150 Land
Moderator: Moderators
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
150 Land
Remember when YOU were stuck at “150” and didn’t know WHAT you were going to have to do to increase your pin count?!
At 61, returning to the sport after 29 years (never much of a bowler “Pro” even then), I’m trying to figure out what it will take to bring me up into the 200’s, consistently.
Naturally, a “new ball” becomes the focal point: thus the other thread I started, about the Hammer Black Widow Legend, that I’d like to own!
But I recognize that there are approach and presentation factors to tweak, and being able to apply those things correctly, by being able to “read” the lane correctly as well.
What are some of the changes that YOU made, back when YOU were living in “150 land,” that moved YOU into the world of the consistent “200’s?”
At 61, returning to the sport after 29 years (never much of a bowler “Pro” even then), I’m trying to figure out what it will take to bring me up into the 200’s, consistently.
Naturally, a “new ball” becomes the focal point: thus the other thread I started, about the Hammer Black Widow Legend, that I’d like to own!
But I recognize that there are approach and presentation factors to tweak, and being able to apply those things correctly, by being able to “read” the lane correctly as well.
What are some of the changes that YOU made, back when YOU were living in “150 land,” that moved YOU into the world of the consistent “200’s?”
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: August 1st, 2010, 1:45 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/8" x 1/2" up
- Speed: 16 mph @ foul line
- Rev Rate: 230
- Axis Tilt: 20
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Location: Florence, Ky
Re: 150 Land
There isn't a new ball that will get you in the 200's consistently.soupy1957 wrote:Remember when YOU were stuck at “150” and didn’t know WHAT you were going to have to do to increase your pin count?!
At 61, returning to the sport after 29 years (never much of a bowler “Pro” even then), I’m trying to figure out what it will take to bring me up into the 200’s, consistently.
Naturally, a “new ball” becomes the focal point: thus the other thread I started, about the Hammer Black Widow Legend, that I’d like to own!
Find a qualified coach........lessons....lesssons...lessons.
Coaching overall has improved just as much if not more than ball technology in the last 29 years.
Far too often people buy bowling balls looking for the magical ball.
The magic is in solid fundamentals and learning how to take advantage of the typical house shot for your style of play.
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: 150 Land
What do “coaches” cost these days? Are they likely to be readily available? Is there a resource (list) somewhere?
I agree!!
I agree!!
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 1440
- Joined: August 1st, 2010, 1:45 pm
- Positive Axis Point: 5 1/8" x 1/2" up
- Speed: 16 mph @ foul line
- Rev Rate: 230
- Axis Tilt: 20
- Axis Rotation: 50
- Location: Florence, Ky
Re: 150 Land
https://webapps.bowl.com/USBCFindA/Home/Coach" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-JMerrell
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
"Simplify the Motion.....Maximize the Results"
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3432
- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
- Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: 150 Land
Along with the coaching, practice, practice, practice. -- JohnP
Re: 150 Land
Soupy,
A few tidbits
Improving your overall fitness will be a vital foundation in your bowling pyramid.
Remembering the aphorism, "If you always do what you always do, you always get what you always get.
Once you find and engage the services of a good instructor, and changes ensue, remember things may feel strange. To improve, you'll most likely have to leave your comfort zone.
As you learn, focus on the process and technique.
Become a very good spare shooter, that is the mark of a very good bowler, don't throw away pins. Hone your accuracy.
Be able to hit every pin spot and pin gap, Rolf Gauger's 13 points of contact
Learn to trust your eyes.
Take care
A few tidbits
Improving your overall fitness will be a vital foundation in your bowling pyramid.
Remembering the aphorism, "If you always do what you always do, you always get what you always get.
Once you find and engage the services of a good instructor, and changes ensue, remember things may feel strange. To improve, you'll most likely have to leave your comfort zone.
As you learn, focus on the process and technique.
Become a very good spare shooter, that is the mark of a very good bowler, don't throw away pins. Hone your accuracy.
Be able to hit every pin spot and pin gap, Rolf Gauger's 13 points of contact
Learn to trust your eyes.
Take care
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
- EricHartwell
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 4080
- Joined: April 5th, 2011, 12:24 am
- Positive Axis Point: 4-3/4" and 1/2"up
- Speed: 16 off hand
- Rev Rate: 330
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Radical Tremendous, EVO solid, Hammer Obsession
- Medium Oil Ball: EVO pearl, True Motion, Columbia Command, DV8 Intimidator
- Light Oil Ball: Blue Hammer
- Location: Michigan
Re: 150 Land
Spare shooting is what got me to 200. Rolling a clean game it only takes is a couple of strikes and you are there.
This ties directly into the advice already given, practice, practice, practice. Add a good coach to a practice routine so you aren't practicing bad habits.
My average didn't jump from 150 to 200. When I started bowling I broke in at 134, then came 150, 170,180,190 then I finally hit 200. I did not have coaching other than the guys I was bowling with. Setting realistic goals helps to keep from getting discouraged. Starting at 150 I bould set a goal of 170. Once you consistantly hit 170 then bump it up higher.
Learning the game is a journey and takes time. Overnight results are rarely achieved.
This ties directly into the advice already given, practice, practice, practice. Add a good coach to a practice routine so you aren't practicing bad habits.
My average didn't jump from 150 to 200. When I started bowling I broke in at 134, then came 150, 170,180,190 then I finally hit 200. I did not have coaching other than the guys I was bowling with. Setting realistic goals helps to keep from getting discouraged. Starting at 150 I bould set a goal of 170. Once you consistantly hit 170 then bump it up higher.
Learning the game is a journey and takes time. Overnight results are rarely achieved.
Eric Hartwell
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
Right Handed
PAP 4.75" up 1/2"
45* rotation
12* tilt
330 rev rate
16 mph off hand
- imagonman
- Member
- Posts: 126
- Joined: January 21st, 2017, 5:18 pm
- Preferred Company: Brunswick
- Location: Cleveland Ohio
Re: 150 Land
EricHartwell wrote:Spare shooting is what got me to 200. Rolling a clean game it only takes is a couple of strikes and you are there.
This ties directly into the advice already given, practice, practice, practice. Add a good coach to a practice routine so you aren't practicing bad habits.
My average didn't jump from 150 to 200. When I started bowling I broke in at 134, then came 150, 170,180,190 then I finally hit 200. I did not have coaching other than the guys I was bowling with. Setting realistic goals helps to keep from getting discouraged. Starting at 150 I bould set a goal of 170. Once you consistantly hit 170 then bump it up higher.
Learning the game is a journey and takes time. Overnight results are rarely achieved.
Yeah what John P. & Eric said! Practice x50! BUT one must know what to practice. You will not immediately jump 50 pins in avg. , think baby steps. Don't remember 150, that was probably @ age 12 or so, 57 now.
I, like you took off 25+ yrs. totally away until fall of 2016. Boy did things change!!!! I left back then in 1991 w/ a 225 avg. so the fundamentals that were honed back then were still there, just had to re-discover them. But back to the past..... by getting my game analyzed w/ good coaching, nothing too involved, and working on those few points avg. went from 180-225 in a few yrs. The higher you go the harder adding 10 pins becomes. From where you are now I'd venture to say that a couple of adjustments to technique will probably get you 15 pins pretty quickly. Then level out a while. That's the way it goes, in plateaus. The next 10 pins or so after that will be working a different skill set and so on.......Basically have a couple of things that need fixing, mastering those thru hours of practice to achieve consistent repeatability and so forth.
Work on technically sound fundamentals, engrain them & move up to the next level.
Re: 150 Land
It is a different game from 30 years ago.
Most house shots are easy.
Learn the game as if you are starting to bowl. Forget what you knew.
With a half decent ball, an agile mind and and some basic hand eye coordination you should get to 200.
Most house shots are easy.
Learn the game as if you are starting to bowl. Forget what you knew.
With a half decent ball, an agile mind and and some basic hand eye coordination you should get to 200.
"You see only what you look for; you recognize only what you know"
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar
http://www.tasankar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are many worlds out there. Some of them can be accessed through reading. Encourage reading - T.A. Sankar
http://www.tasankar.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: 150 Land
Here’s the current “state of affairs:”
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My pin count has been hovering around 175 pretty consistantly lately (fingers crossed).
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My pin count has been hovering around 175 pretty consistantly lately (fingers crossed).
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 3432
- Joined: January 31st, 2010, 1:04 am
- Positive Axis Point: 15 15/16 x 3/16
- Speed: 13.5 (Qubica)
- Axis Tilt: 13
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Location: Hawesville KY/Tell City IN
Re: 150 Land
I started bowling in an AJBC league in 1962, averaged 126 that first season. Second season, averaged 156 and won the Most Improved Bowler belt buckle. Graduated HS and started in ABC leagues, during college I averaged 165 - 170 bowling one league, no money to practice. After college I didn't bowl for about 2 years, then a friend asked me to bowl in a summer league. I did and averaged again 165 - 170. Then I got the "bug" and also had the money to practice. Over the next three years I moved to 180, 190, and finally in the "73 - 74 season 200 even. I was bowling three leagues and about 20 practice games a week. All of this was using rubber and plastic balls on lacquer coated lanes with only a little coaching from friends. That's why I believe so strongly in practice. -- JohnP
Re: 150 Land
Soupy, I just viewed your videos.
If you study the set of videos via the wiki Kegel Teen Masters tips, you are going to see several obvious areas of concern. Address those issues, the first one being your ball placement. View those videos try to follow those lessons and drills.
Also check out the tips for creating video on the wiki. You need a view from the rear.
With the videos, capture your ENTIRE body, head to feet.
My original reason for checking back in was to see if anyone mentioned ascertaining the optimum ball weight and grip for you.
How relaxed is your hand, fingers and thumb. If there is tension, that is a red flag.
The Valhala of bowling grips is one where you hold the ball like a baby bird, with only enough pressure to feel the heartbeat. That nirvana of fit, will allow a freer swing and a clean release. That feeling of the ball releasing you, not vice versa.
Bad ball fit is like try to drive with a foot on the gas and a foot on the brakes at the same time.
As for being overweight, while it's true that trimming some pounds will be a great idea, I know of people much heavier and rotund than you, that have averaged 220 and up in the urethane era, that would be 235 and up today.
So yes, fitness, CORE and legs, recall Juha's observation in the ETBF VIDEO, about the Asian women bowler's optimum use of their bodies.
Add Ondars ETT drill, I will attach a reference here in a bit.
In essence that drill is similar to the 13 points of contact I mentioned.
Here is some GOLDEN advice from Jim Merrell
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12176&hilit=ETT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you study the set of videos via the wiki Kegel Teen Masters tips, you are going to see several obvious areas of concern. Address those issues, the first one being your ball placement. View those videos try to follow those lessons and drills.
Also check out the tips for creating video on the wiki. You need a view from the rear.
With the videos, capture your ENTIRE body, head to feet.
My original reason for checking back in was to see if anyone mentioned ascertaining the optimum ball weight and grip for you.
How relaxed is your hand, fingers and thumb. If there is tension, that is a red flag.
The Valhala of bowling grips is one where you hold the ball like a baby bird, with only enough pressure to feel the heartbeat. That nirvana of fit, will allow a freer swing and a clean release. That feeling of the ball releasing you, not vice versa.
Bad ball fit is like try to drive with a foot on the gas and a foot on the brakes at the same time.
As for being overweight, while it's true that trimming some pounds will be a great idea, I know of people much heavier and rotund than you, that have averaged 220 and up in the urethane era, that would be 235 and up today.
So yes, fitness, CORE and legs, recall Juha's observation in the ETBF VIDEO, about the Asian women bowler's optimum use of their bodies.
Add Ondars ETT drill, I will attach a reference here in a bit.
In essence that drill is similar to the 13 points of contact I mentioned.
Here is some GOLDEN advice from Jim Merrell
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12176&hilit=ETT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: 150 Land
A baby bird, eh?! Hmmmmmmmmmmkajmk wrote:...............The Valhala of bowling grips is one where you hold the ball like a baby bird, with only enough pressure to feel the heartbeat..........
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc
Re: 150 Land
I absolutely agree with KAJMK. I have told bowlers for a long time that the amount of pressure needed to hold a ball is the same as holding a newly hatched chick. Don't squeeze a new chick and don't squeeze a ball. Don' t think about when the ball will leave your hand. The ball will leave your hand based on the pitches of the holes and the speed of the ball during the forward swing.soupy1957 wrote:
A baby bird, eh?! Hmmmmmmmmmm
Re: 150 Land
Very well put, Jim.JimH wrote: I absolutely agree with KAJMK. I have told bowlers for a long time that the amount of pressure needed to hold a ball is the same as holding a newly hatched chick. Don't squeeze a new chick and don't squeeze a ball. Don' t think about when the ball will leave your hand. The ball will leave your hand based on the pitches of the holes and the speed of the ball during the forward swing.
I first heard that analogy on Don Johnson's VHS tape (now available on the wiki, I believe).
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index. ... le=Videoed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The heartbeat part, I heard from Gary Parson's .
I can tell you from experience how shocked I was at the difference when I listened to the PSO instruct me during my test rolls of the ball he drilled up for me. Clean release, more rpms. Part of Billy Welu's wisdom, "Trust is a must, or your game is a bust".
When you "sense" the release, it has actually happened milliseconds beforehand. Sort of analogous to driving a car with one foot on the gas and the other on the brake.
Rolf Gauger wrote about the perception of the act, lagging behind the event.
That relaxed grip is like shaving with a very sharp razor ...
May all beings everywhere be happy and free,
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life
contribute in some way to that happiness
and to that freedom for all.
John
- stevespo
- Member
- Posts: 584
- Joined: August 11th, 2014, 8:07 pm
- THS Average: 225
- Positive Axis Point: 5.75" x + 3/8"
- Speed: 17+ off hand (camera)
- Rev Rate: 375
- Axis Tilt: 12
- Axis Rotation: 45
- Heavy Oil Ball: Phaze II, Altered Reality
- Medium Oil Ball: IQ Tour Nano, Zen, Phase III
- Light Oil Ball: Electrify Pearl
Re: 150 Land
After several years of hovering around 150, my teammate increased his average from 147 to 165 this year, with much of that happening in the last few months of the season. He finished the year with a personal best game/series (249/636).
- Regular practice. Rolling sport on weekends and working on consistency. Not focusing on scoring!
- Emphasis on making spares, big improvement going straight at corner pins.
- Improved mental game. Doesn't let small mistakes become big distraction.
- Smart adjustments during transition. Effective moves w/feet and target, speed changes, hand position.
- Added a 2nd reactive ball, different shape (used Black Widow solid to compliment Cyclone)
As well as he's been bowling, I see 180+, possibly even 190+ well within reach next year if he keeps up the hard work and improves consistency.
Steve
- Regular practice. Rolling sport on weekends and working on consistency. Not focusing on scoring!
- Emphasis on making spares, big improvement going straight at corner pins.
- Improved mental game. Doesn't let small mistakes become big distraction.
- Smart adjustments during transition. Effective moves w/feet and target, speed changes, hand position.
- Added a 2nd reactive ball, different shape (used Black Widow solid to compliment Cyclone)
As well as he's been bowling, I see 180+, possibly even 190+ well within reach next year if he keeps up the hard work and improves consistency.
Steve
16 mph (14-14.5 on monitor), 375 rpm, PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up, AT: 12*, AR: 45*
- JJakobsen
- Certified Coach
- Posts: 283
- Joined: March 10th, 2013, 9:59 pm
- Sport Average: 180
- Positive Axis Point: 3 1/2 right, 1 1/2 up
- Speed: 15.5 downlane
- Rev Rate: 450
- Axis Tilt: 0
- Axis Rotation: 30
- Heavy Oil Ball: Storm Marvel Pearl
- Medium Oil Ball: Brunswick Inferno
- Light Oil Ball: Storm Timeless
- Preferred Company: 900 Global
- Location: Svolvær, Lofoten, Norway
Re: 150 Land
Averaging 200 and being a house shot hero isn't the same. One takes time practicing, the other takes time playing.Dax wrote:It is a different game from 30 years ago.
Most house shots are easy.
Learn the game as if you are starting to bowl. Forget what you knew.
With a half decent ball, an agile mind and and some basic hand eye coordination you should get to 200.
68.2353°N 14.5636°E is where it happens!
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: 150 Land
I’m learning (gradually) how to read the lane; how many boards to move for adjustments, and how often to move. I don’t have those things pegged yet, but I’m trying.
I was reminded recently, that the enjoyment of the game, is more important than the obsession to be good at it.
When I was playing golf with some regularity, I reached a point where, being out on the course and enjoying the beauty of it, and the beauty of the day, was FAR more important than my score. That said, I would put my scorecard in my back pocket, and not even fill it out! Just enjoying the “play” gave me more joy than the “score” EVER did!!
Makes me think..........I wonder if I could turn off the scoreboard in bowling, and just bowl........without having to have my “score” constantly in front of me, or on display for the whole Alley to see?!
I sorta miss the old days, when your scoring was on paper, and only YOU knew what it was (for the most part)!
I was reminded recently, that the enjoyment of the game, is more important than the obsession to be good at it.
When I was playing golf with some regularity, I reached a point where, being out on the course and enjoying the beauty of it, and the beauty of the day, was FAR more important than my score. That said, I would put my scorecard in my back pocket, and not even fill it out! Just enjoying the “play” gave me more joy than the “score” EVER did!!
Makes me think..........I wonder if I could turn off the scoreboard in bowling, and just bowl........without having to have my “score” constantly in front of me, or on display for the whole Alley to see?!
I sorta miss the old days, when your scoring was on paper, and only YOU knew what it was (for the most part)!
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc
-
- Trusted Source
- Posts: 1386
- Joined: December 14th, 2014, 3:08 am
- Preferred Company: Radical
- Location: San Juan, PR
Re: 150 Land
You can ask for the scoreboard to be turned off when you are practicing. I do often when coaching youth so they can forget about scoring and focus on execution.
Silver Level Coach
Kegel KCMP1 and KCMP2 Completed /Approved Exam
Kegel KCMP3 Completed
Kegel Certified Pro Shop Operator
Free agent
Kegel KCMP1 and KCMP2 Completed /Approved Exam
Kegel KCMP3 Completed
Kegel Certified Pro Shop Operator
Free agent
- soupy1957
- Member
- Posts: 123
- Joined: April 8th, 2018, 8:50 am
- Preferred Company: Storm
- Location: Connecticut
Re: 150 Land
That makes perfect sense if I was being coached at the time; but when I’m paying for the games, I like to use the scores to tell me how much I’m paying!TonyPR wrote:You can ask for the scoreboard to be turned off when you are practicing. I do often when coaching youth so they can forget about scoring and focus on execution.
Unlike a golf course, When you get to the 18th hole, you know it!
“Perfection is only a delusion; a lack of personality!” - sdc