USBC New Ball Specs

You can post any bowling related topics here.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
soupy1957
Member
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
Preferred Company: Storm
Location: Connecticut

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by soupy1957 » May 24th, 2018, 7:57 am

pocket710guy wrote:Another question. Will we be seeing more longer pin balls, more shorter pin balls or will things not change a whole lot?

Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc

User avatar
flibblesh
Member
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: November 4th, 2014, 9:05 am
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by flibblesh » May 24th, 2018, 9:50 am

soupy1957 wrote:

Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”
Ball Pin Length is the distance between the Pin (that spot that's usually near your finger holes) and the CG.
Steven Bourgaize

Rev Rate: Roughly 300
Ball Weight: 15lb
PAP: Smear
Span: Teeny

Arkansas
BCU Graduate Layouts
BCU Graduate Layouts
Posts: 477
Joined: January 24th, 2012, 11:02 pm
Positive Axis Point: 4 1/2 Left x 3/4 Up
Speed: 18.5 off Hand
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 17
Axis Rotation: 55
Heavy Oil Ball: Guru Mighty
Medium Oil Ball: Guru
Light Oil Ball: Torrid Affair
Preferred Company: Radical

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by Arkansas » May 24th, 2018, 2:34 pm

soupy1957 wrote:

Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”
Pin distance refers to the distance from the riser pin, marking the low RG axis, and the CG stamp, marking the center of gravity of the ball.

Pin goes with shorter or longer, not ball. Long pin ball, short pin ball.
James Talley

User avatar
rrb6699
Member
Member
Posts: 791
Joined: June 22nd, 2013, 12:24 am
THS Average: 226
Positive Axis Point: 4 7/16 ovr, 3/4 up
Speed: 17.5 mph at pin deck
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Sur Lock, Frenzy 500grit, Guru Mstr, Alpha -all 15#
Medium Oil Ball: 16# Quantum Violet, Grenade, Blk Udot,15#-Mojave
Light Oil Ball: 15#: StarTrak Ureth -Sky Blue, 16# Grudge Hybrid/Solid
Preferred Company: Radical, MoRich, RotoGrip
Location: Central Florida

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by rrb6699 » June 7th, 2018, 1:58 pm

I don't expect everyone to agree with this post, but, I am bringing up some notable points here...

I've pretty much stayed out of the discussion on thes rule changes. to me it's an all out attack on "2-handed" bowlers. high rev players have an advantage but then low revs players also do as well. once head oil is depleted high rev bowlers lose advantage to lower rev players. it's always been this way. even back in the days of urethane and plastic.

I can't believe usbc is making the rule change to "preserve the lane pattern" almost laughable. it's just gonna change the pattern in a different way.. (more carrydown)

I think you cannot test this rule change with a robot. a robot cannot take into consideration a lot of variables like how a 3oz sideweight (finger, bottom, negative weight)
ball will lay in your hand and the type of turn it will cause from bowler to bowler. I get a totally different skid roll with a lot of sideweight and I can hook the ball around corners with it. To others it will have a detriment on hook.
You cant tell me a ball with 3oz of finger 's bottom weight, side vs negative weight will roll or act the same for each bowler.

All of what you say is true about static weight affects on ball motion - with the robot. but, it's gonna help a different set of bowlers positively who can take advantage of the new offset allowance(s) because of their technique.

To me they rob Peter to pay Paul on weight holes. now you can offset the core orientation more to compensate for tweaking with a weight hole. I'm not sure how much but to me 2oz of balance difference from the current 1 ounce limitation is about how much a weight hole's volume is on average.

now you can have 5 gripping holes? isn't that the same? are they gonna watch every shot to make sure you use the 4 or 5 holes? a pinky hole would act as a balance hole would it not? why allow up to 5 "grip" holes ? to me this just begs for rule stretching on whether or not they act or are used as balance holes. a good bowler can use the extra hole(s) without really "using" them. so, they would still be balance holes.

what if a "2-hander" has 3 or 4 holes? he can use them all still. the only bowlers that really get hit on this are one-handed 2 finger bowlers because ala Tom Daughtery-type bowlers only use 2 holes. there are a lot of these guys. a 2-hander (ala A. J. Rice) uses his thumb but looks like a 2-hander, 2-finger bowler until you notice he uses his thumb. these guys are three-hole bowlers who keep both hands on the ball during their swing.

what does the rule change? not much in my opinion. ball drillers will just drill balls to compensate for the would-be hole location and a lot of ball plug will be sold.

so, they're taking away one thing and giving it back in a different form.

I do see lane oil reduction in the future. oh there will still be the heavy volume sport and challenge patterns, but for the most part house shots are the main oil expense a proprietor has. so how much oil (expense) are we really talking here to oil an entire house? not that much. it adds up over time. but, less oil- it will affect ball friction. that adds to surface wear. in turn causes more friction. shorter lane surface life-cycle.

for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction...
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.

pocket710guy
Member
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 8:24 pm
Preferred Company: Roto Grip

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by pocket710guy » June 15th, 2018, 7:43 am

rrb6699 wrote:I don't expect everyone to agree with this post, but, I am bringing up some notable points here...

I've pretty much stayed out of the discussion on thes rule changes. to me it's an all out attack on "2-handed" bowlers. high rev players have an advantage but then low revs players also do as well. once head oil is depleted high rev bowlers lose advantage to lower rev players. it's always been this way. even back in the days of urethane and plastic.

I can't believe usbc is making the rule change to "preserve the lane pattern" almost laughable. it's just gonna change the pattern in a different way.. (more carrydown)

I think you cannot test this rule change with a robot. a robot cannot take into consideration a lot of variables like how a 3oz sideweight (finger, bottom, negative weight)
ball will lay in your hand and the type of turn it will cause from bowler to bowler. I get a totally different skid roll with a lot of sideweight and I can hook the ball around corners with it. To others it will have a detriment on hook.
You cant tell me a ball with 3oz of finger 's bottom weight, side vs negative weight will roll or act the same for each bowler.

All of what you say is true about static weight affects on ball motion - with the robot. but, it's gonna help a different set of bowlers positively who can take advantage of the new offset allowance(s) because of their technique.

To me they rob Peter to pay Paul on weight holes. now you can offset the core orientation more to compensate for tweaking with a weight hole. I'm not sure how much but to me 2oz of balance difference from the current 1 ounce limitation is about how much a weight hole's volume is on average.

now you can have 5 gripping holes? isn't that the same? are they gonna watch every shot to make sure you use the 4 or 5 holes? a pinky hole would act as a balance hole would it not? why allow up to 5 "grip" holes ? to me this just begs for rule stretching on whether or not they act or are used as balance holes. a good bowler can use the extra hole(s) without really "using" them. so, they would still be balance holes.

what if a "2-hander" has 3 or 4 holes? he can use them all still. the only bowlers that really get hit on this are one-handed 2 finger bowlers because ala Tom Daughtery-type bowlers only use 2 holes. there are a lot of these guys. a 2-hander (ala A. J. Rice) uses his thumb but looks like a 2-hander, 2-finger bowler until you notice he uses his thumb. these guys are three-hole bowlers who keep both hands on the ball during their swing.

what does the rule change? not much in my opinion. ball drillers will just drill balls to compensate for the would-be hole location and a lot of ball plug will be sold.

so, they're taking away one thing and giving it back in a different form.

I do see lane oil reduction in the future. oh there will still be the heavy volume sport and challenge patterns, but for the most part house shots are the main oil expense a proprietor has. so how much oil (expense) are we really talking here to oil an entire house? not that much. it adds up over time. but, less oil- it will affect ball friction. that adds to surface wear. in turn causes more friction. shorter lane surface life-cycle.

for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction...
It's an attack on ball drillers. So if the USBC doesn't want higher flaring balls maybe we should go back to just using plastic and urethane. How about we outlaw all weight blocks next? How about we just stop bowling period? I think the USBC and it's president should do some data on how many small houses have closed up in the 20 years because of their policies. They haven't done anything to grow the sport, if anything they have done the exact opposite.

JohnP
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3432
Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
Axis Tilt: 13
Axis Rotation: 45
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by JohnP » June 15th, 2018, 8:25 pm

It's an attack on ball drillers.
No, if anything it's an attack on the bowlers. Ball drillers are going to get a lot of business plugging balance holes (easy money). Then they'll be able to drill a ball without worrying about meeting the previously restrictive static weight limits. As long as they use balls with 3 oz or less top weight and keep the cg on the top half of the ball they can put the holes almost anywhere. -- JohnP

User avatar
MeNoRevs
Pro Shop
Pro Shop
Posts: 302
Joined: January 19th, 2010, 11:28 pm
THS Average: 120
Positive Axis Point: 5 3/4 x 1 ^
Preferred Company: I prefer them all
Location: Southern Maryland

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MeNoRevs » June 15th, 2018, 8:43 pm

pocket710guy wrote:
It's an attack on ball drillers. So if the USBC doesn't want higher flaring balls maybe we should go back to just using plastic and urethane.
When did surface dictate flare?

User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4474
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 230
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 3/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Method Solid
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » June 15th, 2018, 9:10 pm

JohnP wrote:
No, if anything it's an attack on the bowlers. Ball drillers are going to get a lot of business plugging balance holes (easy money). Then they'll be able to drill a ball without worrying about meeting the previously restrictive static weight limits. As long as they use balls with 3 oz or less top weight and keep the cg on the top half of the ball they can put the holes almost anywhere. -- JohnP
It still will be harder to satisfy the customer without the ability to tune with a balance hole.
Will need to go after drilling the thumb hole deeper to tune UP, thats all we get now.
VISE IT will not allow that. Even harder. Drillers better be sharp on their layouts now.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

User avatar
EricHartwell
Trusted Source
Trusted Source
Posts: 3592
Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
Speed: 16 off hand
Rev Rate: 330
Axis Tilt: 12
Axis Rotation: 45
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous
Medium Oil Ball: Motiv Villain, Hammer Nail, Brunswick True Motion
Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer, Columbia Nitrous
Location: Michigan

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by EricHartwell » June 16th, 2018, 2:31 am

MegaMav wrote:
It still will be harder to satisfy the customer without the ability to tune with a balance hole.
Will need to go after drilling the thumb hole deeper to tune UP, thats all we get now.
VISE IT will not allow that. Even harder. Drillers better be sharp on their layouts now.
Don't forget about drilling of the fingers deeper to weaken ball reactions. It is also a way to create more Asymmetry in a drilling.
Eric Hartwell

Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand

User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4474
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 230
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 3/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Method Solid
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » June 16th, 2018, 2:16 pm

EricHartwell wrote: Don't forget about drilling of the fingers deeper to weaken ball reactions. It is also a way to create more Asymmetry in a drilling.
Its doesnt have much effect in terms of weakening.
It raises the diff ratio slightly.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... les_Deeper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

User avatar
rrb6699
Member
Member
Posts: 791
Joined: June 22nd, 2013, 12:24 am
THS Average: 226
Positive Axis Point: 4 7/16 ovr, 3/4 up
Speed: 17.5 mph at pin deck
Rev Rate: 360
Axis Tilt: 15
Axis Rotation: 65
Heavy Oil Ball: Sur Lock, Frenzy 500grit, Guru Mstr, Alpha -all 15#
Medium Oil Ball: 16# Quantum Violet, Grenade, Blk Udot,15#-Mojave
Light Oil Ball: 15#: StarTrak Ureth -Sky Blue, 16# Grudge Hybrid/Solid
Preferred Company: Radical, MoRich, RotoGrip
Location: Central Florida

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by rrb6699 » June 16th, 2018, 7:01 pm

I thought they were limits on how deep the fingers could be also in the new rule
Tweenr-RH
300-(15) 290-(37) 280-(31)
Ser-1075-4gm, 867-3gm
speed dominant
Tilt: low°, Ax Rot: ~....°, PAP: 3 7/8 over- 1/2 up; Speed: 17.5mph Avg downlane
Several Wins/Top 5 Finishes-scr/hdcp tournaments.

User avatar
MegaMav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4474
Joined: April 27th, 2007, 5:00 am
THS Average: 230
Sport Average: 200
Positive Axis Point: 4 15/16 Over 3/8 Up
Speed: 15.25 MPH - Camera
Rev Rate: 350
Axis Tilt: 14
Axis Rotation: 40
Heavy Oil Ball: Radical - The Closer
Medium Oil Ball: Brunswck - Method Solid
Light Oil Ball: DV8 - Poison Pearl
Preferred Company: Radical Bowling Technologies
Location: Malta, NY

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » June 16th, 2018, 8:25 pm

rrb6699 wrote:I thought they were limits on how deep the fingers could be also in the new rule
Show your work.
“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh

User avatar
Nord
Member
Member
Posts: 771
Joined: September 8th, 2012, 9:12 am
THS Average: 180
Speed: 12-14 mph at Foul Line
Rev Rate: 120
Axis Tilt: 0
Axis Rotation: 90
Heavy Oil Ball: Visionary Midnight Scorcher Particle Urethane
Medium Oil Ball: DV8 Poison
Light Oil Ball: Brunswick True Motion

Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by Nord » June 17th, 2018, 3:21 am

MegaMav wrote:
Its doesnt have much effect in terms of weakening.
It raises the diff ratio slightly.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... les_Deeper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Note: For Full Rollers, drilling the finger holes deeper does greatly increase the differential and flare.

Did you read the latest release?
The static weight increases will now be allowed to be implemented as of August 1 of 2018.

https://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.a ... 3622331380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
PAP: 6 3/16 x 2 5/8
Rev rate: 110
Ball speed: 10 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 180
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 683 clean using the DV8 Poison Solid.

Post Reply