Board index » General Forums » General Bowling




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 173 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:17 pm Post Number: #121 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: December 7, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: Guadalajara, Jalisco. México.
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
Thank you very much for your soon response (elgavachon).
A few months ago I finished a study of the market that I attend. Among other results, information tells me that the average time in which my clients buy a new ball is 22 months. Of course that goes from the player who buys their preferred brand new ball, to the one who buys a ball every 5 years.
If we already know that the specifications have changed, why wait until 01/01/20? This surely will bring problems with customers. We will make them incur into expenses that could have been avoided, and in addition, when we plug the balance hole in 2020, they will have a different ball reaction, which will surely make us to plug completely the ball and make a new layout... and, more expenses for the customer.
In my opinion, both specifications must coexist from now on. And the strategy would be to define along with the client which one he prefers, explaining to him the consequences of one and another.
Balls with balance hole may not exceed the current specification static weights and balls without balance hole may be within the new specification.
After all, what will change in the laws of Physics in 20 months?
I take this opportunity to thank all those who make this, the best bowling forum of the world.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:20 am Post Number: #122 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 8, 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Connecticut
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
The best part about all this; the saving grace; is that you don’t have to do ANYTHING to change your ball(s), if all you do is recreational bowling!! No Alley is going to turn you away because your ball(s) doesn’t meet competition standards!

_________________
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:04 pm Post Number: #123 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
On this and many other fora/discussions - everyone was screaming

USBC do SOMETHING!

The game is getting out of hand.

Now that they have done something (remains to be seen what overall effect it would have)

the overwhelming response is negative!

To say, I am flummoxed is an understatement.

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:47 pm Post Number: #124 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
I know that I am late to the discussion (blame it on only 24 hours in a day)

but my "layman's" opinion is the more knowledgeable and nuanced bowlers have made most out of the placement of balance holes.

The first step in 'taming' this was to take away the extra hole from two handers.
Belmo did strange things with the ball with a thumb hole and weight hole.

Now it is on to one handers.

i think good bowlers would still be good bowlers but the optimization of the balance hole was done by the most informed and high level bowlers

Personally, none of my balls have a weight hold as every now and then I like to take out the thumb and fool around two handed - so I keep them that way to be legal

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:58 pm Post Number: #125 Post
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4280
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 940
Reputation Power: 10
Dax wrote:
I like to take out the thumb and fool around two handed - so I keep them that way to be legal


Soon, that will not be legal as the new rules state that each gripping hole must be used on each delivery.
It would be a balance hole otherwise.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:15 pm Post Number: #126 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: November 4, 2014
Posts: 66
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
Dax wrote:
The first step in 'taming' this was to take away the extra hole from two handers.
Belmo did strange things with the ball with a thumb hole and weight hole.


No he didn't, he's been on the record stating that he doesn't use weight holes, and has a faux thumb hole in the same spot on all of his balls (Obviously he won't any more)

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/8489

Belmonte said he uses no funky drillings.

“I use my own idea already — a standard hole in the exact same location always,” he said. “Because it's the fairest way to do it. I’ve been doing this for 5 years. Any ball a rep gives me with an odd thumb hole location I do not use.”

_________________
Steven Bourgaize

Rev Rate: Roughly 300
Ball Weight: 15lb
PAP: Smear
Span: Teeny


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:19 pm Post Number: #127 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:

Soon, that will not be legal as the new rules state that each gripping hole must be used on each delivery.
It would be a balance hole otherwise.


I am aware.

Now I have get two plastic balls for my son for 10 pin (he is a two handed) - as sometimes he shoots it two handed and sometimes one handed - if the lanes are scorched or the ball return is far up.

;(

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:23 pm Post Number: #128 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
flibblesh wrote:

No he didn't, he's been on the record stating that he doesn't use weight holes, and has a faux thumb hole in the same spot on all of his balls (Obviously he won't any more)

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/8489

Belmonte said he uses no funky drillings.

“I use my own idea already — a standard hole in the exact same location always,” he said. “Because it's the fairest way to do it. I’ve been doing this for 5 years. Any ball a rep gives me with an odd thumb hole location I do not use.”


Thanks for the info.

I guess the combinations of a faux thumb and a weight hole was "limitless' - so that one is gone.

and now the balance hole for all players.

This might take away some of the mumbo jumbo from some pro shops as it is getting simpler

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 3:33 pm Post Number: #129 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
flibblesh wrote:
PAP: Smear



Just saw that!

Funny! :D :D :D

I wonder if Dr Georgios Nikolaou Papanikolaou would find that as a 'smear' on his name ;)

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 4:43 pm Post Number: #130 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1109
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 188
Reputation Power: 2
I don’t think we need to dumb down bowling so non nerds can understand it, I and others here are more than willing to teach, for free, all the “mumbo jumbo” pro shops talk when explaining spherical geometric coordinates and the physics of ball motion... now, do people want to learn or are they just comfortable with others thinking and making decisions for them? That is the question...


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:53 pm Post Number: #131 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: March 8, 2011
Posts: 236
Reputation: 8
Reputation Power: 1
TonyPR wrote:
I don’t think we need to dumb down bowling so non nerds can understand it, I and others here are more than willing to teach, for free, all the “mumbo jumbo” pro shops talk when explaining spherical geometric coordinates and the physics of ball motion... now, do people want to learn or are they just comfortable with others thinking and making decisions for them? That is the question...


Jargon is the essential ingredient for for the mystical magician to convey his/her misinformation making it out of reach for others

a car salesman, a real estate agent or a pro shop operator....

Thanks for the offer to help.

i am here to learn.

_________________
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar

http://www.tasankar.com


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 6:42 pm Post Number: #132 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1109
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 188
Reputation Power: 2
Yea, I agree the words can sound to technical at the beginning, that’s what brought me to BowlingChat and learn I did so you came to the right place. We have a glossary in the wiki or please ask any questions you have even if you think they are too basic, the worst question is the one that isn’t asked.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 7:34 pm Post Number: #133 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8, 2012
Posts: 766
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
TonyPR wrote:
Yea, I agree the words can sound to technical at the beginning, that’s what brought me to BowlingChat and learn I did so you came to the right place. We have a glossary in the wiki or please ask any questions you have even if you think they are too basic, the worst question is the one that isn’t asked.

I am learning the jargon and that is fine, but, when TV announcers (just a bowler they put a mic in front of) use it during matches, it alienates non-bowlers and prevents new bowlers from understanding what is happening in a match.
When I hear things like: "She got soft on her release because the ball wiggled in the back on the tight lane" I just cringe.
Billy Welu would never have said anything like that.
He made bowling entertaining and fun and explained very clearly what was happening on the lanes so everyone could enjoy it.
Remember the "Billy Board?"
I really miss Rob Stone too, he and Randy made bowling so much fun to watch.
"Hambone!"
Thank you Rob.

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:01 pm Post Number: #134 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: August 31, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Tucson, AZ
Reputation: 121
Reputation Power: 2
If 3oz static weight has been deemed to be more or less neutral to ball motion (or, at the very least, less significant than a balance hole), why not change that rule immediately? This would mitigate the need for balance holes in asymms with offset CG and certain layouts.

ie: If I sell an offset asymm tomorrow, it would be nice if did not have to drill a superfluous balance hole that will subsequently have to be filled.

_________________
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.625" x 0
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 7º


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:57 pm Post Number: #135 Post
Offline
Pro Shop
User avatar

Joined: January 19, 2010
Posts: 290
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation: 47
Reputation Power: 1
snick wrote:
If 3oz static weight has been deemed to be more or less neutral to ball motion (or, at the very least, less significant than a balance hole), why not change that rule immediately? This would mitigate the need for balance holes in asymms with offset CG and certain layouts.

ie: If I sell an offset asymm tomorrow, it would be nice if did not have to drill a superfluous balance hole that will subsequently have to be filled.


Nationals. I don't think it would be wise to change a rule once a major tournament started.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:54 pm Post Number: #136 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 307
Reputation: 77
Reputation Power: 1
snick wrote:
If I sell an offset asymm tomorrow, it would be nice if did not have to drill a superfluous balance hole that will subsequently have to be filled.


CATCH 22


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:41 pm Post Number: #137 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: May 9, 2018
Posts: 17
Reputation: -1
Reputation Power: 1
MegaMav wrote:

I thought testing was voluntary for this new test, I guess not.

I think the high end balls we see now are about as big as they're going to get for a while, unless they can find a way to generate more friction without the oil absorption. I'd bet thats already in the works. I wonder if we'll see epoxy balls again in the future.


When i saw the new rules I basically said to my bowling buddies " Do they want us to go back to using just plastic and urethane because of the pattern integrity or are proprietors complaining because of the cost of lane conditioner? " My driller says we have to plug all our balls by 2020 but the USBC says all balls will be grandfathered? Who's right?

Formerly Qman.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:30 pm Post Number: #138 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: January 21, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: Michigan
Reputation: 26
Reputation Power: 1
I can't the lemmings here that are just going along with this BS!
Did we forget this...........




Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 pm Post Number: #139 Post
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: July 9, 2012
Posts: 1319
Location: Central Florida
Reputation: 446
Reputation Power: 5
pocket710guy wrote:
My driller says we have to plug all our balls by 2020 but the USBC says all balls will be grandfathered? Who's right?

Formerly Qman.


All the current balls are grandfathered in regard to oil absorption.

Weight holes have to be plugged between Janurary 1, 2020 -August 1, 2020

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) on the new specifications.
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/TechnologyStudy/2018BTS-FAQ.pdf

_________________
Click my green + rep button if this helps!
"REMEMBER, it isn't how much the ball hooks, it's where."


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:39 pm Post Number: #140 Post
Offline
Guru

Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: Camp Springs MD
Reputation: 318
Reputation Power: 4
imagonman wrote:
Did we forget this...........


It comes down to whose research are you to believe?

Are you going to believe me or your eyes? (Gaucho Marx)

Where is the former Back Belt USBC researcher, Nikki, when we need her?

All this is, is an exercise in real politic to justify large salaries and large expense accounts.

"Life is good" says the top dog.

_________________
-Gary Parsons
If one does not know one's product, one can not manage nor promote the product one does not know.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 173 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Board index » General Forums » General Bowling


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: