I can offer you a solution.
Until I see video of whats happening, I will discontinue commenting on this thread.
44boyd
Member
Member
Posts: 658
Joined: January 25th, 2017, 3:10 am
Preferred Company: Radical, Brunswick
Location: Valrico Florida

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by 44boyd »

Nord wrote: The only two of the 8 players on our lanes getting hook, were both 500 rpm modern power players.
They could get it as far right as 5 and it would peal back, but they could get it to anywhere between 10 and 5 and it would still peal back, that is, until I messed it up for them with my Purple hammer.
By game 3 I messed it up so much that their scores dropped to a 189 and the other guy, "gulp" a 130...sorry dude...
The problem with showing you those shots you want to see is that they don't put down that oil pattern on the weekends.
The competition pattern and the weekend pattern are completely different.
On the weekends at Kearny the house shot is much lower volume and quite easy.
I can almost use any ball.
But during league, only the strongest of gear will have a chance for me.
I can't set up my camera and do any videos during league.
I guess I just have to come to league with three balls it seems.
Super strong, medium and weak.
I hate having to tote these things around, but, I guess I must discipline myself to be ready for anything.
The high rev players came each with 6 balls.
Really? 6 balls for a house shot?
Nord, it depends on how you view/approach league. I bring 3, plus a spare to league. And that is sometimes not enough. You seem to put the time and money into improving, not understanding the reluctance in a simple hand change that would easily make your average your high series score. It might also allow you to play your preferred down and in. I’m a straight player too, love it. But if it ain’t striking, I’m changing something.
Stacy
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

44boyd wrote:
Nord, it depends on how you view/approach league. I bring 3, plus a spare to league. And that is sometimes not enough. You seem to put the time and money into improving, not understanding the reluctance in a simple hand change that would easily make your average your high series score. It might also allow you to play your preferred down and in. I’m a straight player too, love it. But if it ain’t striking, I’m changing something.
For me to change to semi-roller would require a huge investment of time and money to achieve.
As I said before, I need to find a competent driller who can do a real perfect fit so I don't have tons of pain like I did when I first started out as a bowler.
I started as a semi-roller with a fingertip grip and migrated to full roller to escape pain and get some consistency.
Full Roller style with suitcase grip with a crap load of forward pitch in finger and thumb in a conventional grip was the only way to not have to quit bowling for me.
No one in San Diego had any other answers for me and Ron Machniak was nice enough to get me a good fitting for that type of grip and style so I could hold the ball without pain.

Megamav: Ok, I will get your video shots over the holiday and you can let me know what you think.

Tonight in doubles league I am taking some strong balls and a medium ball.
I don't want to ever see a re-occurrence of "spare land" again with a strike ball.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
TomaHawk
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 587
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:28 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by TomaHawk »

ok, now you've experienced the exact opposite of what was described earlier in the thread, which was wet / dry.

Try this. Take a ball, something porous that you don't ordinarily use, hit it with 360 grit (fresh pad). It should be done on a spinner. You want the lines to run perpendicular to the track. In this particular instance, the ball is set on the spinner with the track of the ball 90* to the spinner bowl. Do this with the fingers up, flip it over, then sand it with the thumb up as in the illustration.

Even if it the ball goes straight, you should have more control.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

TomaHawk wrote:ok, now you've experienced the exact opposite of what was described earlier in the thread, which was wet / dry.

Try this. Take a ball, something porous that you don't ordinarily use, hit it with 360 grit (fresh pad). It should be done on a spinner. You want the lines to run perpendicular to the track. In this particular instance, the ball is set on the spinner with the track of the ball 90* to the spinner bowl. Do this with the fingers up, flip it over, then sand it with the thumb up as in the illustration.

Even if it the ball goes straight, you should have more control.
Funny you should mention it!
Here is what my PSO did for me on my Widow so I would not run into spare ball land again.
I will try this tonight at Parkway:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 772
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by Nord »

Ok, here is a Nord Parkway house shot report:
I took three balls.
Track Arsenal Angular Particle with Axis drill at 3000 grit.
Widow urethane at fresh 500 grit cross track sand.
Purple Hammer at 1000 grit.
We got there early and did two practice games on an adjacent pair to explore ball reactions.
Track would not roll up well, even right of second arrow.
The Widow was a rolling beast killing the pins.
Purple was also pretty good but with much more backend than Widow.

Decided on Widow and it was the right choice.
I stood right foot on 13 rolling right up second arrow.
The ball would roll hard and hook throughout the lane with wonderful control.
I had lots of miss room.
A board inside would hold and crush the pocket.
A board right would hook and set and also strike just as hard as a shot up second arrow.
A miss two boards right would come in light and carry the mixer.
I could basically do no wrong.
Game 1: a 216 clean game.

God it is good to have hook and roll.
After the skid nightmare at Kearny, this was such a relief.
It makes me realize, I really don't suck as bad as I think, I now believe it is mainly terrible ball choices that are holding me back.
This is all on me, not knowing what kinds of balls I really need to be using.
I am very accurate and consistent.
I can hit to within a board almost every time.
But when the balls I use hit the pocket, they don't do much unless I am dead on perfect.
The Widow, which I have shelved for some time in my exploration of vintage and low flare balls, showed that major early hook and heavy roll are what works for my style.

But of course my partner showed me up by laying down a 278 for game 1!

Game 2 I got 3 flat 10's in a row.
My partner said move a half board right with my foot and I did and got a hambone.
But...and here is the big but...starting in frame 8 my ball lost all its pop.
Dead on arrival. DOA.
I got a 4-5-7, then a flat 10, then another 4-5-7 but still closed with a 209.

Game 3 I wanted that 600 series!
But the Widow was done, it simply could not carry anymore.
It was just dying out.
I struggled through the game, moved right, tried to move in, but no go.
Finally, too, too late, I balled down to the Purple and it was strong, but was jumping too much in the back and going high.
I left the 7 pin in two frames and then the 4-7 and missed the spare because the ball got stuck on my thumb since the thumb hole was slightly tighter on the Purple than the Widow.
I thought I could relax my hand, but I was too used to the squeeze pressure of the Widow and my hand did not adjust fast enough to prevent the yank/miss in the 10th.
Closed game 3 with a dismal 151.

So what did I do wrong?
What should I have done to sustain the scoring in game 3?
I knew I blew it, I could see the Widow was dying out, but I had done so well with it that I was reluctant to change anything, but in retrospect I feel I should have balled down at the end of game 2 once I started leaving those 4-5-7's.

I can say the Widow provided the perfect reaction for my game.
A strong early roll that hooked early and set and then just rolled like a freight train to the pocket.
As long as there was enough oil, it just blew the pins everywhere, even on light hits.
I could also throw faster and not worry about having to slow muscle roll it like I was forced to do at Kearny.

Here are my games, what a difference when you can get the ball to actually hook and roll:
Nord Widow @ 500 grit Series at Parkway.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 145
Ball speed: 13 mph at launch
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 269 bowled with Pitch Black.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.
pocket710guy
Member
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 8:24 pm
THS Average: 203
Speed: 14-16
Heavy Oil Ball: Results solid
Medium Oil Ball: Ludicrous solid& pearl and Zing hybrid
Light Oil Ball: Ridiculous pearl
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: Help Nord Score On House Shots

Post by pocket710guy »

Nord wrote: The only two of the 8 players on our lanes getting hook, were both 500 rpm modern power players.
They could get it as far right as 5 and it would peal back, but they could get it to anywhere between 10 and 5 and it would still peal back, that is, until I messed it up for them with my Purple hammer.
By game 3 I messed it up so much that their scores dropped to a 189 and the other guy, "gulp" a 130...sorry dude...
The problem with showing you those shots you want to see is that they don't put down that oil pattern on the weekends.
The competition pattern and the weekend pattern are completely different.
On the weekends at Kearny the house shot is much lower volume and quite easy.
I can almost use any ball.
But during league, only the strongest of gear will have a chance for me.
I can't set up my camera and do any videos during league.
I guess I just have to come to league with three balls it seems.
Super strong, medium and weak.
I hate having to tote these things around, but, I guess I must discipline myself to be ready for anything.
The high rev players came each with 6 balls.
Really? 6 balls for a house shot?
Can I be frank and tell you you need to go full finger tip. Full rollers went out in the 70's. It's 2018, get with the times or just quit. I went from conventional to full finger tip in 1984. i have adapted over the decades, there's no reason you can't do the same.
Locked