USBC New Ball Specs

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USBC New Ball Specs

Post by imagonman » April 24th, 2018, 6:26 pm

The NEWS:

https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622331019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems they don't listen to industry leaders & think they KNOW what is best for the 'Future'. Wonder how long their "Future" will last?

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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by jazlar » April 24th, 2018, 6:31 pm

It seems like they are giving the big Stone Cold salute to Mo Pinel and others - but Mo, especially.

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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » April 24th, 2018, 7:17 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Radical will have a response to this eventually.
Look for asymmetrical balls to take over the market to make up for the balance hole elimination.
Pro shops better learn how to drill them and stop drilling them like symmetrics.
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2020: no more balance holes...

Post by snick » April 24th, 2018, 9:40 pm

So, with 3oz statics on all axes, will static weights become a significant factor in layout?
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Re: 2020: no more balance holes...

Post by MegaMav » April 24th, 2018, 10:48 pm

snick wrote:So, with 3oz statics on all axes, will static weights become a significant factor in layout?
2%.
No.
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Re: 2020: no more balance holes...

Post by imagonman » April 24th, 2018, 11:32 pm

MegaMav wrote:
2%.
No.
Really? That's not what they said in 2011. Have the laws of physics changed since then? Their findings were flawed? Which? So in the end these tests cannot be trusted!!!

Jason Overstreet

July 6, 2011

ARLINGTON, Texas – After completing a comprehensive research study, the United States Bowling Congress will retain its current specifications for static weight limits in its approved bowling balls.

The recently-finished study showed that if the current static weight limits were eliminated or increased, the typical three-phase motion of bowling balls as they travel down a lane (skid, hook, and then roll) would be significantly altered. A fourth phase of unpredictable motion begins to occur that would cause problems for bowlers and likely have an undesirable effect.

“Our research showed that bowling balls with more than the USBC-allowed amount of static weights will skid, hook, roll, then either start to hook again or fade away from the pocket,” said USBC Managing Director of National Governing Body Neil Stremmel. “That type of motion would hinder bowlers and pro shop operators because bowling balls would not have appropriate entry angle into the pins and bowlers would not know how their bowling balls would react.”

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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ballspoint » April 24th, 2018, 11:40 pm

A balance hole was used to make the ball legal, if that balance hole is filled, the ball is now still legal because of the new static weight rules...correct?
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Re: 2020: no more balance holes...

Post by MegaMav » April 24th, 2018, 11:46 pm

imagonman wrote: Really? That's not what they said in 2011. Have the laws of physics changed since then? Their findings were flawed? Which? So in the end these tests cannot be trusted!!!
If it was 1% at 3oz top, 1oz side, how is changing it to 3oz top and 3oz side opening up pandora's box?
Lets be reasonable here. Its nothing major and it isnt making static weights relevant in ball motion.
Major influencing factors on ball motion are still surface roughness of the coverstock, lane friction factors and oil absorption.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by snick » April 25th, 2018, 12:00 am

Since the thumb counts as a "balance hole" in two-handed layouts, would the ball be technically illegal if the bowler does not use their thumb on strike deliveries, but uses it for spares?
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » April 25th, 2018, 12:21 am

snick wrote:Since the thumb counts as a "balance hole" in two-handed layouts, would the ball be technically illegal if the bowler does not use their thumb on strike deliveries, but uses it for spares?
"With the elimination of balance holes, bowlers may have up to five holes for gripping purposes and all gripping holes must be used on every delivery."

REF: https://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.a ... 3622331019" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by guruU2 » April 25th, 2018, 1:03 am

MegaMav wrote:
If it was 1% at 3oz top, 1oz side, how is changing it to 3oz top and 3oz side opening up pandora's box?
Lets be reasonable here. Its nothing major and it isnt making static weights relevant in ball motion.
Major influencing factors on ball motion are still surface roughness of the coverstock, lane friction factors and oil absorption.
If my memory serves me correctly, USBC research team explained to us at a Bowl EXPO 8? years ago that static weights do have a sufficient effect on ball motion starting with 4.5 oz thus the new 3.0 oz rule is "safe".

My observation is that this whole "show" is based on an element of intellectual dishonesty. If the USBC wants to rein in scoring for the benefit of the sport than ALL aspects of the system must make adjustments: for starters, enforcing the system of bowling oil application rule (I dare say 50% of the lanes conditions for league are illegal (of course, enforcement of this rule would add work and expense for the proprietors and the local USBC) and why not returned to plastic coated single void pins (this alone would probably reduce the scoring by 10% but it would add immediate cost to the proprietors). If we are going to "save" the sport by retreating on technology than every entity should be involved not just the ball companies and the pro shops (who have the least economic power). All this stinks of intellectual dishonesty. The beat goes on and on and on.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » April 25th, 2018, 1:29 am

guruU2 wrote:The beat goes on and on and on.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by TonyPR » April 25th, 2018, 3:27 am

USBC stinks! Like really no one gets balance holes and aggressive covers are out, this favors rev dominant players. I don’t use my thumb so if I need a P4 on a symmetric I’ll just roll it half thumb. Asymmetrics no thumb no problem. Gonna start making Tshirts with a “F**k USBC!!!” logo...

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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by ballspoint » April 25th, 2018, 6:32 am

But it seems they are not making any changes after their " A Study of RG and Differential RG".
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by snick » April 25th, 2018, 10:53 am

P3/4 ball motion in symm without a balance hole:

Align drill to thumb cutline. Set pitches to ~1.5" right and ~.5 forward; drill 1" hole, 4" deep.
Reset pitches to bowler specs, drill hole for slug.
Glue slug in place and drill bowler thumb hole.
You now have a ball with a P3-ish "balance hole" that is virtually undetectable, as well as being static legal.
This occurred to me within 30 seconds of reading the new balance hole rules, so I doubt I am the only one who has thought of this.

One way to prevent this subversion of the rule intent, would be to allow only Vise-IT (or equivalent) removable slugs, since the core can be directly inspected for voids with the slug removed. I';m sure there are other ways to detect deep voids, though.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by Bahshay » April 25th, 2018, 12:35 pm

Has anyone seen anything that states which current balls would be illegal under the oil absorption rule? I haven’t figured out yet if this is a roll back or just prevention for the future.

I’m largely indifferent to the rule changes. I’ll miss my hole down VAL, but it won’t ruin my game. I already lean heavily towards midrange or lower balls, I only really use oil suckers at nationals. Plugging holes would be annoying, but odds are low that I still have any of the same balls by then anyway.

If I was a stroker that benefited from strong covers and cores, I’d be pissed.
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by MegaMav » April 25th, 2018, 1:44 pm

Bahshay wrote:If I was a stroker that benefited from strong covers and cores, I’d be pissed.
There is no limit on asymmetry.
These bowlers will gravitate toward strong asymmetrical cores now and use surface to get the ball to pick up.
This isnt as big of a deal as many people are making it out to be.
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Re: 2020: no more balance holes...

Post by Arkansas » April 25th, 2018, 4:10 pm

MegaMav wrote:
If it was 1% at 3oz top, 1oz side, how is changing it to 3oz top and 3oz side opening up pandora's box?
Lets be reasonable here. Its nothing major and it isnt making static weights relevant in ball motion.
Major influencing factors on ball motion are still surface roughness of the coverstock, lane friction factors and oil absorption.
Have you read Bill Sempsrott's BTM article on the subject? He lays out the impact of the changes as he sees it, "with no balance holes allowed, but with static imbalance of up to 3 ounces permitted on all three axes - can allow for more performance than anything you can achieve under the current rules."

Also, keep in mind that the 2008 USBC Ball Motion Study that found static weights make up ~1% of ball motion used the same layout for all the balls, so how much static weight difference was actually tested?

A 2011 follow found that "while static weights do have a minimal effect on bowling ball motion within the current window, our research data and analysis shows that having no limit can have a negative effect on ball motion."
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Re: USBC New Ball Specs

Post by The Kid » April 25th, 2018, 4:18 pm

On Saturday I drilled an (asymmetrical) ball for a customer. After throwing a few frames, he asked for just a bit more strength. I drilled a smallish P3 and he loved it.

It's a shame that that fine-tuning measure is being removed. It certainly places an even higher premium on selecting the correct ball and layout, which will inevitably lead to more poorly selected/drilled balls. Even for the PSOs who put in the effort to do that well will occasionally miss, and now it's harder to rectify.

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Re: 2020: no more balance holes...

Post by MegaMav » April 25th, 2018, 4:21 pm

Arkansas wrote:
Have you read Bill Sempsrott's BTM article on the subject? He lays out the impact of the changes as he sees it, "with no balance holes allowed, but with static imbalance of up to 3 ounces permitted on all three axes - can allow for more performance than anything you can achieve under the current rules."

Also, keep in mind that the 2008 USBC Ball Motion Study that found static weights make up ~1% of ball motion used the same layout for all the balls, so how much static weight difference was actually tested?

A 2011 follow found that "while static weights do have a minimal effect on bowling ball motion within the current window, our research data and analysis shows that having no limit can have a negative effect on ball motion."
Important to note this in his article:
I’ve looked at a lot of hypothetical scenarios around these newly-proposed static imbalance limits, and here’s what I’ve found...
He has no data, just conjecture.
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