Board index » General Forums » General Bowling




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 173 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:53 pm Post Number: #101 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: June 5, 2010
Posts: 885
Reputation: 79
Reputation Power: 1
I see that they are trying to limit the sponges and the static weight limit is archaic but removing the balance hole takes many individuals and makes them at a disadvantage to the higher rev bowlers. There have been several older bowlers how have become more competitive with the younger rev monsters because of these balance holes. Had a gentlemen who is 75 years old and shortly after the information on motion holes came out we redrilled a ball his nephew gave him and he bowled the first 700 in his life!! He has been bowling since he was a little kid and this layout changed his game. Now I'm supposed to tell him that he can't use this ball anymore because the USBC finally spent some of its money on research instead of stuffing it in their pockets.

Thought I had cooled down about this but........ WTF!!! :x

_________________
* MPH @ aarows
* RPM
AR *
AT *
PAP 3 3/4"
(* rebuilding)

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:27 pm Post Number: #102 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: September 8, 2012
Posts: 766
Reputation: 16
Reputation Power: 1
Dustin wrote:
I see that they are trying to limit the sponges and the static weight limit is archaic but removing the balance hole takes many individuals and makes them at a disadvantage to the higher rev bowlers. There have been several older bowlers how have become more competitive with the younger rev monsters because of these balance holes. Had a gentlemen who is 75 years old and shortly after the information on motion holes came out we redrilled a ball his nephew gave him and he bowled the first 700 in his life!! He has been bowling since he was a little kid and this layout changed his game. Now I'm supposed to tell him that he can't use this ball anymore because the USBC finally spent some of its money on research instead of stuffing it in their pockets.

Thought I had cooled down about this but........ WTF!!! :x

After reading your example above, the USBC decision does seem unfair and short sighted now that I think about it.
If they remove the option for the dynamics that a balance hole can create for low rev bowlers that allow them to compete with high rev players, but, leave the balls as is so that high rev players now have an even greater advantage, then that is very unfair.
Why give a huge advantage to one type of player over others?
If they want to make changes, make them in a way that levels the playing field.
This would have to include both, overall ball design and lane patterns.

_________________
Full Roller
Axis Rotation: 90
Axis Tilt: 0
Rev rate: 150
Ball speed: 10.5 mph at the Pin Deck
Composite Average: 175
High Game: 259 bowled with Billy Hardwick rubber ball. The back 9.
High Series: 667 bowled with the Radical Jackpot.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:16 am Post Number: #103 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1113
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 195
Reputation Power: 2
Yes!!!! Leaning more towards lane conditions but yes!!! You understand.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:12 pm Post Number: #104 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 308
Reputation: 77
Reputation Power: 1
It doesn't matter what USBC does, unless the oil conditions can be stringently enforced (and that is impossible) someone is going to have an advantage. Tournament style conditions are for tournaments, house conditions are for those that bowl three games a week. It is that simple.

Creating what would appear to be a uniform equipment regulation is the safest way to go.

Of the four extra hole placements, P1 and P4 have the most influence on ball motion. They also allow the most dramatic manipulation of the static weight rule. USBC finally figured it out. No problem there.

But, USBC was all about promoting the manipulation of ball dynamics for quite awhile, weren't they. For 40 years, the professionals have chuckled knowing, weight means nothing. The "hole" meant everything. USBC, just trying to be a part of something bowling, said: "ok, we like that, just keep it legal". Need I bring up their study on ball dynamics. They were actually promoting this stuff.

In terms of side, finger / thumb weight? To be honest, the weight limitation wasn't all that bad. Just a nuisance sometimes, pointless all the same. The new rule is going to be even more of a pain. Lifting the weight limitation rule is simply an essential trade off because labels are mis-marked etc.

The real problem with all of this is USBC does not know bowling as a business. They have continuously proven it. They jump on the band wagon of anything that makes them feel pertinent. Then, all of a sudden, they'll have a revelation: "We didn't know that would happen!".

It will happen again.

Bowling as a business pays for it.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:49 am Post Number: #105 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: August 31, 2014
Posts: 658
Location: Tucson, AZ
Reputation: 121
Reputation Power: 2
Eliminating balance holes limits the hook potential of the bowling ball. I get that.
But since asymmetric balls are still allowed, how is this going to change anything?

_________________
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.625" x 0
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 7º


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:51 pm Post Number: #106 Post
Online
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: April 26, 2007
Posts: 4291
Location: Malta, NY
Reputation: 940
Reputation Power: 10
snick wrote:
Eliminating balance holes limits the hook potential of the bowling ball. I get that.
But since asymmetric balls are still allowed, how is this going to change anything?


The market will change.
Bowlers will adapt and the scoring will continue.
The inept USBC brass will clink their glasses in celebration, it now takes 2 less minutes per bowler at nationals and masters to check in.

_________________
Please press the Image button if you feel I've been helpful.

“When you prepare for everything, you’re ready for anything.” - Bill Walsh


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:07 pm Post Number: #107 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: April 15, 2015
Posts: 162
Location: Finland
Reputation: 36
Reputation Power: 1
Nord wrote:
I bowled way better on all of these patterns than I do on a house shot!
I only used my Grizz bowling ball at 500 grit.
I had several 200 plus games and averaged higher on all the patterns than I do on a house shot.
Additionally, I loved these sport shots because they are very predictable.
If you miss right, you miss right.
if you miss left, you miss left.
And here is the best part, if you make a good shot, you are rewarded!
No last minute house shot tricks.
Also, the pattern broke down in a very predictable fashion.
As a whole, these patterns were truer than a house shot.
I wish all leagues used flatter patterns like these.
I have said it before, I hate house shots and find them harder to play than the Sport shots I have played on.


Sorry for an offtopic but this is something that bothers me. Let me first tell you that I have read many of your posts before and have some knowledge already on how you bowl and what gear you use etc. First I believe that you really was on a situation where your urethane balls were actually very suitable for a "harder" condition. Second if you put a sport pattern to the lanes for one special night, it really tells nothing about how hard it actually is. It takes few days for the lanes to settle for new condition. Especially after high ratio house shot.

I just believe that for me it seems like you havent had right type of equipment/layout -combo for house shot if the situation is like you mentioned. Nowadays I always carry few urethane balls and few rective balls when I go to a new center for competition. Sometimes the urethane really shines but sometimes the situation really provokes an reactive. My experience is that for harder ("lower ratio" and drier) the better option is usually the urethane.

For the rest i really agree with you. The bowling should be a game where your ability to throw the ball matters more. Then again for some time now we have had very demanding conditions here nearly in all centers nearby and let me tell you, it really pushes the nerves on a limit after a while when everything feels so damn hard. PLUS here you throw six games per night instead of three and it is not fun situation when you have high expectations for the night and ruin your evening after first two games. Think about the situation when you know that you have to throw 1400points and after two games, you have scored total of 300. :oops:

This again is one beauty in the sport that you simply must have the correct type of equipment for the condition. There is no one magic ball or even type of ball that can work on all conditions, whenever someone tells that some particularly type of ball is best, it tells more about the bowler than the game.

_________________
Right Handed
PAP 4 3/8" x 0"
60* rotation
17.5* tilt
320-360 rev rate
17mph off hand


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:24 am Post Number: #108 Post
Offline
Member

Joined: May 11, 2015
Posts: 100
Location: Mid-west
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
TomaHawk wrote: "It doesn't matter what USBC does, unless the oil conditions can be stringently enforced (and that is impossible) someone is going to have an advantage...."

I got into a debate about this subject the other day with the local pro shop owner. His opinion was that after being taped for compliance, any center could simply reset their oil machine back to what they wanted.
My thought is if the USBC went after the ball manufacturers for bowling ball compliance, why not do something similar with the manufacturers of the lane oil machines. For example, the machines could be created with locked down firmware where the machine is delivered with a select number of sanctioned oil patterns (maybe six or twelve) of the center's choosing included (my local centers only use one oil pattern anyway). The house shot offering could be something like the Kegel Mainstreet 7241 which seems to be typical as a house shot in many centers. Any changes in oil pattern selections desired by the center would require a firmware update from the manufacturer.
I know this would be very popular /s.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:52 am Post Number: #109 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: August 1, 2010
Posts: 1399
Location: Florence, Ky
Reputation: 1144
Reputation Power: 10
ballspoint wrote:
A balance hole was used to make the ball legal, if that balance hole is filled, the ball is now still legal because of the new static weight rules...correct?


Correct.

Food for thought:

Make the 3 oz static weight change effective 8/1/2018.

Now the Pro shop could drill a new ball for the bowler with a layout to help them without worrying about having to add a weight hole to make the ball legal per the current 1 oz static weight limitation.

This would also eliminate the need/cost to plug the extra hole in 2020!

_________________
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:48 am Post Number: #110 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 8, 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Connecticut
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
I found it interesting, that in the original link to the changes being mandated, that up to five finger holes would be allowed. Other than the latest two-handed throw by some these days, I haven’t ever seen five holes used to handle a ball.

First I thought the new absorption rate requirement stated some 2 minutes, then they talk about nine minutes. I’m confused

They didn’t go into any really specific towel construction requirements either. Rayon, polyester, Shamir?
How dense? How often can a towel be replaced? Is there going to be a time limit on how long you can wipe your ball for? Can the towel be moistened?

Too many questions; not enough answers!!

_________________
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:36 pm Post Number: #111 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: March 10, 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Svolvær, Lofoten, Norway
Reputation: 30
Reputation Power: 1
Glenn wrote:
I got into a debate about this subject the other day with the local pro shop owner. His opinion was that after being taped for compliance, any center could simply reset their oil machine back to what they wanted.
My thought is if the USBC went after the ball manufacturers for bowling ball compliance, why not do something similar with the manufacturers of the lane oil machines. For example, the machines could be created with locked down firmware where the machine is delivered with a select number of sanctioned oil patterns (maybe six or twelve) of the center's choosing included (my local centers only use one oil pattern anyway). The house shot offering could be something like the Kegel Mainstreet 7241 which seems to be typical as a house shot in many centers. Any changes in oil pattern selections desired by the center would require a firmware update from the manufacturer.
I know this would be very popular /s.

While I do agree that some sort of lock could actually be necessary, you can never ever lock down a machine permanently. To say it like this, my center doesn't have a lot of money, we had an old AMF Summit till October. I got so tired of the Summit screwing me over, that I personally bought a Kegel Kustodian Plus. Now I can tell you, no one touches that machine in a way that I can't work with it as I like. I create patterns, I test them, I am part-owner of the center. My machine, my rules. If you want to lock down a certain pattern for a tournament on my machine, sure, but the 3 other slots, and the last slot when the tournament is over, they are mine.

The house shot, you can't just lock down a house shot either, no house shot fits all centers, and no center can run all house shots out there. It isn't that easy.

Besides, the closest we get to a house shot here is 3.3:1 ratio, but the second my team (we got a nation-wide double round robin league in Norway, 4 divisions) wants to practice on a pattern similar to the away teams center, no one should or would be able to stop me from using the machine I paid for myself.

So if this would happen, it would also mean that you'd get a lot of angry mechanics/lanemen and owners, or the USBC would have to buy out every Flex, Flex Walker and Ikon from Kegel, or Envoy from Brunswick to cover all centers, because if you bought a machine, its yours, no one should govern it outside a tournament enviroment!

_________________
    PAP: 3 1/2" right 1 1/2" up
    Speed: 15.5 downlane
    RPM: 450
    Axis rotation: 30°
    Axis tilt: 0°

    Years bowling: 11
    Average (sport patterns, 4:1 ratio and less): 175
    High game: 290
    High series: 756


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:53 pm Post Number: #112 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1113
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 195
Reputation Power: 2
Word!!! (Microphone drop) :D


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:59 pm Post Number: #113 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: March 10, 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Svolvær, Lofoten, Norway
Reputation: 30
Reputation Power: 1
JMerrell wrote:

Correct.

Food for thought:

Make the 3 oz static weight change effective 8/1/2018.

Now the Pro shop could drill a new ball for the bowler with a layout to help them without worrying about having to add a weight hole to make the ball legal per the current 1 oz static weight limitation.

This would also eliminate the need/cost to plug the extra hole in 2020!

This makes a lot more sense than the current way of doing it. Having a period where both are allowed will let people transition a lot smoother than currently, where you'd have to plug and redrill ALL balls with a balance hole on August 1st 2020.

_________________
    PAP: 3 1/2" right 1 1/2" up
    Speed: 15.5 downlane
    RPM: 450
    Axis rotation: 30°
    Axis tilt: 0°

    Years bowling: 11
    Average (sport patterns, 4:1 ratio and less): 175
    High game: 290
    High series: 756


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:11 pm Post Number: #114 Post
Offline
BCU Graduate Layouts
User avatar

Joined: August 31, 2014
Posts: 658
Location: Tucson, AZ
Reputation: 121
Reputation Power: 2
Personally and professionally, I think the 3oz static weight rule should begin immediately, so bowlers can begin the process of filling the holes as part of regular ball maintenance, and start learning how those balls will work for them without balance holes.

_________________
Benchmark Bowling Pro Shop
Byron

RH
PAP: 5.625" x 0
REVRATE: 360
SPEED: 17mph at release
AR: 55º
AT: 7º


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 5:13 pm Post Number: #115 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 30, 2010
Posts: 3362
Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Reputation: 276
Reputation Power: 3
Quote:
The specification increases in static weights take effect Jan. 1, 2020, which will allow bowlers the opportunity to plug balance holes prior to the elimination of balance holes starting Aug. 1, 2020.


This quote is from the information on bowl.com. From 1/1/20 to 8/1/20 balls can have the 3 oz static weight imbalance in any direction and still have a balance hole, giving 7 months to get the balance holes plugged. -- JohnP


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:37 am Post Number: #116 Post
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: April 8, 2018
Posts: 123
Location: Connecticut
Reputation: 0
Reputation Power: 1
“Standardization” or “leveling the playing field,”
Is a good thing (at the risk of being redundant).

Tightening of the rules with regard to what you can and cannot do to the ball, seems to me to be the most logical approach.

Next: arm, wrist and hand aids; towels, powders and shoes!!

Funny, (odd) how we are so protective about our own equipment requirements, but ignore “lane condition” requirements like having topographically “level” lanes; typical oil patterns and natural vs synthetic materials!

Maybe they should regulate lighting and environmental conditions too??!! (Tongue in cheek)

_________________
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:00 pm Post Number: #117 Post
Offline
Certified Coach
User avatar

Joined: March 10, 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Svolvær, Lofoten, Norway
Reputation: 30
Reputation Power: 1
soupy1957 wrote:
“Standardization” or “leveling the playing field,”
Is a good thing (at the risk of being redundant).

Tightening of the rules with regard to what you can and cannot do to the ball, seems to me to be the most logical approach.

Next: arm, wrist and hand aids; towels, powders and shoes!!

Funny, (odd) how we are so protective about our own equipment requirements, but ignore “lane condition” requirements like having topographically “level” lanes; typical oil patterns and natural vs synthetic materials!

Maybe they should regulate lighting and environmental conditions too??!! (Tongue in cheek)

I know it isn't to be taken 100% seriously, but towels and powders are non-negotiable in my eyes. First of all because of safety, a slippery thumb hole can break fingers. As for aids, in a way I agree, but currently, older players and women have issues with their wrist and getting any action with it, so now, it would handicap many players. But women are playing more and more aggressive, like men, I saw Andrea Hansen in Norway rise to compete in Europe, she got revs like few women, same for Daria Pajak. But until mostly all women play more aggressive, they might wanna keep their wrist devices.

_________________
    PAP: 3 1/2" right 1 1/2" up
    Speed: 15.5 downlane
    RPM: 450
    Axis rotation: 30°
    Axis tilt: 0°

    Years bowling: 11
    Average (sport patterns, 4:1 ratio and less): 175
    High game: 290
    High series: 756


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 5:58 pm Post Number: #118 Post
Offline
Certified Coach

Joined: December 13, 2014
Posts: 1113
Location: San Juan, PR
Reputation: 195
Reputation Power: 2
Bowling is fine just the way it is, after thinking it over many times I wouldn’t change a thing, all we need to do is keep on doing what we’re doing improving youth coaching, growing college bowling and getting more money into professional bowling. If USBC isn’t doing this as good as some other entity would then we need to improve USBC or get another entity to “grow the sport”...


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:32 pm Post Number: #119 Post
Offline
Pro Shop

Joined: December 7, 2010
Posts: 58
Location: Guadalajara, Jalisco. México.
Reputation: 17
Reputation Power: 1
I own a pro shop in Mexico and I have some doubts, I would like to help me clarify them.
1. Can I already drilling new balls from my customers with the new specs?
2. Can I begin to plug the balance holes?
3. Should I wait until 01/01/20 to do the above?

Thank you for your help


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: USBC New Ball Specs
 Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:47 pm Post Number: #120 Post
Offline
Trusted Source

Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 3121
Reputation: 465
Reputation Power: 5
hevaga wrote:
I own a pro shop in Mexico and I have some doubts, I would like to help me clarify them.
1. Can I already drilling new balls from my customers with the new specs?
2. Can I begin to plug the balance holes?
3. Should I wait until 01/01/20 to do the above?

Thank you for your help
Yes wait. right now the rule is still 1 oz finger/thumb and 1 oz side. If you plug balance holes, ball might be illegal.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 173 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Board index » General Forums » General Bowling


 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: