Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

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soupy1957
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Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by soupy1957 »

No matter WHAT sport you want to talk about, “consistancy” SHOULD “bring good results.” Even in a work environment, in any predictable action/reaction, there should be a bell curve (SPC) that shows predictable results.

So, what happened last night?!

I bowled three games with the son-in-law last night, and my scores went DOWN progressively?!

An experienced Coach could probably pick apart my performance and review lane conditions and so forth, and come up with all KINDS of issues; but to the inexperienced eye (like mine), everything seemed robotically equal to my approach and delivery.

I watch videos of folks reviewing various balls, and each video shows pretty much the same line, and strikes. So either those videos are heavily edited, or I’m doing something drastically wrong and I just don’t see it! Must be both!!

Lane conditions (and changes)
Board choice at approach
Ball handling
Ball

Whatever it is.........likely all........I SUCK at this game!! (lol)
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by pjape »

My gut reaction is your shot-making didn't get worse; you didn't adjust enough to the changing
conditions.

A few weeks ago in league, the anchor on the other team rolled back to back 250 games, and then shot a buck-seventy something in game three. He didn't move far enough left IMHO. He had two big four splits, and still didn't move enough. This guy is a quality bowler. He bowled the USBC Masters, and missed match play by 14 pins, so he's not just a good house bowler.

I've been to numerous PBA tournaments, and it is amazing how good the top guys (and girls!) are at adjusting. Let's face it, at the top level all pros have good physical games. It's the bowlers who keep up with the changes the best and fastest who are winning titles and making money.

Oh, and yes, when we watch ball videos, they ARE heavily edited. They're certainly not going to post bad shots!
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by RobMautner »

Modern bowling balls absorb oil on every trip down the lane. Even if you are bowling by yourself, if you are using a reactive resin ball, you will have to move left (right hander) every three or four frames. Initially, this move is at the arrows, sending the ball out to the same breakpoint. Eventually, however, the oil will be depleted at the end of the pattern as well, necessitating a move left with the breakpoint to find more oil.

Bowlers who don't adjust fast enough invariably find their scores dropping each game.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

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I remember moving 2 or 3 boards left, for my first ball shots, and then staying there, and trying to get a predictable hook..........

How often should I be moving (changing) my start point? Every frame? How many boards each time?

I’ve got a feeling that you’re gonna tell me to move as often as necessary, based on the lane conditions, and as many boards as needed, right?

So perhaps I should ask it THIS way......is there such a thing as moving too MANY boards at a time, or a minimum amount of roles to let the lane tell you it’s story, before moving?
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by TonyPR »

Look at the ball going down the lane, try to identify where it transitions from hook to roll and how it goes through the pins. In a perfect strike for a right hander the ball will knock down the 1,3,5 and split the 8-9 through the middle leaving the pin deck through board 20. What I am going to say is advanced and overly simplified but basically if on a pocket hit you leave any back row pins except the 9, the cause was deflection so move right. If you are leaving the 9, the 4 or the 4-9 then move left. This is for a right hander and like I said it’s overly simplified, many more variables and possible adjustments come into play.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

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TonyPR wrote:Look at the ball going down the lane, try to identify where it transitions from hook to roll and how it goes through the pins. In a perfect strike for a right hander the ball will knock down the 1,3,5 and split the 8-9 through the middle leaving the pin deck through board 20. What I am going to say is advanced and overly simplified but basically if on a pocket hit you leave any back row pins except the 9, the cause was deflection so move right. If you are leaving the 9, the 4 or the 4-9 then move left. This is for a right hander and like I said it’s overly simplified, many more variables and possible adjustments come into play.
Overly simplified is just fine by me, since I am basically overly simplified, myself! (lol)
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by soupy1957 »

soupy1957 wrote:
Overly simplified is just fine by me, since I am basically overly simplified, myself! (lol)

Moving left and moving right accordingly, is an art all by itself. That said however, I’m never quite sure how many boards to move at a time, in any given direction. Do I base it off the left side of my foot? right side of my foot? Which foot?

Thoughts?
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by elgavachon »

soupy1957 wrote:
Overly simplified is just fine by me, since I am basically overly simplified, myself! (lol)

Moving left and moving right accordingly, is an art all by itself. That said however, I’m never quite sure how many boards to move at a time, in any given direction. Do I base it off the left side of my foot? right side of my foot? Which foot?

Thoughts?
There is no one answer. This woud depend on who you were bowling with. I everyone is left of you with more revs, moving left will not help you much. In that case ball down and speed up or find a way to get more length (if possible). When you move left, you have to jump past the burn they have created. There are usually 2 burns on the lane. One from the left out to the break area created by high rev bowlers and the other up the boards to the break area created by the straighter players. If you are up the boards and in the outside burn, it would depend on far left of you the inside burn is. If those bowlers have opened up the burn too close to yours, you cannot move into it. Totally depends on the oil condition/lanes/balls/ and bowlers competing. There is no 1 answer.
I usually line up with my left foot forward, so I like marking the spot with the inside of that foot. Do not like the toe as a mark.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by JohnP »

Moving left and moving right accordingly, is an art all by itself. That said however, I’m never quite sure how many boards to move at a time, in any given direction. Do I base it off the left side of my foot? right side of my foot? Which foot?
For your own purposes it doesn't matter what part of your foot you use to line up as long as you're consistent and use your slide foot. Most bowlers use either the center of the toes or the widest part of the right side (for right handers). If you're trying to compare yourself to others you need to know what part of their foot they're using. -- JohnP
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by RobMautner »

As I said above, each ball that is thrown down the lane absorbs oil and dries out the surface. You are not the only one bowling on the pair. When you move left to find more oil, you have to notice where the other bowlers are playing. If you are in an area by yourself, a two and one move is fine. If, however, a two and one move put you squarely into someone else's line, then a five and three move, or even more, may be called for.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by Nord »

Understanding what is happening to the friction path of the lane for your particular ball and style of release is the greatest challenge and greatest frustration for bowlers.
I understand all to well what it is like to become a victim of the lanes.
Things can go from good to bad to worse very quickly.
If you are playing with a lot of bowlers with reactive resin balls who are throwing around your target line then you can get into trouble.

Assuming you are very accurate and can hit 1 or 2 boards at the arrows consistently, then you can make moves and see the results.
But if you are inconsistent, then you are worse off because you need to make a good shot first before you can know what move to make.

For me there can be a a further challenge since I use urethane balls, often with zero flare potential and they do the opposite of Resin balls, they don't take oil away, they paint it down the lane depositing it in the backend which will make balls, especially Resin balls, lose their backend grip and hitting power.

When you start hitting the pocket and that flat 10 pin (6 pin falls over weakly into the gutter and 10 pin left standing) then you know your ball is deflecting off the pocket when hit hits.
You can move a little right to square up, or slow your ball speed a touch to get the ball to roll a little earlier, or you can grab a stronger ball that will roll through the carry down.

There are so many things, situations and adjustments and this is the game of Bowling today.
Why do you think the pros have a staff of ball experts sitting being them watching every ball go down the lane and advising them on what to do?

I want my own staff of ball experts to help me each night in league!

It is no longer Action Bowling of the 50's and 60's anymore, one man, one ball and a pocket full of cash.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by TonyPR »

Quoting Mo: “every back row pin we leave except for the 9 for right handers (8 for lefties) is caused by deflection, we call it a flat ten or a ringing ten because we just want to feel good about ourselves”. “9 pins for right handers (8 for lefties) are strong hits, the 4-9 is even a stronger hit”.

I have acquired the knowledge to be my own ball rep, the information is there and is not really that difficult to learn but many people including pros are either to lazy or think it’s too difficult. Bowling has definitely become a smarter sport, similar to golf which has many variables coming into play and different clubs and training equipment. Don’t think I want to go back to the old days, it’s way more interesting now. Want to know why PDW, Norm Duke and Walter Ray have stood the test of time? They adjusted and learned as the game changed instead of living in the nostalgia of the past. Many pros of the 80’s and 90’s never learned how to adjust their game to reactive resin and therefore we don’t hear about them anymore.
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by Nord »

TonyPR wrote:Quoting Mo: “every back row pin we leave except for the 9 for right handers (8 for lefties) is caused by deflection.
I thought the 7 pin being left was caused by a too high hit?
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by bowl1820 »

TonyPR wrote:Quoting Mo: “every back row pin we leave except for the 9 for right handers (8 for lefties) is caused by deflection.
Nord wrote: I thought the 7 pin being left was caused by a too high hit?
Mo also said:
TonyPR wrote:In the above180 Ball Drilling for Dummies podcast series, Mo states that every 10 pin, doesn't matter if it's a solid 10 or a ringing 10, is a weak hit and is caused by deflection. He also states that pins left in the back row, except the 9 pin and sometimes the 7 pin, are weak hits.
referenced series here:
http://above180.com/category/ball-drill ... es-series/
also
Mo Pinel wrote:
5) When you're leaving pins in the back row, your ball is not slowing down enough, or you're missing your breakpoint location!

"Nuff said!
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by Nord »

bowl1820 wrote:He also states that pins left in the back row, except the 9 pin and sometimes the 7 pin, are weak hits.
That makes more sense. Thanks!
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Re: Consistancy Doesn’t Breed Repeatability?

Post by TonyPR »

Most 7 pins are caused by deflection but yeah I missed that part about “sometimes” (as in not all the time) they are caused by a strong hit, so Nord yeah it makes “more sense” that you win again...
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