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 Post subject: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowlers...
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:19 pm Post Number: #1 Post
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watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:38 pm Post Number: #2 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?

Did you mean rotation? or are you talking revolutions?


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:08 pm Post Number: #3 Post
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Yeah he is meaning revs for sure... In Norway revolutions are called "rotasjoner", so rotations. Other languages has similar features.

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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:36 pm Post Number: #4 Post
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axis rotation/revolutions......


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:44 pm Post Number: #5 Post
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Rotation is the angle at which your PAP starts out in comparison to the ball path. Measured in degrees.

Revolutions are how many times the ball rotates measured in revolutions per minute.

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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:21 pm Post Number: #6 Post
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i know the difference , but the question was " how do you get it" ,compared to a norm duke VS the younger players? cup-uncup-cup....more lift....tearing the cover off of the ball? ( i just threw that in).


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:01 am Post Number: #7 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?

From what I have seen, the older players have just as much rotation (If not more). The younger players have on the average more revolutions. My personal opinion is that it has a lot to do with the loss of agility. If you can't bend your knees or pop the ball off your elbow, you will not be at 100%. I am sure the wrist gets older too. I do not think rotation has anything to do with the modern release. Pete Weber can put as much side rotation as he wants to and the players wearing wrist braces can put all the rotation they need onto the ball. Softer releases seem to have more revs so tearing the cover off the ball does not do it. I have met a lot of high rev players who have very weak fingers. You can hardly shake their hands without them complaining.


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:24 am Post Number: #8 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?



I bowled three recreational games with my son-in-Law a couple of days ago. He’s approximately 35 and I’m 61. He throws a very fast, very hard, high rev, moderate-rotation Ball. I get (on the other hand) plenty of rotation, but I have a much slower ball speed down the lane. HIS ball, creates an EXPLOSION of activity with the pins...........mine? Well, when placed correctly, I can still knock em all down.

I realize that placement (entry into the pocket) is a good chunk of a positive end result, and rotation produces better deflection, but his power/speed means a good amount as well!

Sure makes me feel wimpish when I bowl with him!! (lol)

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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:09 pm Post Number: #9 Post
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thanks for the input.....i'm on the right track then about rotation. i get very good rotation for a super senior bowler (73 years young) and more than some of the younger bowlers in my leagues and timing has so much to do with it. i see a lot of bowlers with a lot of speed but they don't have the control or consistency and their balls get a lot of slide down the lane with no friction to create rotation and they can't figure out why they aren't hitting the pocket or getting a lot of splits going on.


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:15 am Post Number: #10 Post
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For lower rev players, getting the ball into the roll phase (skid/hook/roll) at the right moment and early enough is very important. A ball needs to slow down to carry strikes, friction is the name of the game.

As for the original question, getting the hand under the equator of the ball and keeping a loose wrist will create all the revs one needs, that’s why two handers get crazy revs, hand under ball, relaxed wrist because opposite hand is holding the ball through the swing.


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:40 pm Post Number: #11 Post
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Here are three references. Note the OPTIMUM time/stage for the ball to be at pin impact. Funny that ball motion prime of life is when tilt and rotation are in a manner of speaking, in their old age phase ... or perhaps the golden phase of ball motion.

Text and illustration
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... all_Motion

Video
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... er_Bowling

Short animation
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=83Hnl1saOtE

As for imparting RPMs or Revolutions, think of what makes a yo-yo revolve. The faster the wrist move, the faster the yo-yo spins.

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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:02 am Post Number: #12 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?


Modern power players don't lift. They roll and rotate through the ball to create rotation and revolutions. Modern balls don't like lift. The most successful modern bowlers "let" the ball hook, rather than trying to "make" it hook.


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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:48 pm Post Number: #13 Post
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RobMautner wrote:

Modern power players don't lift. They roll and rotate through the ball to create rotation and revolutions. Modern balls don't like lift. The most successful modern bowlers "let" the ball hook, rather than trying to "make" it hook.




Some additional resources via the wiki

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... f_the_ball

The second video by Mohamed Janahi included on the ETBF wiki article
Includes textual annotation and text overlays

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... hing_Video

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4003&p=31686&hilit=Tuttle#p31686

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 Post subject: Re: difference in rotation between senior and younger bowler
 Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:10 pm Post Number: #14 Post
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turbotwister wrote:
watching norm duke VS the younger bowlers for instance....norm duke does get rotation but nothing near the younger players. is it because of the modern release (cup -uncup cup) more or less? i know that timing has a lot to do with your release but does this (cup uncup cup) play a big part in the rotation or is it in the lift that a bowler is giving to the ball also?


It appears that you are referring to revs vs. rotation. It is difficult to visualize the process of what it takes to roll a bowling ball effectively. So, I like to use examples outside the bowling environment.

If we look at a baseball pitcher, what is the difference between someone who can throw a baseball upward of 100 mph vs. someone who can't? The person who can throw a baseball 100 mph utilizes a culmination of muscle groups working together in unison. That is coupled with group of extraordinary set of fast twitch muscles. Add to that list, flexibility of those muscle groups and the psychological ability to perform the task without mental interference. We're not just talking about throwing a ball 100 mph anywhere, but with control too. You can see where age would become a factor.

Rolling a bowling ball can be similar. But rarely, do we ever witness that kind of ability in regular league competition. Let's put it this way, if they were in a league, their name would be EJ Tackett. Mainly, what you are seeing is people forcing certain aspects of the bowling motion which results in the appearance of a high amount of revolutions. Those people are all over the bowling scene.

Age is a determining factor in almost every facet of life, especially in sports. Even as good as Tackett is, when he becomes older, I doubt he'll have the speed, rev rate, and accuracy he exhibits now.

I heard something, a while back, that struck me as funny. Someone commented on Dick Weber as he turned 50. They said, he is finally going to need to learn to bowl, because his instincts are not quite what they used to be. If it can happened to Dick, it definitely happens to every one of us.


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