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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:57 am Post Number: #161 Post
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pocket710guy wrote:
Another question. Will we be seeing more longer pin balls, more shorter pin balls or will things not change a whole lot?



Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:50 am Post Number: #162 Post
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soupy1957 wrote:


Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”


Ball Pin Length is the distance between the Pin (that spot that's usually near your finger holes) and the CG.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:34 pm Post Number: #163 Post
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soupy1957 wrote:


Huh????? What the heck is a “pin ball?”


Pin distance refers to the distance from the riser pin, marking the low RG axis, and the CG stamp, marking the center of gravity of the ball.

Pin goes with shorter or longer, not ball. Long pin ball, short pin ball.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:58 pm Post Number: #164 Post
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I don't expect everyone to agree with this post, but, I am bringing up some notable points here...

I've pretty much stayed out of the discussion on thes rule changes. to me it's an all out attack on "2-handed" bowlers. high rev players have an advantage but then low revs players also do as well. once head oil is depleted high rev bowlers lose advantage to lower rev players. it's always been this way. even back in the days of urethane and plastic.

I can't believe usbc is making the rule change to "preserve the lane pattern" almost laughable. it's just gonna change the pattern in a different way.. (more carrydown)

I think you cannot test this rule change with a robot. a robot cannot take into consideration a lot of variables like how a 3oz sideweight (finger, bottom, negative weight)
ball will lay in your hand and the type of turn it will cause from bowler to bowler. I get a totally different skid roll with a lot of sideweight and I can hook the ball around corners with it. To others it will have a detriment on hook.
You cant tell me a ball with 3oz of finger 's bottom weight, side vs negative weight will roll or act the same for each bowler.

All of what you say is true about static weight affects on ball motion - with the robot. but, it's gonna help a different set of bowlers positively who can take advantage of the new offset allowance(s) because of their technique.

To me they rob Peter to pay Paul on weight holes. now you can offset the core orientation more to compensate for tweaking with a weight hole. I'm not sure how much but to me 2oz of balance difference from the current 1 ounce limitation is about how much a weight hole's volume is on average.

now you can have 5 gripping holes? isn't that the same? are they gonna watch every shot to make sure you use the 4 or 5 holes? a pinky hole would act as a balance hole would it not? why allow up to 5 "grip" holes ? to me this just begs for rule stretching on whether or not they act or are used as balance holes. a good bowler can use the extra hole(s) without really "using" them. so, they would still be balance holes.

what if a "2-hander" has 3 or 4 holes? he can use them all still. the only bowlers that really get hit on this are one-handed 2 finger bowlers because ala Tom Daughtery-type bowlers only use 2 holes. there are a lot of these guys. a 2-hander (ala A. J. Rice) uses his thumb but looks like a 2-hander, 2-finger bowler until you notice he uses his thumb. these guys are three-hole bowlers who keep both hands on the ball during their swing.

what does the rule change? not much in my opinion. ball drillers will just drill balls to compensate for the would-be hole location and a lot of ball plug will be sold.

so, they're taking away one thing and giving it back in a different form.

I do see lane oil reduction in the future. oh there will still be the heavy volume sport and challenge patterns, but for the most part house shots are the main oil expense a proprietor has. so how much oil (expense) are we really talking here to oil an entire house? not that much. it adds up over time. but, less oil- it will affect ball friction. that adds to surface wear. in turn causes more friction. shorter lane surface life-cycle.

for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction...

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:43 am Post Number: #165 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
I don't expect everyone to agree with this post, but, I am bringing up some notable points here...

I've pretty much stayed out of the discussion on thes rule changes. to me it's an all out attack on "2-handed" bowlers. high rev players have an advantage but then low revs players also do as well. once head oil is depleted high rev bowlers lose advantage to lower rev players. it's always been this way. even back in the days of urethane and plastic.

I can't believe usbc is making the rule change to "preserve the lane pattern" almost laughable. it's just gonna change the pattern in a different way.. (more carrydown)

I think you cannot test this rule change with a robot. a robot cannot take into consideration a lot of variables like how a 3oz sideweight (finger, bottom, negative weight)
ball will lay in your hand and the type of turn it will cause from bowler to bowler. I get a totally different skid roll with a lot of sideweight and I can hook the ball around corners with it. To others it will have a detriment on hook.
You cant tell me a ball with 3oz of finger 's bottom weight, side vs negative weight will roll or act the same for each bowler.

All of what you say is true about static weight affects on ball motion - with the robot. but, it's gonna help a different set of bowlers positively who can take advantage of the new offset allowance(s) because of their technique.

To me they rob Peter to pay Paul on weight holes. now you can offset the core orientation more to compensate for tweaking with a weight hole. I'm not sure how much but to me 2oz of balance difference from the current 1 ounce limitation is about how much a weight hole's volume is on average.

now you can have 5 gripping holes? isn't that the same? are they gonna watch every shot to make sure you use the 4 or 5 holes? a pinky hole would act as a balance hole would it not? why allow up to 5 "grip" holes ? to me this just begs for rule stretching on whether or not they act or are used as balance holes. a good bowler can use the extra hole(s) without really "using" them. so, they would still be balance holes.

what if a "2-hander" has 3 or 4 holes? he can use them all still. the only bowlers that really get hit on this are one-handed 2 finger bowlers because ala Tom Daughtery-type bowlers only use 2 holes. there are a lot of these guys. a 2-hander (ala A. J. Rice) uses his thumb but looks like a 2-hander, 2-finger bowler until you notice he uses his thumb. these guys are three-hole bowlers who keep both hands on the ball during their swing.

what does the rule change? not much in my opinion. ball drillers will just drill balls to compensate for the would-be hole location and a lot of ball plug will be sold.

so, they're taking away one thing and giving it back in a different form.

I do see lane oil reduction in the future. oh there will still be the heavy volume sport and challenge patterns, but for the most part house shots are the main oil expense a proprietor has. so how much oil (expense) are we really talking here to oil an entire house? not that much. it adds up over time. but, less oil- it will affect ball friction. that adds to surface wear. in turn causes more friction. shorter lane surface life-cycle.

for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction...


It's an attack on ball drillers. So if the USBC doesn't want higher flaring balls maybe we should go back to just using plastic and urethane. How about we outlaw all weight blocks next? How about we just stop bowling period? I think the USBC and it's president should do some data on how many small houses have closed up in the 20 years because of their policies. They haven't done anything to grow the sport, if anything they have done the exact opposite.


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:25 pm Post Number: #166 Post
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Quote:
It's an attack on ball drillers.


No, if anything it's an attack on the bowlers. Ball drillers are going to get a lot of business plugging balance holes (easy money). Then they'll be able to drill a ball without worrying about meeting the previously restrictive static weight limits. As long as they use balls with 3 oz or less top weight and keep the cg on the top half of the ball they can put the holes almost anywhere. -- JohnP


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:43 pm Post Number: #167 Post
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pocket710guy wrote:

It's an attack on ball drillers. So if the USBC doesn't want higher flaring balls maybe we should go back to just using plastic and urethane.


When did surface dictate flare?


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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:10 pm Post Number: #168 Post
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JohnP wrote:

No, if anything it's an attack on the bowlers. Ball drillers are going to get a lot of business plugging balance holes (easy money). Then they'll be able to drill a ball without worrying about meeting the previously restrictive static weight limits. As long as they use balls with 3 oz or less top weight and keep the cg on the top half of the ball they can put the holes almost anywhere. -- JohnP


It still will be harder to satisfy the customer without the ability to tune with a balance hole.
Will need to go after drilling the thumb hole deeper to tune UP, thats all we get now.
VISE IT will not allow that. Even harder. Drillers better be sharp on their layouts now.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:31 am Post Number: #169 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

It still will be harder to satisfy the customer without the ability to tune with a balance hole.
Will need to go after drilling the thumb hole deeper to tune UP, thats all we get now.
VISE IT will not allow that. Even harder. Drillers better be sharp on their layouts now.

Don't forget about drilling of the fingers deeper to weaken ball reactions. It is also a way to create more Asymmetry in a drilling.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:16 pm Post Number: #170 Post
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EricHartwell wrote:
Don't forget about drilling of the fingers deeper to weaken ball reactions. It is also a way to create more Asymmetry in a drilling.


Its doesnt have much effect in terms of weakening.
It raises the diff ratio slightly.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... les_Deeper

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:01 pm Post Number: #171 Post
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I thought they were limits on how deep the fingers could be also in the new rule

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:25 pm Post Number: #172 Post
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rrb6699 wrote:
I thought they were limits on how deep the fingers could be also in the new rule


Show your work.

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 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:21 am Post Number: #173 Post
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MegaMav wrote:

Its doesnt have much effect in terms of weakening.
It raises the diff ratio slightly.

http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... les_Deeper

Note: For Full Rollers, drilling the finger holes deeper does greatly increase the differential and flare.

Did you read the latest release?
The static weight increases will now be allowed to be implemented as of August 1 of 2018.

https://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.a ... 3622331380

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