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 Post subject: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:32 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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It still disturbs me that activities like women's softball and snow boarding are Olympic
sports, but bowling isn't?
Really?
I mean really?
Snow boarding? Olympic Sport?

But, in the spirit of this thread, perhaps before Bowling can become an Olympic Sport the balls and lanes must be standardized so all players compete with the same ball and lane condition?
No player can be allowed to have an equipment advantage and the field that competition occurs on (the lanes) must be the same for all competitors.
Additionally, to prevent unfair advantage or disadvantage, the lanes must be cleaned and oiled after every set to prevent the next round from dealing with the junk from the previous round.
The Olympics for Bowling is perhaps one reason to have standard gear and conditions for all players, at least in this venue.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:50 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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Nord wrote:
It still disturbs me that activities like women's softball and snow boarding are Olympic
sports, but bowling isn't?
Really?
I mean really?
Snow boarding? Olympic Sport?

But, in the spirit of this thread, perhaps before Bowling can become an Olympic Sport the balls and lanes must be standardized so all players compete with the same ball and lane condition?
No player can be allowed to have an equipment advantage and the field that competition occurs on (the lanes) must be the same for all competitors.
Additionally, to prevent unfair advantage or disadvantage, the lanes must be cleaned and oiled after every set to prevent the next round from dealing with the junk from the previous round.
The Olympics for Bowling is perhaps one reason to have standard gear and conditions for all players, at least in this venue.


I quit college to go into this business. (not the brightest thing, but I would have never, ever gotten the opportunity to develop such close relationships with so many wonderful people) I was very young, impressionable, and naive. I wouldn't take too long though, to witness and hear things that made my eyes wide open. Bowling, the game that I love, has a dark side. We've changed the name from alley to center, but unfortunately, it's still an alley.

That is why it is not an Olympic sport. Olympic sports have the aura of a clean environment. Bowling in the eyes of the world, not so much.

What sport, given all things are created equal, can benefit a particular type of athlete. I always like to use this example, who was the better bowler, Tommy Jones or Walter Ray. They were both great, but one played the inside edge, the other played the outside edge. While they are both versatile on the lanes, it would be very rare if Jones played straight up the 3 board, just as rare to see Walter play in front of the rack. If the condition so suited one or the other, we could predict the outcome before the match ever started. Another obstacle, the lane surface can be manipulated so easily.

Having said that, the other reason bowling is not an Olympic sport is because bowling relies on machinery and parameters which are specific to bowling industry. Where can an athlete practice bowling, as a whole, except in a center? This revelation came as I watched youngsters from a very poor country make do with a soccer ball made from tin foil. By golly, if you're pretty good at playing with a ball of tin foil, you'll probably be even better when you get to play with the real thing.

So, there it is, every sport in the Olympics can be practiced in a natural environment of some sort. Unless, playing with a hollow plastic ball and pins in the yard gives a realistic perspective of what it's like to bowl on a lane?

That is not to say, there is no place in sports for professional bowling. For a long time, it captured the imagination of television viewers everywhere, to the tune of being the number one viewed program on the tube.

Somebody thought, football might be more exciting. It is. But, bowling could have fought back, it didn't.

Bowling has a spot in the sporting culture though. The problem is, the people who are supposed to know so much....don't know much at all. They continue to prove it over, and over, and over, etc


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:09 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:

I quit college to go into this business. (not the brightest thing, but I would have never, ever gotten the opportunity to develop such close relationships with so many wonderful people) I was very young, impressionable, and naive. I wouldn't take too long though, to witness and hear things that made my eyes wide open. Bowling, the game that I love, has a dark side. We've changed the name from alley to center, but unfortunately, it's still an alley.

That is why it is not an Olympic sport. Olympic sports have the aura of a clean environment. Bowling in the eyes of the world, not so much.

What sport, given all things are created equal, can benefit a particular type of athlete. I always like to use this example, who was the better bowler, Tommy Jones or Walter Ray. They were both great, but one played the inside edge, the other played the outside edge. While they are both versatile on the lanes, it would be very rare if Jones played straight up the 3 board, just as rare to see Walter play in front of the rack. If the condition so suited one or the other, we could predict the outcome before the match ever started. Another obstacle, the lane surface can be manipulated so easily.

Having said that, the other reason bowling is not an Olympic sport is because bowling relies on machinery and parameters which are specific to bowling industry. Where can an athlete practice bowling, as a whole, except in a center? This revelation came as I watched youngsters from a very poor country make do with a soccer ball made from tin foil. By golly, if you're pretty good at playing with a ball of tin foil, you'll probably be even better when you get to play with the real thing.

So, there it is, every sport in the Olympics can be practiced in a natural environment of some sort. Unless, playing with a hollow plastic ball and pins in the yard gives a realistic perspective of what it's like to bowl on a lane?

That is not to say, there is no place in sports for professional bowling. For a long time, it captured the imagination of television viewers everywhere, to the tune of being the number one viewed program on the tube.

Somebody thought, football might be more exciting. It is. But, bowling could have fought back, it didn't.

Bowling has a spot in the sporting culture though. The problem is, the people who are supposed to know so much....don't know much at all. They continue to prove it over, and over, and over, etc

Once Bowling is inducted as an official Olympic Sport, then countries will spend the money and create Olympic training centers for Bowling.
The Olympics will first have to define the equipment that will be used for competition and the oil pattern and then the athletes will practice at their training centers with the official Olympic balls and oil pattern.
Just like athletes do today for other sports.
It can be done and should be.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:05 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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Olympic Olympic... bowling is at the World Games, Pan American Games, Centro American Games and Iberoamerican games to name a few. The athletes that play for team Singapur it’s their full time job and they get paid a very good salary and good bonuses for medals. The sport of bowling in those events is played as it is now (except some funky scoring at the World games) and if it were to be played as an Olympic sport I don’t see why it couldn’t be played the same as in these Games.

Now why is it not an Olympic sport? The answer is money, there is not much money sponsoring bowling as for example there is in snowboarding... which brings me to the question what’s the problem with snowboarding being an Olympic sport, it takes skill, commitment, endurance, balance and many other qualities, same as diving or synchronized swimming...


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:02 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Sorry, I fail to why bowling needs to be an Olympic sport.

When we watch the Olympics on television, we are almost always witnessing the best of the best. What about the little countries? They should have the same opportunity as anyone else. Where is a person from Haiti going to practice?

It is good that people possess the passion to promote bowling as a sport.

Let me ask this, what other sport is predicated on the object changing direction based the amount of friction it encounters? The only two absolutely fair lane conditions are oil to the pin deck or no oil at all. Very few are capable of bowling on either. Bowling, as we know it, would not be fun. It would be downright miserable, just the way some people want it.

My goal is not to criticize bowling. I too wish bowling could be recognized as something more than luck or an unfair advantage because of equipment. Having coached at the college and high school level with teams who were not in a financial position to buy the latest and greatest was a phenomenal experience. But in many instances, the people who had the wherewithal to have the best equipment would prevail.

In the end, the new regulation will prove to affect our customers, not Olympians.

In fact, I'm here to tell ya, the rule has already caused a drone.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:45 am Post Number: #6 Post
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Nord wrote:
It still disturbs me that activities like women's softball and snow boarding are Olympic
sports, but bowling isn't?
Really?
I mean really?
Snow boarding? Olympic Sport?


Wow. Making a comment about softball and snowboarding sounds exactly like someone that does not know about the sport of bowling making a comment about bowling.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:51 am Post Number: #7 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:

Wow. Making a comment about softball and snowboarding sounds exactly like someone that does not know about the sport of bowling making a comment about bowling.


Exactly, but then again we all know bowling is nothing but a game beer drinking teenagers and very unfit adults play Friday night under neon lights...


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:57 pm Post Number: #8 Post
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First of all, if you have ever watched snowboarding, you'd see why it is an Olympic sport. Actually feel mildly offended as a skier to hear that. Call me when you land a quad cork.

Second, bowling, outside the US, isn't the same as in the US. Calling stuff in the PBA "World championship" does NOT make it the world championship. There is a separate event called that, and there is a European Championship as well. Exactly like there is a football (soccer) world championship, biathlon, cross-country skiing, downhill, handball world championships.

These sports make it into the Olympics, and the basics are the same, in that you get a new, different track to ski, new enviroment, but in the end, the ones who play the best, run the fastest, shoot the most accurately will win. Same goes for bowling. You can easily develop a way of having bowling in the Olympics. You could have separate short and long oil championships, with singles, double, trios and team competitions within this, to cover both pattern lengths. Of course, these would be in the PBA pattern difficulty area, 2-3:1 ratio.

Thats my take on it anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:05 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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The PBA is only recently drawing more International World class bowlers to events. Whereas Golf has been decades ahead in that regard, both in USA & abroad. Of course the money involved enabled that to be. Bowlings big payouts don't compare therefore making it impossible for but a select few. Go back & Amleto was the only one bcuz he was financially able to do so. Now we see so many more International names that 20 + yrs. ago would've never been heard of. Still many more out there but the exposure is much better today for those countries players. Competitive bowling on a world wide scale is just now catching up & hopefully continuing to do more in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:25 pm Post Number: #10 Post
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Most of the events in the Winter Olympics say hi. How are those little countries expected to compete there? Not really a valid argument.

In terms of changing environments, many outdoor events are affected by the weather - especially the wind. Any event that has athletes competing to post times and such during different conditions should be deemed unfair. Yet it is allowed. The playing "surface" is not equal to all. Just look at downhill skiing. You can't tell me that they are all playing on a level field. The slope is constantly changing and different for each skier.

You want a sport that relies on friction? Curling. Most of the friction is achieved by the sweepers. Not exactly a level playing field.

I'm tired of hearing the "fair" argument. Just face it. Pretty much every sport has athletes who are better than the majority, and pretty much every sport has athletes who excel during certain conditions. This is not unique to bowling. And there are many sports that the athletes are not using the same equipment. Not sure why bowlers think this is specific to bowling.


TomaHawk wrote:
Sorry, I fail to why bowling needs to be an Olympic sport.

When we watch the Olympics on television, we are almost always witnessing the best of the best. What about the little countries? They should have the same opportunity as anyone else. Where is a person from Haiti going to practice?

It is good that people possess the passion to promote bowling as a sport.

Let me ask this, what other sport is predicated on the object changing direction based the amount of friction it encounters? The only two absolutely fair lane conditions are oil to the pin deck or no oil at all. Very few are capable of bowling on either. Bowling, as we know it, would not be fun. It would be downright miserable, just the way some people want it.

My goal is not to criticize bowling. I too wish bowling could be recognized as something more than luck or an unfair advantage because of equipment. Having coached at the college and high school level with teams who were not in a financial position to buy the latest and greatest was a phenomenal experience. But in many instances, the people who had the wherewithal to have the best equipment would prevail.

In the end, the new regulation will prove to affect our customers, not Olympians.

In fact, I'm here to tell ya, the rule has already caused a drone.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:17 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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If you enter a team that sucks at long patterns, that is actually your team managements fault, they have either failed in practice/coaching, or at selecting the players for the team. In my eyes, there must be multiple patterns, in the same manner as you have downhill, slalom, giant slalom and Super-G, with specialists within these variations, and some "jack of all trades" skiers who are pretty good on all, but not the best on any, which gives them a SHOT at winning, while those best on certain conditions are more likely to win.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:28 pm Post Number: #12 Post
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I think this topic took a turn, if you want to talk Olympics maybe start another topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:54 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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I know the topic has been split now, but it is kinda relevant. If Olympics take bowling into its open arms, who governs the rules? USBC? WB? ETBF? A separate Olympic Bowling Federation/Congress?

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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:57 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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JJakobsen wrote:
I know the topic has been split now, but it is kinda relevant. If Olympics take bowling into its open arms, who governs the rules? USBC? WB? ETBF? A separate Olympic Bowling Federation/Congress?


Chad Murphy.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:01 pm Post Number: #15 Post
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Most of the events in the Winter Olympics say hi. How are those little countries expected to compete there? Not really a valid argument.

In terms of changing environments, many outdoor events are affected by the weather - especially the wind. Any event that has athletes competing to post times and such during different conditions should be deemed unfair. Yet it is allowed. The playing "surface" is not equal to all. Just look at downhill skiing. You can't tell me that they are all playing on a level field. The slope is constantly changing and different for each skier.

You want a sport that relies on friction? Curling. Most of the friction is achieved by the sweepers. Not exactly a level playing field.

I'm tired of hearing the "fair" argument. Just face it. Pretty much every sport has athletes who are better than the majority, and pretty much every sport has athletes who excel during certain conditions. This is not unique to bowling. And there are many sports that the athletes are not using the same equipment. Not sure why bowlers think this is specific to bowling.


I used to have the same mindset.

Watching the Olympic downhill or any of the skiing events, it became obvious that elements could play an important factor in one's performance. It seemed like conditions were changing by the minute. From that perspective, it did not seem fair. But, there were little surprises in the outcome. So yes, the best continue to rise to the top.

In bowling, it is not the performance of the individual that is in question, it is the end result. The are ten inanimate objects which determine the fate of the score. Watch any sport, when they execute flawlessly, the expected result is complete success, even in a not so ideal environment.

Ever leave a solid 9......

I'll reiterate, any Olympic sport can be played somewhere, without the need for specialized machinery. Curling was mentioned. More friction, less friction, whatever, is created by a team of humans. All one has to do is find a frozen pond to play on. I'm in Michigan, lots of frozen ponds. And it's free. It is impossible to practice bowling anywhere except on the lanes. Not free, in fact, far from it.

You mentioned that you are tired of the "fair" argument. At the top level of bowling, everyone is well aware of their strengths as well as that of their opponent. Everyone knows who has the advantage or not. Anyone remember when Marshall Holman wanted to walk off the lane because after a few shots, he knew, he didn't have a chance.

Why people can't understand that is beyond me.

The no x hole rule will not change what bowling is.


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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:22 pm Post Number: #16 Post
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edit: Nevermind


Last edited by MeNoRevs on Thu May 03, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:06 pm Post Number: #17 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
Can the Olympic talk be broken into a different thread?

Uhm...
Quote:
Should bowling be in the Olympics?
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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:22 pm Post Number: #18 Post
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TomaHawk wrote:
I'll reiterate, any Olympic sport can be played somewhere, without the need for specialized machinery. Curling was mentioned. More friction, less friction, whatever, is created by a team of humans. All one has to do is find a frozen pond to play on. I'm in Michigan, lots of frozen ponds. And it's free. It is impossible to practice bowling anywhere except on the lanes. Not free, in fact, far from it.


This doesn't make any sense to me. There is a broad cost spectrum, and some sports are cheaper than others, but getting to the Olympics (or any reasonably high level of competition) in any sport requires an enormous outlay in terms of time, money, coaching, travel, nutrition, training, etc.

Downhill skiing is so cheap? Sure, just hike up a mountain and slide on down. On what? You have to buy the skis, the boots, the bindings. You need different skis for different conditions. Oh wait, 2 runs a day won't cut it. You really need a season pass. You need access to challenging terrain. That's all free, right?

Obviously, practicing bowling at $6/game isn't possible. Every successful bowler I've ever met has (at some point in time) worked at a center and gotten lane time for cheap. They've found a sympathetic center who will let them practice in exchange for cleaning, sweeping, pin chasing, etc. They get sponsors, etc. Where there is the will, there is a way.

As I see it, bowling's main problem with mainstream acceptance is not costly barrier to entry, but lack of corporate advertising dollars - and the public perception that it's Saturday night glow-bowling entertainment and not a competitive, skilled endeavor. Can that be improved over time? I hope so.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:31 pm Post Number: #19 Post
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I believe we as bowlers aren't yelling loud enough compared to other minority sports, which is why other minority sports are added to the Olympics while bowling isn't. What Steve said in other words

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 Post subject: Re: Should bowling be in the Olympics?
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:47 pm Post Number: #20 Post
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Look at all the sports in the Olympics. Each and every one can be practiced outside of a rented facility. Sure, the environment made not be the most desirable, but the basic athletic action can be performed.

My sister was an extremely accomplished gymnast. She got that way by doing back layouts in the yard. All of the Olympic events can be practiced in such a manner.

The intent of Olympic sports appears to based on activities which could emulate a special skill that might be utilized in war. I don't see how bowling satisfies that ideology. Except, I can say, a bowling ball can penetrate a cinder block wall. Don't ask me how I know.

Bowling never needed the Olympics before and it was the most watched program on television. What happened?


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