Roll over thumb hole

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steve s
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Roll over thumb hole

Post by steve s »

Why does a person roll over the thumb hole on release..?
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by 44boyd »

Ball is drilled wrong for the way “you” release the ball.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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Finger pitch or thumb? We did a performance pitch change to his fingers so he could stay behind the ball easier...could the problem be his hand position at time of release? Like a full roller...
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by 44boyd »

For his PAP and the way he is rolling the ball, it’s layed out wrong. The change in fit could have changed his release causing a new PAP.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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steve s wrote:Why does a person roll over the thumb hole on release..?
There are a lot of different factors that can cause you to roll over the thumb hole. A lot of them are caused by fit and/or hand/wrist position at release, with the rest caused by layout.

If your rolling over the thumb hole initially, I would look at your release first (Double check fit also). Once eliminated then look at layout.


Dick Ritiger Advice:
Ball rolling over the thumb hole

If your ball is rolling over the thumbhole there are some things that you can do that might help.

First, you might be a full roller who needs the track to move between the thumb and finger holes...if that is the case, what I offer for advice may not work. If you are naturally a semi-roller, this should do the trick.

Players typically hit the thumb because they turn the ball too early and that moves the track up and onto the thumb hole. Try the following:

1. Start with your hand in a position that places it directly under the ball in your stance. Try to maintain that hand position throughout the swing and release.

2. Another thought can be that the heel of your hand passes near your ankle at the release point. By keeping the heel of the hand near the sliding ankle the hand will stay behind the ball better.

3. Releasing the thumb late also causes the ball to track over the thumb. Targeting a little closer to the foul line (try the dot area at seven feet) will often help get the release better.

4. Make sure you have light pressure on the thumb hole to aid in getting the thumb out earlier and moving the track outside the thumb.

5. In all cases you must exaggerate the 'feeling' to actually get the result.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by Jlang25 »

Is it a negative thing to roll over the thumb hole? I got 2 balls redrilled and I really like the reaction but I hit the thumb hole with nearly every rotation until the ball hits friction and turns the corner.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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Yes, you’re not getting the full potential of your ball.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by Rockmd »

Can you drill a weight hole to counter act and pull the oil line/roll away from the thumb or fingers? If so where?
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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You need to get with your PSO and show them how you throw it. More than likely a plug and drill.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by gunso »

Pete Weber used to roll over his thumbhole and not worry too much about it. Jesper Svenson rolls over his fingerholes and it doesn't seem to stop him from having loads of pba titles at a young age.

I'd suggest not worrying about too much and just work on getting better instead. In time it will probably come off the thumbhole if you work on your game. I spent a whole lot of time worrying on fixing my roll and rarely got any better. Stopped worrying about it and my average went up 30 the last 2 years and I've never been closer to no rolling over my fingerholes by stopping to fixate on the problem
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JimH »

gunso wrote:I'd suggest not worrying about too much and just work on getting better instead. In time it will probably come off the thumbhole if you work on your game. I spent a whole lot of time worrying on fixing my roll and rarely got any better. Stopped worrying about it and my average went up 30 the last 2 years and I've never been closer to no rolling over my fingerholes by stopping to fixate on the problem
I agree. Some years ago a bowler asked me what he was doing wrong because the ball was rolling over the thumb hole. He just got his new ball and was practicing with it for the first time. I noticed that he was getting strike after strike but he was concerned about the ball rolling over the thumb hole. Don't worry about a problem that does not exist.

In fairness to the driller it was a ball that produced a lot of flare and at that time flare was something few people were aware of.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by Jlang25 »

44boyd wrote:You need to get with your PSO and show them how you throw it. More than likely a plug and drill.
Thanks, I cannot drill a weight hole since I'm throwing with no thumb. I am going to try a few different releases to see if I can find a comfortable release that stops me from tracking over the thumb hole. If I cannot find one then I will probably go back and get the thumb hole offset.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JohnP »

If you never use your thumb you don't have a thumb hole, you have a balance hole and you can put it anywhere so long as the static weights are legal. Or you don't even need to have a third hole so long as the static weights are legal without one. -- JohnP
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JJakobsen »

Isn't the rule so that if you don't use the thumb hole and have a weight hole, its illegal? I wish we had that here in Norway, so many who do this here.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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JJakobsen wrote:Isn't the rule so that if you don't use the thumb hole and have a weight hole, its illegal? I wish we had that here in Norway, so many who do this here.
The ETBF rules are rules are a copy of rhe USBC rules, so unless the Norwegian Federation has dropped out of the ETBF the rule applies. The rules concerning holes are up to 5 holes for gripping purposes, up to 1 vent hole for each gripping hole, and 1 hole for weight adjustment. Some officials believe a gripping hole that is not used but is covered is a valid gripping hole, other officials believe a gripping hole must have a finger or thumb in it. I suggest the Norwegian Federation contact the ETBF for a decision.
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

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JohnP wrote:If you never use your thumb you don't have a thumb hole, you have a balance hole and you can put it anywhere so long as the static weights are legal. Or you don't even need to have a third hole so long as the static weights are legal without one. -- JohnP
Good point. I kept the "thumb hole" in case I wanted to throw one handed again, I need to do more research on 2 handed layouts to see what will work best for my game. Perhaps I can find a PRO around me that works with no thumb bowlers regularly
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JJakobsen »

JimH wrote: The ETBF rules are rules are a copy of rhe USBC rules, so unless the Norwegian Federation has dropped out of the ETBF the rule applies. The rules concerning holes are up to 5 holes for gripping purposes, up to 1 vent hole for each gripping hole, and 1 hole for weight adjustment. Some officials believe a gripping hole that is not used but is covered is a valid gripping hole, other officials believe a gripping hole must have a finger or thumb in it. I suggest the Norwegian Federation contact the ETBF for a decision.
Hypothetically, a player who got a thumb hole without a slug (Switch-Grip) playing two-finger, is he or is he not breaking the rules by playing two-finger IF he is using a ball that also has a balance hole?
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JJakobsen »

3.26.1 Inntil 5 hull eller fordypninger som benyttes til å gripe kulen, og skal begrenses til ett hull
for hver finger og ett for tommelen. Spilleren må ikke benytte alle hullene til alle slag,
men må kunne vise at han er i stand til å bruke alle hullene samtidig med samme hånd.
Tommelhull som ikke er i bruk regnes som balansehull.
Up to 5 holes or indentations that are used to grip the ball, and limited to one per finger and one for the thumb. The player does not have to use all holes for all shots, but has to show that he can use all holes with one hand.
Thumb holes not in use are counted as balance holes.

So, the first two sentences says you don't have to use all holes if you don't want to, but you have to be able to do so if need be. But then it says that a thumb hole that is not in use is counted as a balance hole, which you can only have one of.

This is even more confusing...
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JohnP »

The rules for a player that wants to use a ball both thumbless and using a thumb are that the static weights must be legal both based on a grip center between the fingers (for when used thumbless) and on a grip center as for a ball used only while using the thumb. It's tricky to achieve this, I've done it a few times for players that want to use a plastic ball for strikes thumbless and spares using their thumbs. I wouldn't recommend trying to make it legal both ways for a ball with a dynamic core. If USBC does change the static weight limits to 3 oz for all it will be much easier to achieve. -- JohnP
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Re: Roll over thumb hole

Post by JJakobsen »

That would be true on a ball without a balance hole, but when you got a balance hole, and the thumb hole counts as a balance hole, you got two balance holes, according to NBFs rules. Which means you are breaking them? Or am I off here?
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