USBC New Ball Specs

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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav »

MeNoRevs wrote:
This is what was told to us at the "Call in" for Pro Shops. I can only say what was told to us by the horses mouth.
I thought testing was voluntary for this new test, I guess not.

I think the high end balls we see now are about as big as they're going to get for a while, unless they can find a way to generate more friction without the oil absorption. I'd bet thats already in the works. I wonder if we'll see epoxy balls again in the future.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MeNoRevs »

MegaMav wrote:
I thought testing was voluntary for this new test, I guess not.

I think the high end balls we see now are about as big as they're going to get for a while, unless they can find a way to generate more friction without the oil absorption. I'd bet thats already in the works. I wonder if we'll see epoxy balls again in the future.
If you want to see something "interesting", try to de oil some of Motiv's stuff like their Primal line or Octane line. I never see them have oil come out of their pores, then again, its not their super hooker line.

I think it just goes to show that a ball can still create entry angle without being a round vacuum on the lane.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by guruU2 »

MegaMav wrote:I think the high end balls we see now are about as big as they're going to get for a while, unless they can find a way to generate more friction without the oil absorption. I'd bet thats already in the works
Good bet. A very good bet.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TomaHawk »

MeNoRevs wrote:
Why are they sheep? Its interesting what people will say about other people behind a keyboard.

You may not agree with what USBC did, but to say that I believe is irresponsible. You don't know what arguments or disagreements they had. You don't know what was proposed and turned down during this time (a la turning back the diff numbers).
You know, sheep. As in, those who follow the direction of others even though the end of the road is a cliff and they don't bother to stop there.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by JJakobsen »

TomaHawk wrote: You know, sheep. As in, those who follow the direction of others even though the end of the road is a cliff and they don't bother to stop there.
Sounds more like Lemmings to me :D
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

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^^^^^ :lol:
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MeNoRevs »

TomaHawk wrote:
You know, sheep. As in, those who follow the direction of others even though the end of the road is a cliff and they don't bother to stop there.
I asked why, not what the definition of "sheep" as he called them. Go troll somewhere else.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TomaHawk »

Why are they sheep? Its interesting what people will say about other people behind a keyboard.

You may not agree with what USBC did, but to say that I believe is irresponsible. You don't know what arguments or disagreements they had. You don't know what was proposed and turned down during this time (a la turning back the diff numbers).
Actually, your whole comment...you know...reeks of sheep
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ballspoint »

How about this stituation...USBC rules for the USA, corrcect? World Bowling for the rest of us, If WB do not follow/change with the USBC rules, what happens when a tournament in the USA with bowlers from overseas (after the new rules happen). What rules are being used?
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by elgavachon »

ballspoint wrote:How about this stituation...USBC rules for the USA, corrcect? World Bowling for the rest of us, If WB do not follow/change with the USBC rules, what happens when a tournament in the USA with bowlers from overseas (after the new rules happen). What rules are being used?
This is what I see happening:
Tournament does not have to be sanctioned and the tournament manager has the final say. If it is sanctioned by the USBC, the changes would be enforced.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ballspoint »

elgavachon wrote: This is what I see happening:
Tournament does not have to be sanctioned and the tournament manager has the final say. If it is sanctioned by the USBC, the changes would be enforced.
Ok, but what if its under WB, so it has to be sanctioned..i am talking about a major comp, world wide bowlers. Also IS USBC not under WB? Or a totally separate body?
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by crashin12x »

ballspoint wrote: Ok, but what if its under WB, so it has to be sanctioned..i am talking about a major comp, world wide bowlers. Also IS USBC not under WB? Or a totally separate body?
Exactly my point why'd I asked. Are they any different immune for the lack of better term from WB? Though as Jim mentioned, WB do not follow the no sanding rule of USBC.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ads »

Below is quoted from FAQ of the new spec
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net ... TS-FAQ.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To protect bowling’s future:
• USBC is eliminating balance holes
• Setting a new specification for oil absorption
• The overall result will slightly limit hook potential

USBC research shows these changes will:
• Slow oil pattern transition
• Cause bowlers to move less
• Keep the same scoring pace with lower oil volume

Why did USBC eliminate the balance hole?
Balance holes were originally intended to correct a ball that was drilled outside of our static weight tolerances. However, in recent years, balance holes have become a tool for pro shop professionals to manipulate the balls. Our studies determined the balance hole can greatly increase the Differential RG to strengthen the reaction of the equipment beyond the ball’s original design intent.



Please help to check my understanding.

1. Differential RG = Total differential?
2. Balls with high total diff will hook more (and carry away more oil) . Why? Because of larger track flare or something else. What if a high diff core inside plastic or urethane? Obviously, it hooks less and the track flare is minimal. Will it carry away same amount of oil as the same core with reactive resin coverstock?
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TomaHawk »

ads wrote:Below is quoted from FAQ of the new spec
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net ... TS-FAQ.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To protect bowling’s future:
• USBC is eliminating balance holes
• Setting a new specification for oil absorption
• The overall result will slightly limit hook potential

USBC research shows these changes will:
• Slow oil pattern transition
• Cause bowlers to move less
• Keep the same scoring pace with lower oil volume

Why did USBC eliminate the balance hole?
Balance holes were originally intended to correct a ball that was drilled outside of our static weight tolerances. However, in recent years, balance holes have become a tool for pro shop professionals to manipulate the balls. Our studies determined the balance hole can greatly increase the Differential RG to strengthen the reaction of the equipment beyond the ball’s original design intent.



Please help to check my understanding.

1. Differential RG = Total differential?
2. Balls with high total diff will hook more (and carry away more oil) . Why? Because of larger track flare or something else. What if a high diff core inside plastic or urethane? Obviously, it hooks less and the track flare is minimal. Will it carry away same amount of oil as the same core with reactive resin coverstock?
For quite a while, coefficient of friction has been the ultimate, determining factor in the bowlers ability to break down oil patterns. To prove that, the Strohs teams of old, would select bowlers who basically rolled the ball the same. They were all full rollers, same speed, and had the same trajectory. They were all very accurate, burning a slot into the oil pattern was an art they had mastered.

That was long before "oil suckers" were in existence.

Now, the same "burning a shot" exists, but this mainly concerns high rev / high speed players. Because of the amount of flare they create, coupled with the oil absorption rate of the equipment, they will create a much wider path in the pattern. Think of if as a sharp V shape.

When Stroh's broke down the pattern, everyone on the lane could still play. Stroh's won, simply, they were more accurate. In today's game, when a no thumb bowler breaks down the pattern? Well, you had better be EJ Tackett to compete.

So, the rule is earmarked toward high rev players. If they can be shut down, bowlers with lesser physical ability can stay on the lane, in their comfort zone, a lot longer.

Does diff factor into the equation? It would be pointless to argue that it doesn't.

We know and understand the intent of the rule. But, there are a whole bunch of 3 game a week bowling participants who have an extra hole in their ball. A lot of them are going to say: "Why the hell did you put that hole in my ball anyway!"
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ads »

TomaHawk wrote:
For quite a while, coefficient of friction has been the ultimate, determining factor in the bowlers ability to break down oil patterns. To prove that, the Strohs teams of old, would select bowlers who basically rolled the ball the same. They were all full rollers, same speed, and had the same trajectory. They were all very accurate, burning a slot into the oil pattern was an art they had mastered.

That was long before "oil suckers" were in existence.

Now, the same "burning a shot" exists, but this mainly concerns high rev / high speed players. Because of the amount of flare they create, coupled with the oil absorption rate of the equipment, they will create a much wider path in the pattern. Think of if as a sharp V shape.

When Stroh's broke down the pattern, everyone on the lane could still play. Stroh's won, simply, they were more accurate. In today's game, when a no thumb bowler breaks down the pattern? Well, you had better be EJ Tackett to compete.

So, the rule is earmarked toward high rev players. If they can be shut down, bowlers with lesser physical ability can stay on the lane, in their comfort zone, a lot longer.

Does diff factor into the equation? It would be pointless to argue that it doesn't.

We know and understand the intent of the rule. But, there are a whole bunch of 3 game a week bowling participants who have an extra hole in their ball. A lot of them are going to say: "Why the hell did you put that hole in my ball anyway!"

Thanks for the insight. See if my inference makes sense.

I read from Kegel, when balls did not flare, break down a lane is more difficult because balls rotate on the same track over the entire 60 feet. When flare comes to play, each round of ball revolution, a new ring of ball surface will encounter the lane surface to carry some oil away. If flare rings are noticeably separate from and not overlapping with each other, more amount of oil will be depleted. This situation will be further exaggerated if

1. the ball hooks more => run over more boards will oil.
2. the bowler has a lot more revolution => more flare rings
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TomaHawk »

[/quote]Thanks for the insight. See if my inference makes sense.

I read from Kegel, when balls did not flare, break down a lane is more difficult because balls rotate on the same track over the entire 60 feet. When flare comes to play, each round of ball revolution, a new ring of ball surface will encounter the lane surface to carry some oil away. If flare rings are noticeably separate from and not overlapping with each other, more amount of oil will be depleted. This situation will be further exaggerated if

1. the ball hooks more => run over more boards will oil.
2. the bowler has a lot more revolution => more flare rings[/quote]

More revolutions, high flare potential, and an oil sucking bowling ball translates into quick depletion of oil on the lane. Think of a round, porous sponge going down the lane.

Just for sake of visualization, a low rev player would essentially rotate the sponge two revolutions. Each of the two revolutions comes in contact with a different part of the sponge. Compare that to a bowler who can rotate the sponge six times, each revolution comes in contact with a different part of the sponge. To state the obvious, the more times the sponge rotates on a fresh part of the sponge, the higher the potential for removing oil from the surface.

That is a simplistic explanation. Hope it helps though.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by Dustin »

The USBC made the change to help with the integrity of the game by trying to preserve the oil pattern longer. This is from the horses mouth. I understand the a balance hole can make the ball flare more but modern balls and cores flare the way they are without a balance hole. If the flares are a 1/4" apart do they deplete less oil than a flare that is 1/2" or 3/4" apart? The ball is still rolling over an area where there is less to no oil on it. And does a balance hole make a ball rev that much more in the oil that it depletes more oil than a ball with out a balance hole? I can see the oil absorption rate being caped to prevent oil patterns from blowing up and changing the static weight rule because it is a bit archaic but the balance hole rule leaves me to question the reasoning behind the change. And I have seen how MANY times a balance hole has helped bowlers of ALL levels. Not an attack just more questions.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by JohnP »

The difference between balls that have wide flare gaps and narrow ones comes at the bowties. With a narrow gap there is a longer strip where the rings are overlapping at each bowtie. -- JohnP
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TomaHawk »

Dustin wrote:The USBC made the change to help with the integrity of the game by trying to preserve the oil pattern longer. This is from the horses mouth. I understand the a balance hole can make the ball flare more but modern balls and cores flare the way they are without a balance hole. If the flares are a 1/4" apart do they deplete less oil than a flare that is 1/2" or 3/4" apart? The ball is still rolling over an area where there is less to no oil on it. And does a balance hole make a ball rev that much more in the oil that it depletes more oil than a ball with out a balance hole? I can see the oil absorption rate being caped to prevent oil patterns from blowing up and changing the static weight rule because it is a bit archaic but the balance hole rule leaves me to question the reasoning behind the change. And I have seen how MANY times a balance hole has helped bowlers of ALL levels. Not an attack just more questions.
The rule is mystifying. It's like getting a new tire, driving out of the shop, but they didn't balance it correctly. Take the tire back to the shop. The customer service declares: "Rules state, we can't balance it again. Bub bye."
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by Nord »

EricHartwell wrote: I'm pissed, I have 10 bowlingballs 8 of which have balance holes. Very few Asyms being offered at 13# and when they are they just don't match up to their big brothers. Without the balance holes most of my equipment rolls like crap.
I am not sure I fully understand what you mean.
I have a Grizz urethane bowling ball with a simple label drill.
This ball gets only one flare line through the middle of the palm.
If the condition is right for it, it rolls better than any ball I have ever used.
Smooth as silk with a nice subtle backend shape and a true roll through the pins.

Are you saying that the balls roll like crap on a specific oil condition unless they have a balance hole?
Becasuse in the example I pointed out above, even a ball that does not flare and does not absorb oil will roll very well on the right condition.
Doesn't it all come down to surface now?
Finding the right ball for the condition?
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