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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:43 pm Post Number: #41 Post
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Dustin wrote:
I would still like to see studies about bringing back the old 4 lbs. pins.


So would I. From past experience 4 lb wood would not solve problems as it would create problems for women, youth and seniors. The heavier PBA Gold pins of a few years ago actually helped the higher rev players by keeping the pins low and thus actually helped the scoring for many. If a solution was the pin then we should simply go back to 3-6 PLASTIC coated single voided wood and probably see the scores drop 10%.

Integrity of the game is related to longevity of the pattern which broken down properly can result in higher scoring but not broken down properly can create dysfunctional scoring. Which one has more "integrity" is open to discussion. The scoring "problem" is related to the "pattern integrity" issue as they, can be an interrelated issue whether overtly stated or not.

If THE issue is scoring than make the balls 50 thousandths of an inch bigger and go back to single voided plastic coated pins and the issued would be resolved.

Bill Taylor, starting in the early 1960s, informed us small balls scored higher and the USBC (ABC) in allowing the use ofdouble voided pins would create scoring with questionable integrity. Knowledge of history is a valuable tool.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:49 pm Post Number: #42 Post
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Baseball is always manipulating the playing conditions, maybe not the best example to depict.

Let's look at sports that have a standardized playing field, basketball and football. Just about everyone can dunk in the NBA, they didn't raise the rim. In football, what used to be a rare feet, the 50+ yard field goal is now common. They didn't move the goal post back. Neither sport changed the ball either, at least not at the professional level. But, at the intermediate level all kinds of different equipment exist.

So, if it is the professionals that require consistent equipment across the board in other sports, why does bowling continue to penalize Average Joe Bowler?


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:20 pm Post Number: #43 Post
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This is a personal opinion but I believe that the bulk of the reason to give 3 oz of statics is that with so many amateurs drilling balls now days that no ability to weigh balls they have simply given up.

Also at nationals they are probably tired of weighing balls. Now they just will all pass. I've seen so many pissed off bowlers at nationals come in balls with 2 oz of side and when the ball was corrected they can't get a reaction. They may be ignorant of the lane condition but they believe the hole in the ball ruined it.

I also believe the 3 oz. is way too high. I've seen too many balls that when you added or took out side weight the ball reaction changed significantly. And the difference between 3 oz of positive side to a ball with 3 oz of negative would be significant.

Over all I find the rule changes non factors with the 3 oz. statics being lazy.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:36 pm Post Number: #44 Post
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Allowing for filling of balance holes, the 3oz rule is practically mandatory to guarantee that the balls will remain legal.
Another side effect of the 3oz rule is that the concept of pin-in and pin-out balls is effectively finished.
Even "X-out" balls with very long pins are really no different than "perfect balls" with 3-4" pins, in terms of drilling flexibility and post-drilling core dynamics.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:54 am Post Number: #45 Post
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https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622331019

cut and pasted from the Article on Bowl.com

"The specification requiring a bowling ball’s oil absorption rate to be more than 2:15 for the ball to be approved will take effect Aug. 1, 2020. Also, any ball models tested where the average oil absorption rate is under nine minutes and 30 seconds (9:30) will require additional balls to be tested."

9 minutes and 30 seconds seems to be the goal. Practically a regular urethane.

Brunswick has been bringing back Vintage ball releases. Now it seems that we are going back to those Vintage days of bowling. Hmm, did they have insight into what the USBC was going to do?

I would think that there will be people stocking up on their favorite balls of today. To bad my favorite ones have balance holes in them.
We will still see the oil suckers out there for quite a while. I'm guessing they will be pushed out of use with lighter oil patterns.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:39 am Post Number: #46 Post
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This is USBC. I wonder what would be World Bowling's position would be. Or are they just going to follow suit?

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:02 pm Post Number: #47 Post
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crashin12x wrote:
This is USBC. I wonder what would be World Bowling's position would be. Or are they just going to follow suit?


World Bowling has operated as a separate entity. When USBC changed the ruling to no changing of ball surface once practice begins, World Bowling did not follow suit.

I think all the SHEEP work for Chad Murphy at USBC. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:58 pm Post Number: #48 Post
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JMerrell wrote:

World Bowling has operated as a separate entity. When USBC changed the ruling to no changing of ball surface once practice begins, World Bowling did not follow suit.

I think all the SHEEP work for Chad Murphy at USBC. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Why are they sheep? Its interesting what people will say about other people behind a keyboard.

You may not agree with what USBC did, but to say that I believe is irresponsible. You don't know what arguments or disagreements they had. You don't know what was proposed and turned down during this time (a la turning back the diff numbers).


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:01 pm Post Number: #49 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622331019

cut and pasted from the Article on Bowl.com

"The specification requiring a bowling ball’s oil absorption rate to be more than 2:15 for the ball to be approved will take effect Aug. 1, 2020. Also, any ball models tested where the average oil absorption rate is under nine minutes and 30 seconds (9:30) will require additional balls to be tested."

9 minutes and 30 seconds seems to be the goal. Practically a regular urethane.

Brunswick has been bringing back Vintage ball releases. Now it seems that we are going back to those Vintage days of bowling. Hmm, did they have insight into what the USBC was going to do?

I would think that there will be people stocking up on their favorite balls of today. To bad my favorite ones have balance holes in them.
We will still see the oil suckers out there for quite a while. I'm guessing they will be pushed out of use with lighter oil patterns.


You do know that there is not one ball on today's market that would fail today's oil soaking test? At least that is what has been told.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:32 pm Post Number: #50 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
You do know that there is not one ball on today's market that would fail today's oil soaking test? At least that is what has been told.

All current balls are grandfathered in. I dont think your statement is 100% accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:34 pm Post Number: #51 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Brunswick has been bringing back Vintage ball releases. Now it seems that we are going back to those Vintage days of bowling. Hmm, did they have insight into what the USBC was going to do?


You do realize all of those coverstocks are modern covers and not the originals right?
Even the core shapes are modified. The Danger Zone remake doesnt have the Bismuth Graphite Nucleus.

USBC rules state:

Quote:
Material

3. The density of any piece/component in a ball (e.g. core, coverstock, weight block, etc.) shall not exceed 3.80 g/mL (i.e., no pure metals or high density materials).

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:00 pm Post Number: #52 Post
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"The specification requiring a bowling ball’s oil absorption rate to be more than 2:15 for the ball to be approved will take effect Aug. 1, 2020. Also, any ball models tested where the average oil absorption rate is under nine minutes and 30 seconds (9:30) will require additional balls to be tested."

As I read it, If a bowling ball’s oil absorption rate is more than 2min 15sec the ball will be approved.

So if a ball had a absorption rate of say 5mins it would be approved for use, But if it had a absorption rate of 1min it wouldn't be. That seems pretty straight forward.

And if the "average oil absorption rate" for a ball is in between 2:15 & 9:30 they'll have to double check because your starting to push against the edge of the envelope.

I assume the oil absorption rates for balls will be kept secret (or at least not readily available to the public) like the coefficient of friction of balls which is not published and not be used in marketing etc.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:11 pm Post Number: #53 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
You do know that there is not one ball on today's market that would fail today's oil soaking test? At least that is what has been told.


MegaMav wrote:
All current balls are grandfathered in. I dont think your statement is 100% accurate.

Take this for what you will, I don't know how accurate it is:

This was posted by a Luke Rosdahl over on BR.com the other day.

"It was apparently said by Chad in the media conference call last night that NO current cover falls outside the acceptable absorption range, the fastest absorption rate on the market right now is 2.38."

he also added this to a video he posted on youtube talking about the changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upLo509wBdE
"
Luke Rosdahl
1 day ago (edited)
UPDATE: No currently approved or available ball on the market exceeds the oil absorption limits, so there will need to be no dialing back of cover strength. The line was just drawn to keep anything from going any further, so strengths of balls and covers will NOT be throttled or reduced by the new absorption specifications. "

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm Post Number: #54 Post
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MegaMav wrote:
All current balls are grandfathered in. I dont think your statement is 100% accurate.


This is what was told to us at the "Call in" for Pro Shops. I can only say what was told to us by the horses mouth.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:30 pm Post Number: #55 Post
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bowl1820 wrote:
Luke Rosdahl
1 day ago (edited)
UPDATE: No currently approved or available ball on the market exceeds the oil absorption limits, so there will need to be no dialing back of cover strength. The line was just drawn to keep anything from going any further, so strengths of balls and covers will NOT be throttled or reduced by the new absorption specifications. "


Didnt see you posted this. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:38 pm Post Number: #56 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:
It's interesting what people will say about other people behind a keyboard.

Don't underestimate an American Veteran, given the chance I'd say the say thing to his face in Dallas at JOG.

You may not agree with what USBC did, but to say that I believe is irresponsible.
You are entitled to your opinion, even if it has no value to me!


You don't know what arguments or disagreements they had. You don't know what was proposed and turned down during this time (a la turning back the diff numbers).

Correct, that's because USBC chose not to issue any kind of proposal for those affected.......just a statement....this is how it's going to be.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:39 pm Post Number: #57 Post
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MeNoRevs wrote:

This is what was told to us at the "Call in" for Pro Shops. I can only say what was told to us by the horses mouth.

Here's a link to the

USBC Equipment Specifications Media Conference (4-24-2018)
The Sport of Bowling – USBC

Listen in to today's media conference as USBC staff and members of the USBC Equipment and Specifications Committee answer questions about today's announcement regarding new equipment specifications.

https://www.facebook.com/usbc/videos/10156099212815336/

At about the 17 min. mark they start talking about the oil absorption

Also from the Changes FAQ:
Attachment:
2018BTS-FAQ.pdf

5. What is the reason for the oil absorption specification being set at no lower than
two minutes, 15 seconds (2:15)?

Today, the lowest approved ball is two minutes, 38 seconds (2:38). There have been no
submitted ball samples for approved models that have fallen below two minutes, 15
seconds (2:15), since USBC started testing for oil absorption (approximately 800 balls to
date).


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:09 pm Post Number: #58 Post
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Yeah this stinks for us pro shop ball drillers that use p1-or weight holes for fine running... doh..all balls before Jan 2020 will be grandfathered into the oil absorption rule. In 2040 the balls are gonna be worth a mint.. unless ofcourse centers start putting out less oil


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:28 pm Post Number: #59 Post
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Rockmd wrote:
Yeah this stinks for us pro shop ball drillers that use p1-or weight holes for fine running... doh..all balls before Jan 2020 will be grandfathered into the oil absorption rule. In 2040 the balls are gonna be worth a mint.. unless ofcourse centers start putting out less oil


Why would they be worth so much? They can still make balls with the same absorbion rate as they do now?


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:02 pm Post Number: #60 Post
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From the FAQ
"The current slowest oil absorption time for a reactive resin bowling ball measured is two hours, 28 minutes, and 37 seconds (2:28:37). Though, most reactive balls fall within the range of three minutes to one hour. "

WOW, Two and a half hours!! They got post a ball list!

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